Basic ways to get rid of bad habits.

[HyperSuperSonictheHedgehog]

Phew good. I depend on that dodge.

Which is why playing without dodges and now specials is just INSANE!!!!!!
But if it kills bad habits, I'm all for it.

 

[Napilopez]

Ouch, that table really speaks for itself huh?

The ideas are good... I've already started playing with no shield. But no B moves? Darn.

1)The main problem I have with using HA as a recovery move is its post lag. Generally when you use it, and go to hit the opponent, you'll miss, and be punished with the UNBEARABLE post lag. Drives me insane.

2) And I'm seriously dependent on dropping a spring on my opponents head and dairing down. I don't feel safe going down any other way. It just takes too long. But, if you can recommend another safe way to get down, I'd be happy to use that.

3) I'm really behind on my terminology. Can someone remind me what a spotdodge is? I'm sure I've seen it, but I just can't remember...

4) And I saw on Sonic's Tips/Gimps/Non Obvious Moves thread a while ago saying its possible to cancel Sonic's Fsmash. You have to "miss the A button completly?" What does that even mean? Has anyone been able to do it? I've been trying, but I can't get it...

5) PS. Best Kill move is soooo up throw, spring jump from ground and uair. Unfortunatly, they go too high at high percentages...

1) Simply put, you shouldnt be missing with homing attack. You are only allowed to miss if you miss someone in the air, and can't be punished for it =P. Learn how the homing attack works, its mechanics and tracking properties. You should miss very rarely.

2) I have no problem with that habit, because it simply works. Just be smart about it. When above the main stage, you should try to drop the spring juuusttt as you are reaching your opponent in your downwards movement. That allows you to hit them without them being able to dodge the spring and grab you out of your dair. It so simple yet it works so often.

3) I guess they already answered that for you =P

4) LOL. Sorry man, that's just a joke we had here on the Sonic boards. Its literally what it says. You aren't actually cancelling the attack animation, you simply never actually do the fsmash because you "miss the A button completely" =P

5) Use it sparingly, as opponents will DI out of it. But if you mix up your throws alot, opponents might DI incorrectly. However, I must admit... you'd be surprised at how many people don't DI/barely DI out of it at high level play... Spring to bair is nice as well.

 

[HyperSuperSonictheHedgehog]

Hehe cool. I guess that the best way to use Homing Attack is when people just don't expect it. Personally, its cool to use as a wall of pain, combined with f air. But I'm guessing wall of pain doesn't work to well on you guys on smashboards? Ah well.

 

[Napilopez]

Hehe cool. I guess that the best way to use Homing Attack is when people just don't expect it. Personally, its cool to use as a wall of pain, combined with f air. But I'm guessing wall of pain doesn't work to well on you guys on smashboards? Ah well.

HAve you watched SonicOrochi's Sonic guide "lightspeed"? It has a great guide to the homing attack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QMRTsGfy0c

Start from 6:00 and on.

Basically it says that homing attack always aims to hit the BACK of your opponent, and he clearly demonstrates this. Homing attack is much more effective when your opponent is moving away. Unless your opponent is moving towards you following the homing attacks trajectory, such as from a diagonal angle, moving towards you from offstage when you are below. It gives you a general Idea of the Homing Attack's tracking range.

HA works so well to punished attacks with ending lag if you ain the air and cant get on the ground quick enough for a grab. Remember to mix up between cancelling it and not cancelling it.

 

[HyperSuperSonictheHedgehog]

HAve you watched SonicOrochi's Sonic guide "lightspeed"? It has a great guide to the homing attack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QMRTsGfy0c

Start from 6:00 and on.

Basically it says that homing attack always aims to hit the BACK of your opponent, and he clearly demonstrates this. Homing attack is much more effective when your opponent is moving away. Unless your opponent is moving towards you following the homing attacks trajectory, such as from a diagonal angle, moving towards you from offstage when you are below. It gives you a general Idea of the Homing Attack's tracking range.

HA works so well to punished attacks with ending lag if you ain the air and cant get on the ground quick enough for a grab. Remember to mix up between cancelling it and not cancelling it.

Bah, my internets slow today... I'll watch as soon as I can.

Well, that would explain why I get punished so much. When I'm vsing my brother, who plays as link btw, He never moves. Well, almost never. Instead, he shoots arrows at me. You have to admit, its a smart tactic. I can't shoot back, cause I ain't got no projectiles. So, he forces me to move in. Which means he's got me. Lol luckly for me, Sonic's fast.

But still, even If HA aims for the back of an opponent, that means you shouldn't use it to get back on an edge, right? Because your lower then an opponent, it will aim at the front of an opponent. Which means HA will curve to meet the opponent. The opponent only has to do a sidestep or roll dodge, usually sidestep, and you'll miss. Because your so close to the ground, you'll meet it with lots of "friendly and loving post lag." Which means you'll get whacked. Hard.

And you can cancel it? I didn't know that. I mean, I eventually figured out I could change the direction by taping the control stick in the direction I wanted, then pressing B, but I haven't heard of canceling. What, do you press shield in the middle of it or something?

 

[Napilopez]

Bah, my internets slow today... I'll watch as soon as I can.

1) Well, that would explain why I get punished so much. When I'm vsing my brother, who plays as link btw, He never moves. Well, almost never. Instead, he shoots arrows at me. You have to admit, its a smart tactic. I can't shoot back, cause I ain't got no projectiles. So, he forces me to move in. Which means he's got me. Lol luckly for me, Sonic's fast.

2) But still, even If HA aims for the back of an opponent, that means you shouldn't use it to get back on an edge, right? Because your lower then an opponent, it will aim at the front of an opponent. Which means HA will curve to meet the opponent. The opponent only has to do a sidestep or roll dodge, usually sidestep, and you'll miss. Because your so close to the ground, you'll meet it with lots of "friendly and loving post lag." Which means you'll get whacked. Hard.

3) And you can cancel it? I didn't know that. I mean, I eventually figured out I could change the direction by taping the control stick in the direction I wanted, then pressing B, but I haven't heard of canceling. What, do you press shield in the middle of it or something?

1) Well Sonic pretty much always has to move in against projectiled folks =P. Really though, arrows should be an issue. Use SideB invincibility to get past the first one, the proceed to SDJ(Spin dash jump) and airdodge or whatever you want to get near. Or you can spinshot and then airdodge the likely boomerang or whatever. Honestly though, running and powershielding works perfectly well. And because of sonic's speed, he has less time shoot projectiles at you. You can't really camp Sonic, if played appropriately.

2) I actually love to use HA to get back on stage, and sometimes it can be incredibly useful. To mix things up a bit, I'll homing attack from below the stage when I could normally just spring for some free damage. Of course you can be punished for whiffiing it, but most of the the time, that doesnt happen to me. Again, the issue is that you should be hitting with the homing attack. It travels alot of distance fast and really works perfectly fine for recovery. I'd only recomend it though at lower percents, for risk that you might miss it. But an example of how it could be useful:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV2tn5-ExiE

I know your internet is teh slowz right now, but whenver you can, start at about 1:00. See how he was knocked far away and had already wasted his second jump? Had he not used homing attack, he would have probably been edgeguarded by MKs awesome gimping abilities. So even if he did land with lag, at least it saved him from an early death.

But yea the way I was referring to is recovering from the bottom. I guess I might ahve to show you a vid to explain how useful I find it =P.

3) You can't cancel the move itself, but rather the loading animation. basically one is a quick release, the other is a slower release which gives the homing attack more tracking time, useful if someone spotdodges right away.

 

[HyperSuperSonictheHedgehog]

1) Well Sonic pretty much always has to move in against projectiled folks =P. Really though, arrows should be an issue. Use SideB invincibility to get past the first one, the proceed to SDJ(Spin dash jump) and airdodge or whatever you want to get near. Or you can spinshot and then airdodge the likely boomerang or whatever. Honestly though, running and powershielding works perfectly well. And because of sonic's speed, he has less time shoot projectiles at you. You can't really camp Sonic, if played appropriately.

2) I actually love to use HA to get back on stage, and sometimes it can be incredibly useful. To mix things up a bit, I'll homing attack from below the stage when I could normally just spring for some free damage. Of course you can be punished for whiffiing it, but most of the the time, that doesnt happen to me. Again, the issue is that you should be hitting with the homing attack. It travels alot of distance fast and really works perfectly fine for recovery. I'd only recomend it though at lower percents, for risk that you might miss it. But an example of how it could be useful:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV2tn5-ExiE

I know your internet is teh slowz right now, but whenver you can, start at about 1:00. See how he was knocked far away and had already wasted his second jump? Had he not used homing attack, he would have probably been edgeguarded by MKs awesome gimping abilities. So even if he did land with lag, at least it saved him from an early death.

But yea the way I was referring to is recovering from the bottom. I guess I might ahve to show you a vid to explain how useful I find it =P.

3) You can't cancel the move itself, but rather the loading animation. basically one is a quick release, the other is a slower release which gives the homing attack more tracking time, useful if someone spotdodges right away.

Oh, so thats what you mean by canceling. Yeah, I do that quite often. I should really use it more for mind games.

I hate it when I use up my second jump. I used to do that all the time. Now, I keep a metal record of how many jumps I have left, because the most annoying thing in dying due to no second jump.

Yeah, HA is a really cool move. It would've been cooler if they made it like it was in Sonic 06 though. Instant travel time. Awesome. I love using HA for recovery to, but I prefer to go over their heads.

Its quite cool actually. I vsed my brother with no shield, no dodges, no specials (only for recovery), only A moves.. He smashed me the first few times, but I got better. Then I reversed him using all that. Strangly, I barely used dodge roll at all. And I used specials a lot less. Grabbed and Pivot grabbed a heck of a lot though. The match was much more tipped in my favor. Fact is, If he didn't have Links super powerful KO method, I probably would have beaten him more. I racked him up to 200 percent, and I was only at 100. It was pretty cool, but KOing him was a problem. I think we all really suffer from that, but we'll get it eventually. I'm going to keep practicing though. At least for a week, when I'm no longer dependent on dodging and specials.

I'm downloading the first vid. Its taking its time, but at least I'll have it permanently for reference.

I don't have WI-FI, but a friend of mine does. Maybe I could vs you guys sometime on his, and you can show me how its done... maybe. Lol.

 

[~TBS~]

Oh, so thats what you mean by canceling. Yeah, I do that quite often. I should really use it more for mind games.

I hate it when I use up my second jump. I used to do that all the time. Now, I keep a metal record of how many jumps I have left, because the most annoying thing in dying due to no second jump.

Yeah, HA is a really cool move. It would've been cooler if they made it like it was in Sonic 06 though. Instant travel time. Awesome. I love using HA for recovery to, but I prefer to go over their heads.

Its quite cool actually. I vsed my brother with no shield, no dodges, no specials (only for recovery), only A moves.. He smashed me the first few times, but I got better. Then I reversed him using all that. Strangly, I barely used dodge roll at all. And I used specials a lot less. Grabbed and Pivot grabbed a heck of a lot though. The match was much more tipped in my favor. Fact is, If he didn't have Links super powerful KO method, I probably would have beaten him more. I racked him up to 200 percent, and I was only at 100. It was pretty cool, but KOing him was a problem. I think we all really suffer from that, but we'll get it eventually. I'm going to keep practicing though. At least for a week, when I'm no longer dependent on dodging and specials.

I'm downloading the first vid. Its taking its time, but at least I'll have it permanently for reference.

I don't have WI-FI, but a friend of mine does. Maybe I could vs you guys sometime on his, and you can show me how its done... maybe. Lol.

you know your stuff.

 

[da K.I.D.]

if you use HA and dont hit anything else, and than use HA again and mash the b button youll notice a significant difference in the startup time.

when you really need a kill i can give you a method that is very effective when used sparingly
run right at him,
he shields,
you run past him and stop (the stopping animation is very short)
forward smash back toward teh opponent
he lets shield down thinking that you cant attack since you just ran behind him, and gets hit with forward smash

 

[~TBS~]

hey K.I.D., is it true about some people leaving? I haven't been on here alot, so i dont know whats going on...

 

[SonicX580]

hey K.I.D., is it true about some people leaving? I haven't been on here alot, so i dont know whats going on...

I don't know if it's true but I heard that Boxob is leaving.

 

[Tenki]

hey K.I.D., is it true about some people leaving? I haven't been on here alot, so i dont know whats going on...

Umby got fed up by the spam/idiocy, memphis got fed up by newbs, and boxob is playing diddy for a bit.

aside from the diddy thing, I'm near that point, too.

I kind of liked being able to talk about things and people actually knew what I was talking about.

now it's like "lol wut asc? cool i think it might be useful"

...

......

 

[Chis]

Umby got fed up by the spam/idiocy, memphis got fed up by newbs, and boxob is playing diddy for a bit.

aside from the diddy thing, I'm near that point, too.

I kind of liked being able to talk about things and people actually knew what I was talking about.

now it's like "lol wut asc? cool i think it might be useful"

...

......

Link boards

 

[Tenki]

it really is starting to look like that.

 

[the ricemaker]

Sigh....

Umby left.
Memphis might come back. When all the current noobs learn a bit.
Boxob just said he's gonna use Diddy now. He's still gonna post here. He has too many fans here. He can't post in the diddy forums. They don't idolize him like everyone here does.
Tenki, I can undertsand you not contributing anymore, but to stop posting here? If that happens, I'll move to the Shiek/ZSS boards.

 

[ROOOOY!]

I find myself coming here and repeating the same things every day.
I know there's not much to discuss, because Brawl's shallow as hell, but c'mon.
It's not like I even play Brawl anymore, it's gone past the stage of bearable.
Whut is with this mass exodus D:

 

[Tenki]

I find myself coming here and repeating the same things every day.
I know there's not much to discuss, because Brawl's shallow as hell, but c'mon.
It's not like I even play Brawl anymore, it's gone past the stage of bearable.
Whut is with this mass exodus D:

See, the reason why alot of us jumped on the spam bandwagon was because there really wasn't much stuff to discuss that wasn't answered by some old thread already (Sonic traits/mechanics kinda questions). So we just came in here to socialize, with some random useful threads here and there about becoming better players by stepping up our playstyles, or matchup discussions.

At the least, I could talk about something that we all supposedly know about/were in the stickies, and we'd be all cool with it and be like "oh, I haven't tried that, maybe it's useful" or at least the people reading know what we're talking about.

Now, it feels like if I want to talk about something like that, I'll have to explain it all over again, and that's just dumb.

 

[Napilopez]

Yeah, HA is a really cool move. It would've been cooler if they made it like it was in Sonic 06 though. Instant travel time.

If anything, it should be like it was in SA2. Super quick travel, always tracking your enemy, and totally spammable with non existant lag XD.

 

[the ricemaker]

hey I just developed a theory of a sort.

What if all of the current Sonic mains (that knows what's what around here) just left this board?
And then noobs would come here, and then Sonic's metagame would just start over. Maybe it would even be different then the way we play now.

 

[Tenki]

hey I just developed a theory of a sort.

What if all of the current Sonic mains (that knows what's what around here) just left this board?
And then noobs would come here, and then Sonic's metagame would just start over. Maybe it would even be different then the way we play now.

I'd kill the new Tenki.

But I'd still like to have a boards or somewhere that I could bounce ideas against the people who do know things.

 

[Napilopez]

I'd kill the new Tenki.

But I'd still like to have a boards or somewhere that I could bounce ideas against the people who do know things.

We should have our own Sonic Back Room, where only knowledgeable Sonics who have glimpsed the steak are allowed. Not steak-less wannabes. =P No offense.

EDIT:

Anyways yeah, it's hard sometimes advancing the metagame when we have to backtrack so often with the introduction of people who won't do research for themselves. I don't mind helping, but it does get tough sometimes. I wish there was like some sort of code that allowed people new to Sonic only be able to read the stickies. And not until they have read everything there can they participate in actual discussion =P.

 

[Camalange]

We should have our own Sonic Back Room, where only knowledgeable Sonics who have glimpsed the steak are allowed. Not steak-less wannabes. =P No offense.

EDIT:

Anyways yeah, it's hard sometimes advancing the metagame when we have to backtrack so often with the introduction of people who won't do research for themselves. I don't mind helping, but it does get tough sometimes. I wish there was like some sort of code that allowed people new to Sonic only be able to read the stickies. And not until they have read everything there can they participate in actual discussion =P.

BRAINWASHING? But we could always just paste a crap load of stickied links and tell them all to read, and if they keep posting nonsensical things or don't get what we're talking about, don't respond.

 

[the ricemaker]

We should have our own Sonic Back Room, where only knowledgeable Sonics who have glimpsed the steak are allowed. Not steak-less wannabes. =P No offense.

EDIT:

Anyways yeah, it's hard sometimes advancing the metagame when we have to backtrack so often with the introduction of people who won't do research for themselves. I don't mind helping, but it does get tough sometimes. I wish there was like some sort of code that allowed people new to Sonic only be able to read the stickies. And not until they have read everything there can they participate in actual discussion =P.

My sentiments exactly. It also got worse. We'd b as$holes to all of the noobs, in this, we digressed even further. I look back and think, "wow I'm a dick."
Don't worry though, I still hunt noobs.

 

[aeghrur]

So guys, anything else I should add? :O

 

[Tenki]

Not using the shield button is fine (if you mean avoiding 'auto' dodging), but don't neglect shield. Shield is really really good.

 

[HyperSuperSonictheHedgehog]

you know your stuff.

Lol, thanks. I appreciate that.

I have to agree with some of the other stuff on the board though. Like I said, I haven't been here long, but I can already tell that you guys dislike noobs, simply because they don't think when they speak, like saying they can pwn with Sonic just cause of his speed, and because they don't research information they should before asking questions. I guess you guys just get sick of answering the same questions over and over.

But still, in the interest of purely just being nice, don't you think we should still try to be nice and not say stuff about them in such mean way no matter the temptation. Otherwise, we might find we're always angry, and lose all the fun brawl has to offer. I agree with the fact that they should read some of the threads first up, and ask questions later, its only common sense.

I can't image being able to post anything new, that we don't already know about. Everyone seems to have covered every possible factor of Sonic's moves, obvious of non-obvious, minus some unpredictable things, like ASC's priority.

Which means the only thing left to post is really strategies, not about character match-ups, but against the type of players we encounter. There's a lot of those, which I'm not sure that we've covered. Strategies to deal with people like projectile spammers, who hug the edges of places, and play defensively, or offensive players who use a combination of advance techniques, specifically for their character.

There's still a lot to talk about and experience, but most of what we post is just techniques, which we all know by now, and character matchups, which is still useful as a starting basis. We should share what kinds of players we have versed, and what tactics they use against us, so we can come up with counter tactics. There are a lot of different playstyles, especially for 35 characters.

Just a suggestion though.

PS. @napilopez

Don't forget SA 2 HA couldn't go up, just down, and still wasn't as quick as Sonic 06. In Sonic 06, I HA towards Egg Cerbus' tail, and actually missed. What was funny about that was, I kept going till I hit the wall on the other side of the arena, which was instant. I've never seen anything move that fast. On the downside, it was a bit laggy, but we can use a Sonic and the Secret Rings upgrade on it lol.

 

[Tenki]

Lol, thanks. I appreciate that.

{1} I have to agree with some of the other stuff on the board though. Like I said, I haven't been here long, but I can already tell that you guys dislike noobs, simply because they don't think when they speak, like saying they can pwn with Sonic just cause of his speed, and because they don't research information they should before asking questions. I guess you guys just get sick of answering the same questions over and over.

{2} But still, in the interest of purely just being nice, don't you think we should still try to be nice and not say stuff about them in such mean way no matter the temptation. Otherwise, we might find we're always angry, and lose all the fun brawl has to offer. I agree with the fact that they should read some of the threads first up, and ask questions later, its only common sense.

I can't image being able to post anything new, that we don't already know about. Everyone seems to have covered every possible factor of Sonic's moves, obvious of non-obvious, minus some unpredictable things, like ASC's priority.

{3} Which means the only thing left to post is really strategies, not about character match-ups, but against the type of players we encounter. There's a lot of those, which I'm not sure that we've covered. Strategies to deal with people like projectile spammers, who hug the edges of places, and play defensively, or offensive players who use a combination of advance techniques, specifically for their character.

There's still a lot to talk about and experience, but most of what we post is just techniques, which we all know by now, and character matchups, which is still useful as a starting basis. We should share what kinds of players we have versed, and what tactics they use against us, so we can come up with counter tactics. There are a lot of different playstyles, especially for 35 characters.

Just a suggestion though.

I dub you H.


{1} lol@ a recent thread.
{2} I actually did that, while everyone else was busy scorching people for me. "ohh look it's Tenki! he'll answer the question i should have read a sticky for! lolz hes so nice"
{3} Cool. That's actually exactly where we were around the time you joined/started posting. It was a mixture of that and spam. It's really annoying to have to backtrack to {1} when everyone else is at {3}. And it's even worse when people who were at {3} decide to stop contributing, cause then we have to play the catchup game with new people instead of further developing our strats.

 

[HyperSuperSonictheHedgehog]

Cool then. A new thread anyone? (But I ain't starting it. Chances are its probably out there and I haven't seen it yet. Besides, I think I should leave it to the pros. )

 

[Tenki]

Cool then. A new thread anyone? (But I ain't starting it. Chances are its probably out there and I haven't seen it yet. Besides, I think I should leave it to the pros. )

No, not quite yet.

There was a thread that dNES had about matching your style to your opponent's playstyle, but it got lost somewhere.

I personally think overall community still needs to be better, skill-wise first

 

[HyperSuperSonictheHedgehog]

Alrighty then, its your call. I'm still new, and I ain't sure when the community will be ready.
When it is though, count me in.

 

[Greenstreet]

I would seriously recommend getting a new account, for the simple fact that your name is MASSIVE!!!!!

 

[da K.I.D.]

We should have our own Sonic Back Room, where only knowledgeable Sonics who have glimpsed the steak are allowed.

we do, PM me if you want to know where it is

 

[Espy Rose]

we do, PM me if you want to know where it is

Why wasn't I told? ;_;

 

[Kinzer]

You aren't quite "meaty" enough to know.

 

[HyperSuperSonictheHedgehog]

You aren't quite "meaty" enough to know.

Lol, another pun on the steak thing.

HE isn't meaty enough to know!?!? Wasn't that him playing in that match with MK that I watched? He's like awesome!

Personally I'd shudder to vs him... with excitement! That would be a fantastic challenge, and good experience.

 

[da K.I.D.]

lol puffball is trash tier

 

[aeghrur]

Mmm, productive stuff please? >_<

 

[da K.I.D.]

hmmmmm...

puffball is trash tier... and he should f-tilt more?

medoinitrite?

 

[aeghrur]

hmmmmm...

puffball is trash tier... and he should f-tilt more?

medoinitrite?

You always doin it right.

 

[~TBS~]

You always doin it right.

i c wat u did thar.

doinitrite