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How exactly do you mean, do you mean 2nd Witch Twist? TJ SDI'd uair? Sour hitbox launch uair?Could someone tell me how to do an up-b into up-air at kill percents?
Can't figure it out so I'd be great if you guys helped me out
I believe WTw2 > Uair has a few different mix up possibilities but would personally rather an ABK (early hit) at the end of a combo to avoid those situations and the possibility of my opponent just wiggling out of it altogetherCould someone tell me how to do an up-b into up-air at kill percents?
Can't figure it out so I'd be great if you guys helped me out
You must count the jumpsquat frames. With SHAD bat within would be F5. Btw Bayo has no landing lag and you can buffer abk/dabk before landing toobat within would be frame 1 on SHAD instead of frame 3 on roll, so i guess there's that
but SHAD only has 2 frames of leniency (i know you can interrupt airdodges and avoid the landing lag, but idk the specifics; I'm just going off the FAF here), otherwise you're going to be eating 22 frames of landing lag for mistiming it.
Her rolls are pretty bad, so I could see SHAD being more useful, but I'm not sure if it's really that big of a deal. Her OOS options are pretty decent, so rolling isn't something you should really be doing all that often anyway.
As long as you're not spamming roll like a typical FG player, I think you're fine using either option. SHAD may be more useful solely because of bat within being frame 1 on airdodge, so you could avoid hits that you couldn't if you had rolled. Maybe mixing up between roll and SHAD could be an option for you?
I use it as a mix up to SHNair or tomahawk. Elmoro mentioned being able to ABK after that, but it might also reliably apply to Fair1 and definitely to Witch Twist. Great low to the ground mix up I'd say, which is where we generally want to be at low percent.Anyone know if Bayonetta's short hop air dodge is worth using over her roll? I know it's the case with Samus.
Yep I meant after the second Witch TwistHow exactly do you mean, do you mean 2nd Witch Twist? TJ SDI'd uair? Sour hitbox launch uair?
In that case, it should be true beyond like 50%, just hitting uair after Wtw2, but it's been made harder thanks to WTw2's new KBG, so it won't always work.Yep I meant after the second Witch Twist
He probably just got up on the same few frames as you grabbed him so you couldn't see it, but I'll test it and edit this if I find anything. If I don't edit, assume nothing was found.Could somebody test something for me?
I was playing for glory against a boswer jr
He was on ledge at 150% and I dash grabbed and grabbed him
Im not sure if it was because he ledge getuped that very moment or if it was something similar to Donkey Kong grab
(He could grab some characters on the ledge without invisibility)
I have a 3ds so I cannot test it myself
If by horizontal fair strings, you mean cancelling fair into itself to carry them, it's not really very true until later %s far as I know. The close hitbox (the sweetspot slightly behind the gun I believe) is the hitbox that is most conducive to combos, and the one to hit with. However, these strings have been nerfed significantly anyways. If you want to kill them off the side by getting close, nair is a better option, and combos out of fair itself.Can someone explain to me the science of how horizontal fair strings work?
I can't make any sense out of DI and I don't know if there's a part of the hitbox I'm aiming for or if there's some special timing or what. Anyone who utilizes this, please help, thanks
To expand on this, it's the lower inner hitbox that should have the highest hitstun, as well as the highest hit priority of the three. (32F or so) The upper inner one has ~28F of hitstun, and the outer one only has 26F or so. (Quick checks agree that those are the three hitstun numbers) All of them provide enough hitstun for, frame-data-wise, guaranteed ABK or WTwist. Note that the outer one, with JUST enough htistun for ABK, could end up not connecting into the very first frame of ABK, thus technically not being "airtight," but all things considered, it should still land before the target's airdodge invincibility, should that be their response. Things like Marcina/LM up B, Bat within, and Ryu perfect Shoruken + Focus attack can all bring up counter-armor/invincibility on frame 1, and can be more annoying at countering tipper-spaced FAir1.Whenever you're using fair for combos, the inside hitbox is the one you want to use
The dark red is the part you want to hit the opponent with
iirc that hitbox has more hiTatum/a better angle
Basically, aim to hit with Bayo's armpit when using fair1 for combos
Yes yes, quite important. You can do this off of regular nair and uair, as well as (quite uselessly) in the opposite direction of bair. Regular nair is probably the best, since nair is safe on shield when spaced, meaning that if they block it, they have to predict if we will or won't grab. It also means that nair or BA nair->grab is true at low%s.Bayonetta has a tech that will let her slide after a grab. It's very bad quality, but here is a tutorial:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHVs4raDxEo&feature=youtu.be
This is interesting because I often see top bayo's (like PF and Saj) go for Fair1>Fair2>Bayo stuff rather than just Fair1>Bayo stuff.To expand on this, it's the lower inner hitbox that should have the highest hitstun, as well as the highest hit priority of the three. (32F or so) The upper inner one has ~28F of hitstun, and the outer one only has 26F or so. (Quick checks agree that those are the three hitstun numbers) All of them provide enough hitstun for, frame-data-wise, guaranteed ABK or WTwist. Note that the outer one, with JUST enough htistun for ABK, could end up not connecting into the very first frame of ABK, thus technically not being "airtight," but all things considered, it should still land before the target's airdodge invincibility, should that be their response. Things like Marcina/LM up B, Bat within, and Ryu perfect Shoruken + Focus attack can all bring up counter-armor/invincibility on frame 1, and can be more annoying at countering tipper-spaced FAir1.
If you're hitting with EITHER inner hitbox, none of that will matter though.
Right off the bat, frame-perfect FAir1 > UAir should work if you are close enough, (And chain into ez$$$ near the ground) but doing it perfectly... >,> NAir would also be an applicable followup if they are still in range. (Can't remember if so off the top of my head) Bayo doesn't have really any other forward aerial options to follow FAir 1. B-move options are far easier because you don't have to perfectly time your button press or accidentally do a FAir2.
Also, you don't necessarily have to space as close as her armpit. The hitboxes reach all the way to the edge of her gun. But spacing close as possible will guarantee you land the 32F hitstun hitbox.
Edit: It's really important to mention that FAir2 is really way worse for comboing than FAir1.
The kb numbers used for FAir2 are lower all around. The highest hitstun is only 27F, and the lowest is 25F. On top of this, it has 5 whole frames more endlag.
I don't think it even gets you guaranteed Witch Twist lmao
Please don't try to combo with it u will be Shoryuken'd if u do that.
Going for FAir1 only is always a better option. There's is just a much larger (or maybe I should say actual) hit advantage after FAir1 that doesn't exist after FAir2. If you go for hit 2 there's no reason not to do hit 3.This is interesting because I often see top bayo's (like PF and Saj) go for Fair1>Fair2>Bayo stuff rather than just Fair1>Bayo stuff.
I always assumed there was a reason for that but from this it seems like going for ONLY Fair1 is always the better option? Is Fair2 just for a bit more damage then?
Thanks for letting me know!Going for FAir1 only is always a better option. There's is just a much larger (or maybe I should say actual) hit advantage after FAir1 that doesn't exist after FAir2. If you go for hit 2 there's no reason not to do hit 3.
I noticed top players do the 2FAir thing as well and never understood why they wouldn't finish it with FAir3. Now more than ever with the damage nerfs it's not even worth 2.2% to try something gimmicky out of FAir2 that shouldn't work. Even though her specials all have SDI problems you'll at least yet more damage from using them.
Sorry fam, it looks like there aren't a lot of post-patch bayo combo vids, if any. If I could recommend a solution, I'd recommend joining the Bayo Discord by going to character Discords and clicking on her at http://smashcords.com/I figured this would be a good place to ask this:
I've been trying to find some good Bayonetta Combo Vids (mainly after the nerf since the older ones will no longer be effective), but all I can seem to find are either ones that were before the nerf or done in training mode with a CPU that doesn't DI. Has anyone found, or know of any good videos or guides that explain/show her new combos and follow ups after the nerf? I'm trying to get a bit better with her.
Thanks in advance!
Witch Time does so regardless of timing, as long as you land on the ground while she's in the animation (landing towards the end of the animation practically allows her to attack immediately upon landing). You just don't really wanna use it that way - but you can, for sure. And it's effective.Wow. This find is pretty huge, considering that the landing lag she got from using a combo was one of her bigger weaknesses. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Is it only Wtw and HSK that can cancel the landing lag, or could all of her specials work?
Nah, I don't believe so. But the three times or so I've successfully used it on someone, they've dodged after the initial WTw > ABK > Bair and been immediately kicked into the second combo by the LCHSK.As for the combo, is it true (forget about DI and SDI for now)? Even if it isn't, it's still a really nice combo. However, I'd think that you'd need to start the WTw on the ground, or the opponent would be too high for Bair > LCHSK (we'll shorten "Lag Cancelled" to "LC").
Thanks again for pointing this out! I'm hoping that top players will start implementing this into their gameplay soon.
I think people will just stick to WTw and HSK to LC, unless they're sure the opponent will try to punish them. I didn't know about that BC mechanic, but now that I do, I wish that you could do that...Witch Time does so regardless of timing, as long as you land on the ground while she's in the animation (landing towards the end of the animation practically allows her to attack immediately upon landing). You just don't really wanna use it that way - but you can, for sure. And it's effective.
Bullet Climax, on the other hand, is intrinsically designed to fire automatically if you've used ABK or WTw in the air already, so you can't do it with it. Otherwise, we could just go into a charged BC stance until we land and then press shield to cancel our lag altogether.
Nah, I don't believe so. But the three times or so I've successfully used it on someone, they've dodged after the initial WTw > ABK > Bair and been immediately kicked into the second combo by the LCHSK.
It's such hard work to get down to a consistent level, but I really think the reward will be worth it.
You're not wrong, but you could also just go with the guaranteed normal combos that do damage instead of kill.While Bayonetta's combos aren't 100% guaranteed, they all set up for reads on their (S)DI, Frame Traps, and TONS of 50/50s, a lot of them being lethal.
I've never thought of doing that, that's a good idea. In theory, by baiting the getup attack, you could predict it and WTime it. That's only as a hard read though. Thanks for sharing that!I like using SH nair BA, too, but fast fall in place at the ledge, sometimes more than once. It covers a lot of options as well, but the reason I like to fast fall it is because it baits out a getup attack.
Yeah, it's a hard read, which is why I usually just shield grab them (assuming they do attack) to get them offstage again and attempt a gimp.I've never thought of doing that, that's a good idea. In theory, by baiting the getup attack, you could predict it and WTime it. That's only as a hard read though.
https://twitter.com/pinkfreshhhHello! Is there a spreadsheet or discussion in one place/post where I can find Bayo's MU spread? The MU thread looks pretty sprawled so I'm not sure (please excuse me if I'm wrong)
Oh! I did not know of this, thank you for posting it!https://twitter.com/pinkfreshhh
Pink Fresh put down his opinion a few tweets back on our MU spread. I think he's a little crazy, but it's a good starting point.
Pink even said later that Diddy should be even he just didn't want it to seem like we have no losing MU's, which we definitely do.Oh! I did not know of this, thank you for posting it!
EDIT: After actually looking at it, it almost looks like a regular tier list, with just a few minor odd placements (like Bayo at the top lol). I also don't know what each of the phrases are supposed to mean. Like, I get they are things she says sometimes, but how do they equate to good and bad MU's?
EDIT 2: Found a different tweet explaining the phrases. So he claims we have only 1 losing MU (Diddy) which is 45:55, and the rest are even or in our favor. Not sure I agree, but oh well. Still looks an awful lot like a regular tier list to me though...