BBR Weekly Character Discussion #16: Mr. Game & Watch

[z00ted]

UTDZac just won Quakecon.

 

[Laem]

all yall *****s be thinkin u smarts but u dont no **** lol g&w da bess.

What this guy said

 

[DMG]

Nope, Quake Con doesn't count.

G&W is better than ZSS though.

 

[Vinnie]

Nope, Quake Con doesn't count.

Why?
10dark magician girls

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

I don't know, ZSS seems better than G&W. She's still faster than G&W, and has better matchups vs the high tiers than G&W.

I thought I would hear more about why G&W is any good if @ all. He seems more like the bottom of B or mid-high of C. Rob, ZSS, Wolf, Fox, Sheik/Zelda and Pit are better than him anyways, so if he goes down, it'll be because other characters have caught up and surpassed him.

 

[A2ZOMG]

ZSS has better matchups? Nonsense. Most people barely know the ZSS matchup at all. But she does worse vs Falco, does no better vs MK, and I can't see any way how she does better vs Snake provided people stop unneccessarily running into her random walls.

G&W is definitely better than ROB, Wolf, Fox, and Pit. Sheik on the other hand is probably in the same tier as G&W and is the most underrated character of the group mentioned.

ROB's recovery is verrrrry punishable if you know the matchup, and he has very few answers to vertical spacing, and one of the worst shields in the game. His extreme floatiness hinders him more than it helps him for the most part. There really isn't a single high tier that ROB does better against than G&W besides maaaaybe the Ice Climbers. But he does considerably worse against everyone else.

Wolf has many reeeealy stupidly bad matchups and few matchups he does particularly well in. So does Fox as well.

As far as I can tell, most of the matchups Pit does "okay" in, G&W does better in. And he gets wrecked harder against Metaknight and Marth, as if those weren't already bad matchups for G&W, they're just HORRIBLE for Pit.

 

[Cubone]

ZSS has better matchups? Nonsense. Most people barely know the ZSS matchup at all. But she does worse vs Falco, does no better vs MK, and I can't see any way how she does better vs Snake provided people stop unneccessarily running into her random walls.

G&W is definitely better than ROB, Wolf, Fox, and Pit. Sheik on the other hand is probably in the same tier as G&W and is the most underrated character of the group mentioned.

ROB's recovery is verrrrry punishable if you know the matchup, and he has very few answers to vertical spacing, and one of the worst shields in the game. His extreme floatiness hinders him more than it helps him for the most part. There really isn't a single high tier that ROB does better against than G&W besides maaaaybe the Ice Climbers. But he does considerably worse against everyone else.

Wolf has many reeeealy stupidly bad matchups and few matchups he does particularly well in. So does Fox as well.

As far as I can tell, most of the matchups Pit does "okay" in, G&W does better in. And he gets wrecked harder against Metaknight and Marth, as if those weren't already bad matchups for G&W, they're just HORRIBLE for Pit.

ROB has better high tier MU's vs Marth (even) and Diddy(argued hard ranging from 45:55 - 6:4 ROB) He has it worse vs MK and DDD though, and Falco & Snake is about the same.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Ok, and then he's probably worse against Sheik (who breaks his zoning extremely easily) and ZSS (who has an infinite on him) and Pikachu (who like Sheik breaks his zoning very easily, and on top of that isn't easy for ROB to gimp or kill). And he's probably worse off against Snake overall due to how badly he gets edgetrapped.

 

[Noraa]

I dont understand how people can say his moves are so predictible and linear. Every character is......

Everyone has the same the option as the other...some just have better advantages of doing a certain move whether being spacing or priority or how fast it comes out.

*except people with glide toss have 1 more option

WOW

 

[GimR]

G&W is underrated. I used to think that he sucks in singles but I don't anymore.

 

[Lightning Tiger]

G&W is underrated. I used to think that he sucks in singles but I don't anymore.

Are you coming back to GaW?

 

[Noraa]

Gimr put in some work last tourny with gw so im guessing he is?

 

[Valdens]

Wow, that was scary. I went to this thread through my user CP and was like "What the hell? Vinnie and A2ZOMG are in the BBR?!" before realizing it was moved, lol.

but yeah, as soon as this thread comes up, Zac, Vinnie and I all do really well at tournaments, lol... Maybe we should discuss him more. >_>

 

[GimR]

Are you coming back to GaW?

Gimr put in some work last tourny with gw so im guessing he is?

yup. I'm going all Icies and G&W

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

oh my GIMR D:

 

[2-2]

I've been out of the competitive scene since MLG Columbus because of school, but I've been practicing hard and changing my playstyle so that I make a strong comeback in Ohio.

 

[Lord Chair]

Uh. ZSS is most def better than GnW.
She has a whole lot going for her.
Out of the thousands of people I talked about this, you two are the only ones saying otherwise.
GnW pride, though I understand. aha. ;p

And no... I hope you're not only thinking the moves she has are sideb and dsmash... lol... she's very fast, she can combo well, and hellooo? Lol. She only has 3 bad matchups Falco being the worst and a Squirtle that can't stay Squirtle all the time. Other than that, she does really well against high tier characters (unlike a certain 2d character), and is considered a good character for MK. Obviously ZSS places higher than GnW can. It's very apparent she's going up on the next tier list. She has the 2nd best uair in the game if not the best next to MKs, no lag, great in close combat, fastest jab, etc.
ZSS is going to be high tier next list. Just watch. ;p ~

Edit: Fyi: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=279323
I'm all for ZSS raising higher than GnW. I love him to death, but she's too good.

Lol this man is ****ing stupid.

Yeah replying to old post everyone has probably already bashed idc.

 

[2-2]

Lol this man is ****ing stupid.

Yeah replying to old post everyone has probably already bashed idc.

Girl, not man.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

G&W is "most def." better than ZSS, but you shouldn't be insulting someone for thinking otherwise. They're both good characters that are so underused that their placement is tough to pinpoint, so disagreement is inevitable; It's no reason to get hot and bothered about, though.

I'm glad you're back with us, GIMR :D

 

[slikvik]

Even though G&W blows, people still get gimmicked hard so I'm picking up G&W seriously again

 

[A2ZOMG]

G&W is a lot less gimmicky than people give him credit for.

There's really only like two matchups he has real trouble doing his job in. The rest of his problem is just players not picking the best option consistently.

 

[UTDZac]

Imo G&W is pretty gimmicky.

His Uair is unlike any move in the game.
His UpB let's you escape situations most characters would only dream they could.
He has a 1-hit KO move.
There are like 100 different ways to give him his UpB back.
He has invincibility frames on his taunt.


...and he can do push ups =)

 

[Kofu]

He has invincibility frames on his taunt.

w at

 

[Alphicans]

Imo G&W is pretty gimmicky.

His Uair is unlike any move in the game.
His UpB let's you escape situations most characters would only dream they could.
He has a 1-hit KO move.
There are like 100 different ways to give him his UpB back.
He has invincibility frames on his taunt.


...and he can do push ups =)

Those don't sound like gimmicks, most of them sound really really useful, which they are.

 

[Valdens]

...does his taunt really have invincibility frames? O_o

 

[2-2]

No he doesn't. You sir have lied to me.

And just look at that nose.

 

[A2ZOMG]

When I said gimmicky, I meant "reliant on shenanigans".

Lucario for example is very gimmicky. He has good walls and dodges, but he sucks at baiting and pressuring a lot due to his rather slow speed and poor shieldgrab, and really only wins against people (or bad characters) that can't option limit him properly. He's the kind of character that clearly needs you to make a mistake or not understand the matchup to actually dominate you. And while he has Aura to increase his reward, his bad recovery limits his ability to survive.

G&W's stuff can be considered unusual, but isn't what I would call just gimmicky. He has a solid enough ability to zone and pressure to create the openings he needs to do his job. His ability to juggle, edgeguard, and the advantage he gets from D-throw gives him feasible options for putting his power to good use. His tools allow him to make reads which can win him matches.

 

[Alphicans]

Good reads do win matches. Feels so good to get a fully charged usmash to kill at like 55%. It's truly game changing.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

You know what? After reading several other BBR discussions on characters, I've felt that G&W's thread left much to be desired; We have low tiers getting a much more thorough discussion than us, a character who can actually place well in tournaments. Now, some might not agree to that bit, but it's certainly true that G&W is a viable tournament character, as shown by both UTD Zac and Vinnie in recent times. All the talk seems to suggest the only place he should go (if he moves at all) is down, despite being the wrong direction for him to go with all the MLG-like stagelists that have been recently popping up. From this belief that he should move up, I'm going to try and breathe some more discussion into this thread, in the hopes that it will affect someone's opinion to the degree that G&W should at least stay placed as is.

First things first, lets focus on the issues he runs into at tournaments, as his positives are much more numerous (as with all higher tiered characters, really) and will be a more stressed section of this post. As far as true issues go, he runs into two primary problems:

1. He has common tournament characters as his bad matchups. MK is the most obvious of these bad matchups, him being the most common and arguably the worst of these to fight. Diddy and Snake are also fairly common characters to run into, but are much easier once you've passed a certain threshold learning to combat their main draws. He has a smattering of a few other disadvantages, but these are the most prevalent.
2. Conservative stage lists worsen these matchups and make some more niche characters he has some issues with more popular. AA made an insightful comment regarding this; To maximize our ability to fight MK, we have to minimize ground play. Conservative regions are all about ground-based gameplay in their stage lists, which makes several matchups superficially hard. More than just this, it produces an unnatural amount of niche characters such as Ice Climbers, who give G&W a good deal of trouble within this environment. With so few starter stages to enrich our options and only a handful of stages to counterpick to, it's no wonder it's tough going all G&W in a tournament. Well, this might be changing.

Those are the primary issues a Game & Watch main has to be aware about in today's metagame. He has some smaller issues that could be stressed a bit, but they are just part of those two bigger problems. There has been a pretty noticeable shift in the metagame between now and the past tier list; stage lists. It isn't hard to see this far in Brawl's lifetime that G&W is a character whose biggest advantages are magnified on interactive stages. Though slightly less obvious than the prior bit, you can also tell that his issues are with a few of the characters on the other end of the spectrum getting superficially buffed. It seems, recently, that good news is on the horizon for G&W. More and more tournaments have been adopting MLG-like stage lists, as well as accepting the BBR rule set towards stages/removal of the the LGL (which ultimately hurt characters like G&W more than putting MK in his place). These changes decidedly help Game & Watch a great deal, and all the glossing over of this fact is a little disheartening. If you care for a further read regarding his weaknesses/misconceptions, I suggest another thread I made a bit ago:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=246884
(The second post was purposefully blown out of proportion to garner reads and responses, btw. He isn't top 5 material <3 )

Now aside from the brief metagame analysis as to why G&W is seemingly bad, and why this will likely be changing with all the stage list reform popping up, it probably wouldn't hurt to stress upon G&W's biggest advantages and features. I suspect the quickest way to do this is a flat-out list:

• Survivability. G&W, as a character, isn't someone you would immediately expect to live long, seeing how he is the second lightest character in the game. However, with the discovery of his down B canceling momentum, this has changed a great deal, allowing us to survive especially long on big stages like Jungle Japes, Pictochat, and Luigi's Mansion. This coupled with him having one of the best recoveries in the game in terms of versatility that cant be consistently gimped make up for a surprisingly long-lived character.
• Light-weight. This is typically a double-edged sword for most characters; being light means you aren't susceptible to abuses but you die early, and the inverse being true for heavy weights. This isn't the case for G&W. He receives the best of both worlds in that he has virtually no abuses from CG's/GR's/Juggles and still manages to live well past what his weight would typically allow for.
• Mobility. This, in fact, is the most important of his draws. With his kooky deceleration/top speed and his plethora of mobilty enhancing moves (UpB, plunging Dair, momentum canceling DownB, reversible/ledge boosted specials, and amazing glidetoss among other things) it's not going out on a limb to say G&W can very easily get around. His aerial mobility is akin to Jigglypuff's, and this allows all of his aerials to be more safe than if he had a more typical base aerial speed/etc. This is a huge boon, and it's one of the main reasons why he excels on interactive stages.
• Projectiles. He doesn't have the best projectile himself, but he's really good at deterring his opponents from using theirs. His DownB is obvious at shutting down energy based projectiles, giving him a frame 2 kill move with a ton of power and range, but there's more than just this. G&W's disjointed moves are very handy at breaking through non-energy based projectiles, barring some explosives. Not to mention, his duck is incredibly low to the ground, ducking under several projectiles. Oh, and his mobility allows him to get around several other things his bucket and aerials don't stop, such as bananas and nades.
• Planking/Uair. These sort of go hand in hand. Game & Watch's planking game is one of the absolute best in the game, though definitely at the level of MK's. It almost single-handily makes the Snake matchup from being MK levels of bad, but this is also heavily influenced by his Uair. This move is amazing on the ledge, though it's nearly as good everywhere else, with it's ability to unstale your moves and keep off projectiles/opponents while you stale them out with planking. Without the LGL, G&W can be very threatening in this position, though not many Game & Watch mains abuse this fact given the opportunity.

...and these are just half of it. He's also got amazing juggling potential, an awesome out of shield game (which is a must have in the higher tiers, imo), a great edgeguard game, the ability to kill absurdly early using good reads, disjointed moveset full of multihits and lingering hitboxes, windboxes, being small sized, low cooldown, amazing at refreshing stale moves, ETC ETC. On paper, he's solid, and before you jump in to exclaim that he lacks the depth to back up these strengths, he is also very, nonobviously nuanced. The majority of his moves all have small little things that enrich his ability to perform when the user is aware of them. Bair is often put down for being unsafe on hit, but this isn't the case when you use all your options; With your max speed/deceleration the spacing can be done so that it's not common at all to punish, coupled with it being able to be canceled early into the landing hitbox and landing before the hitbox comes out. These mixups are commonplace in the G&W main's repertoire, and they exist for numerous moves.

Beyond mechanics, G&W has the ability to excel much in the same way Ike can. Ike looks poor on paper, but in practice, his powerful moves force responses just by him having them. G&W, much in the same way, forces opponents by conditioning. He relies on the person using him to be able to zone and condition the opponent enough to get past his issues in approaching/killing. DMG nailed it:

I think G&W players are fighting the characters more than they should be fighting the person behind them.

As such, G&W is an underrated threat in the metagame. His mixups and "mindgame" potential are unexpected by all the people proclaiming that it isn't '08 any more and that he isn't a threat, and as such I expect him to be a viable "surprise" character. Not that I don't think G&W can't go all the way when people know all he has, this is just a boon. Without the LGL and having varied stage lists, Mr. Game & Watch should definitely go up in this upcoming list. If you assume some tournaments will have restrictive rules for him, he should stay in place. Despite being an unpopular character choice, nothing suggests he should go down further after his latest drop on the tier list.

tl;dr: G&W is a good character who doesn't deserve dropping any more. In fact, he should go up with the rise of MLG-like stage lists.



I did this in a single sitting, so it may not be as comprehensive as I wanted. I just hope this promotes some more serious talk about G&W instead of jokes at the amount of dimensions he has. Everyone else is just overcompensating by having an extra dimension :O

EDIT: Wow, I posted this at exactly 9pm EST. Perfect time to make a post about G&W, eh Zac?

 

[Splice]

I can discuss but I'm not really good at making comprehensive posts like you Mr.Escalator.

I agree with that post it sounds bias coz it doesn't talk about any cons of GaW at all, but all the things that were mentioned are the amazing traits of GaW and he is a great character.

Probably add to the mobility to section, that he is pretty **** on the ground though, despite being **** in the air.

But yeah our char needs to start going up, all the GaW mains that are well-known are top players; PGN, UTD, Kaak, and within my own country, myself, lol. I think the something that keeps the GaW player down is the MK Snake Diddy and Marth MU's being his bad ones, and they are pretty much the 4 most used characters as far as i can tell.

But I think the Snake MU is starting to become friendlier for us, and after watching those recent UTD vs Gnes matches, I saw UTD do things that i never thought GaW could do against Diddy (amazing banana use by Zac, too), and after seeing that I really don't think it's as bad as I used to think it was. We have the tools to make the MK have to be quite skillful to beat us; it's an uphill battle, but the MK player actually has to be good. As for Marth, I have a lot more experience in the MU now, the Marth still has to play a careful and defensive style against a good GaW to win.

GaW is much more solid and less prone to dying for no-reason than other characters above him; GaWs survivability combined with a good playstyle makes sure that no stock ever goes by without being put to good use, whereas with other characters they are never quite as safe as GaW and not quite as good at getting back to a safe position when they are hit away from the stage. GaW also has the power to make comebacks, and whilst I do think the 9 deserves a mentione here, seriously, I am not talking about just that. With a tech chase that leads into kill moves in ways that can catch any player off guard, and some of the better juggling attacks in the game, If GaW gets an opening he really can waste the better part of the opponents stock, and this applies to most characters.

GaW can have stage control, and he ***** when he has it; a GaW with control of the match and the pressure on the opponent can really just tear the opponent apart. The opponent has to be aware of GaWs dangerous moves and ability to suddenly put you in a bad position with Uair and UpB(which is an amazing escape out of almost any situation, something not a lot of characters have. I'd say it's the best GTFO move in the game ). Because of this aggression is hardly a decent strategy against a careful/smart GaW, although MK and Marth can probably get away with this sometimes I admit. But GaW does not need to be in control of the stage to play; even if he gives the opponent free reign, he is so mobile that on high platforms above the stage he can be safe, he has one of the best offstage/planking style of play in the game, and is amazing at sharking too, of course that only applies to some stages.

Even when GaW doesn't have the MU advantage, sometimes he does have more choices than the opponent. GaW can't afford to be aggressive, but he can do well on any part of the stage, high up on the ground or offstage, GaW has the tools. He has trouble approaching when the opponent has the % lead, but by putting on correct pressure, against most characters you will be able to make an opening.

It is only when the opponent has a stock lead against GaW that the whole match becomes harder, because it can be hard to get a grab or land a kill move if the opponent isn't aiming to approach, rather, aiming to camp. With Bair not being the safest approach, you need to think of another way to outdo the opponent, but really I think that applies to most characters.

lol
accidentally made a big post xD

TL:DR : What Mr.E said +1

 

[Albert.]

Why were BBR people saying that G&W doesn't get good results when he JUST in the past month won two diff tournaments? Vinnie and UTD going **** mode in NY and TX respectively?


big iirc but saying G&W doesn't get tourney results is a half truth just because these two players just ***** in two of the hardest regions.

 

[Noraa]

You know what? After reading several other BBR discussions on characters, I've felt that G&W's thread left much to be desired; We have low tiers getting a much more thorough discussion than us, a character who can actually place well in tournaments. Now, some might not agree to that bit, but it's certainly true that G&W is a viable tournament character, as shown by both UTD Zac and Vinnie in recent times. All the talk seems to suggest the only place he should go (if he moves at all) is down, despite being the wrong direction for him to go with all the MLG-like stagelists that have been recently popping up. From this belief that he should move up, I'm going to try and breathe some more discussion into this thread, in the hopes that it will affect someone's opinion to the degree that G&W should at least stay placed as is.

First things first, lets focus on the issues he runs into at tournaments, as his positives are much more numerous (as with all higher tiered characters, really) and will be a more stressed section of this post. As far as true issues go, he runs into two primary problems:

1. He has common tournament characters as his bad matchups. MK is the most obvious of these bad matchups, him being the most common and arguably the worst of these to fight. Diddy and Snake are also fairly common characters to run into, but are much easier once you've passed a certain threshold learning to combat their main draws. He has a smattering of a few other disadvantages, but these are the most prevalent.
2. Conservative stage lists worsen these matchups and make some more niche characters he has some issues with more popular. AA made an insightful comment regarding this; To maximize our ability to fight MK, we have to minimize ground play. Conservative regions are all about ground-based gameplay in their stage lists, which makes several matchups superficially hard. More than just this, it produces an unnatural amount of niche characters such as Ice Climbers, who give G&W a good deal of trouble within this environment. With so few starter stages to enrich our options and only a handful of stages to counterpick to, it's no wonder it's tough going all G&W in a tournament. Well, this might be changing.

Those are the primary issues a Game & Watch main has to be aware about in today's metagame. He has some smaller issues that could be stressed a bit, but they are just part of those two bigger problems. There has been a pretty noticeable shift in the metagame between now and the past tier list; stage lists. It isn't hard to see this far in Brawl's lifetime that G&W is a character whose biggest advantages are magnified on interactive stages. Though slightly less obvious than the prior bit, you can also tell that his issues are with a few of the characters on the other end of the spectrum getting superficially buffed. It seems, recently, that good news is on the horizon for G&W. More and more tournaments have been adopting MLG-like stage lists, as well as accepting the BBR rule set towards stages/removal of the the LGL (which ultimately hurt characters like G&W more than putting MK in his place). These changes decidedly help Game & Watch a great deal, and all the glossing over of this fact is a little disheartening. If you care for a further read regarding his weaknesses/misconceptions, I suggest another thread I made a bit ago:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=246884
(The second post was purposefully blown out of proportion to garner reads and responses, btw. He isn't top 5 material <3 )

Now aside from the brief metagame analysis as to why G&W is seemingly bad, and why this will likely be changing with all the stage list reform popping up, it probably wouldn't hurt to stress upon G&W's biggest advantages and features. I suspect the quickest way to do this is a flat-out list:

• Survivability. G&W, as a character, isn't someone you would immediately expect to live long, seeing how he is the second lightest character in the game. However, with the discovery of his down B canceling momentum, this has changed a great deal, allowing us to survive especially long on big stages like Jungle Japes, Pictochat, and Luigi's Mansion. This coupled with him having one of the best recoveries in the game in terms of versatility that cant be consistently gimped make up for a surprisingly long-lived character.
• Light-weight. This is typically a double-edged sword for most characters; being light means you aren't susceptible to abuses but you die early, and the inverse being true for heavy weights. This isn't the case for G&W. He receives the best of both worlds in that he has virtually no abuses from CG's/GR's/Juggles and still manages to live well past what his weight would typically allow for.
• Mobility. This, in fact, is the most important of his draws. With his kooky deceleration/top speed and his plethora of mobilty enhancing moves (UpB, plunging Dair, momentum canceling DownB, reversible/ledge boosted specials, and amazing glidetoss among other things) it's not going out on a limb to say G&W can very easily get around. His aerial mobility is akin to Jigglypuff's, and this allows all of his aerials to be more safe than if he had a more typical base aerial speed/etc. This is a huge boon, and it's one of the main reasons why he excels on interactive stages.
• Projectiles. He doesn't have the best projectile himself, but he's really good at deterring his opponents from using theirs. His DownB is obvious at shutting down energy based projectiles, giving him a frame 2 kill move with a ton of power and range, but there's more than just this. G&W's disjointed moves are very handy at breaking through non-energy based projectiles, barring some explosives. Not to mention, his duck is incredibly low to the ground, ducking under several projectiles. Oh, and his mobility allows him to get around several other things his bucket and aerials don't stop, such as bananas and nades.
• Planking/Uair. These sort of go hand in hand. Game & Watch's planking game is one of the absolute best in the game, though definitely at the level of MK's. It almost single-handily makes the Snake matchup from being MK levels of bad, but this is also heavily influenced by his Uair. This move is amazing on the ledge, though it's nearly as good everywhere else, with it's ability to unstale your moves and keep off projectiles/opponents while you stale them out with planking. Without the LGL, G&W can be very threatening in this position, though not many Game & Watch mains abuse this fact given the opportunity.

...and these are just half of it. He's also got amazing juggling potential, an awesome out of shield game (which is a must have in the higher tiers, imo), a great edgeguard game, the ability to kill absurdly early using good reads, disjointed moveset full of multihits and lingering hitboxes, windboxes, being small sized, low cooldown, amazing at refreshing stale moves, ETC ETC. On paper, he's solid, and before you jump in to exclaim that he lacks the depth to back up these strengths, he is also very, nonobviously nuanced. The majority of his moves all have small little things that enrich his ability to perform when the user is aware of them. Bair is often put down for being unsafe on hit, but this isn't the case when you use all your options; With your max speed/deceleration the spacing can be done so that it's not common at all to punish, coupled with it being able to be canceled early into the landing hitbox and landing before the hitbox comes out. These mixups are commonplace in the G&W main's repertoire, and they exist for numerous moves.

Beyond mechanics, G&W has the ability to excel much in the same way Ike can. Ike looks poor on paper, but in practice, his powerful moves force responses just by him having them. G&W, much in the same way, forces opponents by conditioning. He relies on the person using him to be able to zone and condition the opponent enough to get past his issues in approaching/killing. DMG nailed it:



As such, G&W is an underrated threat in the metagame. His mixups and "mindgame" potential are unexpected by all the people proclaiming that it isn't '08 any more and that he isn't a threat, and as such I expect him to be a viable "surprise" character. Not that I don't think G&W can't go all the way when people know all he has, this is just a boon. Without the LGL and having varied stage lists, Mr. Game & Watch should definitely go up in this upcoming list. If you assume some tournaments will have restrictive rules for him, he should stay in place. Despite being an unpopular character choice, nothing suggests he should go down further after his latest drop on the tier list.

tl;dr: G&W is a good character who doesn't deserve dropping any more. In fact, he should go up with the rise of MLG-like stage lists.



I did this in a single sitting, so it may not be as comprehensive as I wanted. I just hope this promotes some more serious talk about G&W instead of jokes at the amount of dimensions he has. Everyone else is just overcompensating by having an extra dimension :O

EDIT: Wow, I posted this at exactly 9pm EST. Perfect time to make a post about G&W, eh Zac?

wont lie lol