Best of both worlds?

[Tabaris]

As I'm sure most of you know, the first official SBR tier list has been released. Looking over Ness's position is neither here nor there (although I believe there is still plenty of untapped potential in his metagame, he might place higher later).

Over the past couple days however, I've been pondering the idea of what a beast would be made if we combined the great aspects of Lucas and Ness together. What kind of monstrosity would be formed? If we had the pros of both Mother boy's.. Do you think that character could be top/high tier potential? Would this character be overpowered? Am I just letting my imagination run wild?

Anyway, I just want to see what your take on the matter would be, or how you think it would shape out.. Take what you consider to be the best aspects of each character and create your own monstrosity.

 

[Professional Idiot]

If I made a list of everything, it'd take forever. And if every Lucas and Ness player did this, we'd all eventually arrive at the same conclusion. But if there was only one thing I'd give Ness from Lucas, it would be the stick or D-Air. Conversely, Lucas' best addition would be the KO Power of Ness' PK Thunder 2. Thundersliding would make him able to KO at ridiculously low percentages with very little startup.

 

[Tabaris]

If I made a list of everything, it'd take forever. And if every Lucas and Ness player did this, we'd all eventually arrive at the same conclusion. But if there was only one thing I'd give Ness from Lucas, it would be the stick or D-Air. Conversely, Lucas' best addition would be the KO Power of Ness' PK Thunder 2. Thundersliding would make him able to KO at ridiculously low percentages with very little startup.

Very interesting, personally I prefer Lucas's recovery compared to Ness (as far as PKT2 is concerned). If I had to add one thing to Ness from Lucas, it would be the striking properties of Lucas's PKT to Ness's (by that I mean the ability for pkt to travel through opponents). Also taking into account the range that Lucas's PKT2 covers... Even that would be enough for me..

I'm in love with Ness's Dair, so I'd probably keep that lol. I'm getting better at landing the spike even if I risk getting gimped.

 

[Gaussis]

Lemme see. Um...
Keep:
-All of Ness's stuff minus dsmash and PSI magnet lag (I still don't want Lucas's for some reason, even if it is better so Lucas startup and ending time and 2x heal, Ness's version).

Merge:
-PK Flash/Freeze qualities (Ness speed, Lucas effect, and yes I still want knockback in there too)
-PKT2 (Lucas full length, Ness shortening, believe me it's essential)
-utilt (Ness version, Lucas disjoint)
-ftilt (Ness version, Lucas disjoint).

Undecided
-PK Fire (I want to have Lucas's horizontal fire w/ pillar, but I'm having second-thoughts. I guess I have grown too attached to Ness's original qualities. Lol at above.)
-PKT (I kinda do want it to go through, but then again say goodbye to PKT juggling and say hello to um...PKT juggling?)

Yes I did create a monster, and yes I did it with the purpose of being overpowered. As far as the tier list is concerned, until it looks accurate enough, I won't rely on it.

 

[Tabaris]

Lemme see. Um...
Keep:
-All of Ness's stuff minus dsmash and PSI magnet lag (I still don't want Lucas's for some reason, even if it is better so Lucas startup and ending time and 2x heal, Ness's version).

Merge:
-PK Flash/Freeze qualities (Ness speed, Lucas effect, and yes I still want knockback in there too)
-PKT2 (Lucas full length, Ness shortening, believe me it's essential)
-utilt (Ness version, Lucas disjoint)
-ftilt (Ness version, Lucas disjoint).

Undecided
-PK Fire (I want to have Lucas's horizontal fire w/ pillar, but I'm having second-thoughts. I guess I have grown too attached to Ness's original qualities. Lol at above.)
-PKT (I kinda do want it to go through, but then again say goodbye to PKT juggling and say hello to um...PKT juggling?)

Yes I did create a monster, and yes I did it with the purpose of being overpowered. As far as the tier list is concerned, until it looks accurate enough, I won't rely on it.

Interesting changes, many of the properties of PKT(2) I can see undergoing changes

My version of the ultimate PKT

-Keep ness's PKT2 ko potential, hell lets extend the sweet spot out a bit
-Lucas's recovery range for PKT2
-Auto cancel ability (kinda like snake's nikita)
-The ability for PKT to pass through opponents (what Lucas currently has)
-Keep Ness's tail and speed

I think that about covers it

 

[Masky]

If Ness and Lucas combined into one character, when you pressed "up-B" two different PK Thunders would come out that were both invincible and moved as fast as Ness's, one controllable with the joystick and the other controllable with the c-stick. He'd be the best character in the game

 

[EDMartyr]

I think I like Masky's idea the most. lol. Seriously...that just sounds beautiful. Even if you took away the invincibility...imagine using two PKTs at once...

*drools*

 

[Criosphinx]

If you combined the two of them, they'd still get chain grabbed.

 

[Tabaris]

This is true, but there is no doubting there would be a massive boost in power, and he might even get high, possibly top tier with some of the suggestions I've read so far lol.

 

[Criosphinx]

He wouldn't get top tier if he was gimpable so easily. An 80/90-20 hard counter = nowhere near top tier. This being said, some of the ideas are interesting. 2 PK thunders would be... confusing.

I'd dig Lucas' Fsmash, and his Dsmash >>>>>> Ness', imo.

 

[Earthbound360]

^^^
Lucas fsmash>>>Ness'
Dsmash is only a >

Check my comparison topic to see what both should get if they WERE to be combined. Its a bit outdated tho.

Anyways, even if they had the grab problems still, deathgrab is pretty useless now

 

[_clinton]

Lets see now...

A combo-Lucas
Dash Attack-Ness
>tilt-Lucas' but can aim it like Ness
^tilt-Lucas
vtilt-Ness

>Smash-Lucas
^smash-Ness' but with Lucas' power...
vsmash-Lucas

nAir-Ness
fAir-Ness
bAir-Ness
uAir-Lucas
dAir-Lucas
zAir-Lucas

Grab and Shield Grab-Ness
Running Grab-Ness
Pivot Grab-Lucas

Pummel-Ness' with Lucas' damage
Fthrow-Ness
Bthrow-Ness
Uthrow-Ness
Dthrow-Lucas' but with the fire from Ness'

B-Flash Speed, Freeze effect, KO power of Flash
>B1-Lucas' range, Ness' low path on ground and effect
>B2-Lucas' type with a short hop, Ness' type with a double jump...
^B1-Ness' start...however Lucas' power at the 1st 40 frames...therefore preventing steals to a point...
^B2-Ness' doesn't really matter anyway...I gave him a Zair...giving him more recovery then 80% of the cast with that double jump
vB-Lucas' however it has Ness' wind effect

1st jump-Ness...that means a good footstool and a great short hop
duck-Ness...just because he can get under some projectiles...
air movement-Lucas...which means that a bad PK jump will have Ness' effect and a good one will give him zap jump...
2nd jump-Ness'

Anything I miss?

 

[Earthbound360]

Uthrow should go to Lucas with him getting Ness' dthrow. Ness' dthrow is too much of an uthrow anyways.
lol at yo-yo with PK Love knockback. Do u know how broken that'd be? I love it! Same for PK Freeze FLash O_o

Ness uair _Clint.
Air movement might go for Ness. Im too deeply in love with DAS.

 

[_clinton]

Uthrow should go to Lucas with him getting Ness' dthrow. Ness' dthrow is too much of an uthrow anyways.
lol at yo-yo with PK Love knockback. Do u know how broken that'd be? I love it! Same for PK Freeze FLash O_o

Ness uair _Clint.
Air movement might go for Ness. Im too deeply in love with DAS.

Lucas' uair has more range then Ness'...and it comes out on frame 5...compared to Ness' frame 8...Ness does have more killing power though (122 to 154)

I guess giving Ness power with Lucas' other traits would make it the best...

Lucas moves through the air faster then Ness...its just that his jumps suck compared to Ness'

I gave Lucas down throw for a reason...at low % you can up tilt them with a true combo...I gave Ness up throw because of the mind games you can do with it...however I guess Lucas' would be better...seeing as to how it does have more power...

Oh and I was thinking Flash Freeze...not Freeze Flash...

 

[PKSkyler]

This might sound weird, but I like Ness` PK Thunder more. I dont want it to go through foes, even if it was as fast as ness` and same tail. What I would add to Ness is if his PKT is canceled by anything excpet for just stalling out, he would be able to use it again while in the air. that means if someone goes and trys to eat your thunder they take percent but you dont go in helpless mode..

I like Lucas` downsmash and fsmash. How about Ness` fsmash power and Lucas` speed?

For dsmash...haha, one hand ness uses Lucas dsmash in one direction, the other direction he whips around his yoyo...

 

[Uffe]

Yeah, Ness' PK Thunder is so much better. I don't care if Lucas' goes through things. And Lucas pretty much stole the speed of Ness' baseball bat. In the last two game, Ness was able to swing that bat so fast. If anything I think Ness should have more power in his bat.

 

[Earthbound360]

^^^
He does, but only at the tip and its only about 4% stronger.
When Sakurai said his bat would be stronger, he really cut it close in terms of knockback. Damage is nice though.

 

[PK Starstorm]

Ness would have the same spped as Lucas' stick, but still the tipper effect.
Nair would multishock then deliver it's normal knockback.
ftilt would be the same except add Lucas' speed and range and psi energy to it. (still tiltable)
pk fire would trap then explode
pk flash would be able to cover horizontal and vertical distance with the speed of pk freeze.
up smash would hit like pk love
downsmash could shock while charging then hit with snap knockback
headbut speed would come out like lucas'
dash would be solid like lucas'
fair would multihit like normal, but ending blast would be the smae knockback as lucas fair

 

[Man of Popsicle]

What I would add to Ness is if his PKT is canceled by anything excpet for just stalling out, he would be able to use it again while in the air. that means if someone goes and trys to eat your thunder they take percent but you dont go in helpless mode..

That screws us ness players so bad.