Blog of the Week: My Feelings on Christianity/the bible

[Neo Exdeath]

God, there is just so much ****** in this thread I can't even stand it.

EDIT:


Oh god, especially you. Why the **** would anyone ever choose to be gay over being straight. Homosexuals learn to accept their sexuality, but I can't imagine anyone would choose it.

This statement just makes you look like a homophobe. People choose being gay because they find members of their sex attractive. Plus, stop flaming. You're going to get this thread locked.

 

[Melomaniacal]

This statement just makes you look like a homophobe. People choose being gay because they find members of their sex attractive. Plus, stop flaming. You're going to get this thread locked.

Well, it's much harder to be a homosexual. You have to deal with a lot of crap, and honestly if it were a choice, I see no reason why anyone would chose to be homosexual. It's just easier to be heterosexual. Until "heterophobia" becomes as big as homophobia, I wouldn't understand why someone would chose to be homosexual over heterosexual.

Basically, what I'm trying to get at is that homosexuality isn't a choice. Just like it wasn't my choice to be attracted to females. That's just the way I am. Now, it may be a choice to act on your sexuality, but I think it's unfair and wrong to say that homosexuals who act on their sexualities are sinners or deserve punishment. A lot of this is to do with my belief that it's a "law" that some homophobic people made up; not god.

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

Well, it's much harder to be a homosexual. You have to deal with a lot of crap, and honestly if it were a choice, I see no reason why anyone would chose to be homosexual. It's just easier to be heterosexual. Until "heterophobia" becomes as big as homophobia, I wouldn't understand why someone would chose to be homosexual over heterosexual.

Basically, what I'm trying to get at is that homosexuality isn't a choice. Just like it wasn't my choice to be attracted to females. That's just the way I am. Now, it may be a choice to act on your sexuality, but I think it's unfair and wrong to say that homosexuals who act on their sexualities are sinners or deserve punishment. A lot of this is to do with my belief that it's a "law" that some homophobic people made up; not god.

It is my stance that homosexuality is a choice.

Why, if one is born gay, is there not a single homosexual in my church? Out of hundreds of people, not a single person likes anyone of the same sex. Why is this? It is because the way of life that they embrace and what they have been taught does not allow this; therefore, they did not choose that path.

Please understand, I have no problem with homosexuals; in fact, I have multiple homosexual friends. The issue I have is with homosexuality, the concept, the idea.

I do not agree with the said chapter in Leviticus, as I understand it; I am going to look further into this "execution of the sinners."

 

[Teran]

It is my stance that homosexuality is a choice.

Why, if one is born gay, is there not a single homosexual in my church?"

Maybe because they haven't come out?

You know, sort of how I'm not gay to most people that know me. Also, you fail to realise that many homosexuals become disillusioned with religion when they feel like something they have no control over is so condemnable.

Oh and here's all for no gay Christians.

Allahu akbar.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ry-in-Anglican-churchs-first-gay-wedding.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_bishops

 

[Ocean]

It is my stance that homosexuality is a choice.

Why, if one is born gay, is there not a single homosexual in my church? Out of hundreds of people, not a single person likes anyone of the same sex. Why is this? It is because the way of life that they embrace and what they have been taught does not allow this; therefore, they did not choose that path.

don't be a ******* please.
A) don't automatically assume everyone at your church is straight unless you have gone around asking every single member, which even then isn't exact because maybe some won't admit they are gay.
B) why the hell would a gay person go to a place where they aren't accepted?
C) don't compare your church to the world. just because in a building full of christians, you don't know that any are gay, doesn't mean that there aren't other gay christians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Robinson

 

[Alus]

This thread makes me feel awful.

 

[Melomaniacal]

It is my stance that homosexuality is a choice.

Why, if one is born gay, is there not a single homosexual in my church? Out of hundreds of people, not a single person likes anyone of the same sex. Why is this? It is because the way of life that they embrace and what they have been taught does not allow this; therefore, they did not choose that path.

Please understand, I have no problem with homosexuals; in fact, I have multiple homosexual friends. The issue I have is with homosexuality, the concept, the idea.

I do not agree with the said chapter in Leviticus, as I understand it; I am going to look further into this "execution of the sinners."

1) Perhaps they are afraid to come out, or even accept their own sexuality. If I were a homosexual and went to church, the thought of the entire church knowing of my homosexuality would scare me more than anything.
2) Obviously there are fewer homosexuals then heterosexuals in the world, so... yeah. Could just be a bad sample.
3) A lot may be, and you just don't know it.

It's really... just not a choice. There are plenty of gay Christians who can't change their sexuality. There are plenty who try. Some cannot, some think they do, but live in denial. It's kind of like the whole psychological thing where if everyone around you constantly tells you that you are something, eventually you will believe it (if everyone I know and love tells me I'm gay every day of my life, eventually my brain may trick me into thinking it's true).

I mean, even just thinking through this logically... why would someone chose to be homosexual? Could you chose to be a homosexual? Are you implying that everyone has some latent attraction to the same sex that you can either acknowledge or ignore? Me being a heterosexual, I do not feel any real romantic attraction to the same sex. That's not something I can just change. I can't wake up one day and say "I think I'm going to be a homosexual now." No... I'm heterosexual, and that's just the way I am. I never decided on being heterosexual, just as you didn't.

I feel like some people need to find the difference between a choice, and a realization. It's easy to get them confused. Someone coming to a realization of their sexuality doesn't mean it was a choice. The thing is, in today's society, it's hard to be a homosexual. Some people struggle with the idea that they may be homosexual, so they ignore it, or force themselves into being heterosexual. But the day that one realizes that they may be a homosexual, is not the day where they made the choice.

I understand that you may not be homophobic, but I do feel that there is some misunderstanding with the idea of homosexuality.

And let me reiterate, no flaming in here (Ocean). Respect, please.

 

[§witch]

Only stopping by (have to leave in, like, 10 seconds) to mention something:



No more of this. Seriously, if it gets any worse, I'm getting the thread locked.

Stay calm and relaxed, please.

Yes sir, mini-mod. I honestly don't give a **** if you get this locked.

EDIT: Though I do greatly appreciate the fact that you are the only other person in this thread who isn't a grade-A ******.

This statement just makes you look like a homophobe. People choose being gay because they find members of their sex attractive. Plus, stop flaming. You're going to get this thread locked.

Oh my god, how stupid can you be? People are attracted to members of the same sex because of their orientation, not the other way around. You don't wake up one morning and go: 'You know what? I think I'm going to like guys today.'

 

[Melomaniacal]

Yes sir, mini-mod. I honestly don't give a **** if you get this locked.

But I, and some others, do care.
And it won't be me getting this locked, it'll be you.

Just relax, really.

 

[§witch]

I don't get worked up over the internet, though apparently this is serious business to you.

 

[Melomaniacal]

I don't get worked up over the internet, though apparently this is serious business to you.

Well, your posts point elsewhere.

Either way, I just want to have a reasonable discussion. That's all, don't make anything else of it.

 

[§witch]

It's extremely difficult to have a reasonable discussion with ******* running amok.

 

[Teran]

Switch, stop trolling, stop flaming.

Really, just shut up and take your nonsense to Fox Social or something.

 

[§witch]

I'm sure the fox board wouldn't appreciate that comment, Teran.

 

[Kholdstare]

Yo §witch I know you're argueing and Ima let you finish, but Bill Clinton had the greatest argument of all time!

 

[§witch]

Of All Time!

 

[Crimson King]

It is my stance that homosexuality is a choice.

Why, if one is born gay, is there not a single homosexual in my church? Out of hundreds of people, not a single person likes anyone of the same sex. Why is this? It is because the way of life that they embrace and what they have been taught does not allow this; therefore, they did not choose that path.

Roughly 10% of the population in America will designate themselves homosexual. That number is a REALLY rough estimate off some poll in 2002, and it only checks from 15 - 44, but using that, and knowing that there are about 300,000,000 Americans, that means, roughly 30 million, or 1 in 10 Americans. Now, that is the number of people who are openly gay. If nearly all religious, especially Christianity, homosexuals are, at the very least, sinners, and in some churches, are compared to the absolute evil.

In other words, you argument proves NOTHING. Since most churches aren't exactly tolerant of gays, most gays won't go to church. The ones that do are not going to be open about it. There are several people who came out around me that had they not, I wouldn't have known.

 

[Ganonsburg]

Until we have hardcore scientific proof that being gay is genetic (you can have unbalanced hormones and still be straight, I know lots of people like that. Don't pull that one), as in traceable to a specific strain of DNA, agreed upon by scientists from both sides (not college scientists, evolutionary scientists, or creationist scientists, the kinds who dismiss proof of alternate possibilities in favor of things we already "know" who are biased as crap, but scientists who are actually trying to find truth) then we can't say whether it's a choice or whether it's genetic.

It's just as bad to say someone's stupid for saying it's a choice as you think it is for them to say it's a choice. We just don't have the data available to make such conclusions.

BTW, 1 in 10 is a huge number. And since that was in 2002, I'd say the number has probably gone up given recent events.

BTW, I could say that homosexuality is a choice because if it were genetic, the genes wouldn't keep getting passed down (at least not at the rate that 10% of the population is gay). Obviously, gay couples won't have babies. You might say that they've been pressured into marrying the other sex, and thus unwillingly passing down their genes, but such pressure hasn't been around forever. Sodom obviously didn't have it. In fact, many places all around the world didn't have it until the past few centuries.

That's my counter logic. But again, we honestly can't say for sure until we have SOLID data.

And we certainly don't need to call anyone stupid over what we don't know.

 

[pyrotek7x7]

I'm an atheist, and recently I tried reading through the bible.

Somewhere through Genesis, I came to realize...according to these stories, God isn't really that all-powerful. He simply tells all these people to do his bidding, when he should be able to do it easily himself. He also seems to have a very short temper.

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding something here.

EDIT: Whoever says that nobody would have any good reason to "choose" to be gay, you're horribly, horribly wrong. Nowadays, homosexuality is almost "glamorous," and a lot of people might do it solely for attention.

Despite, I still think it's something that occurs around birth.

 

[Scott!]

I'm an atheist, and recently I tried reading through the bible.

Somewhere through Genesis, I came to realize...according to these stories, God isn't really that all-powerful. He simply tells all these people to do his bidding, when he should be able to do it easily himself. He also seems to have a very short temper.

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding something here.

EDIT: Whoever says that nobody would have any good reason to "choose" to be gay, you're horribly, horribly wrong. Nowadays, homosexuality is almost "glamorous," and a lot of people might do it solely for attention.

Despite, I still think it's something that occurs around birth.

Ah yes, of course. It's the glamor and attention that makes people be gay. I know all my gay friends would say that's the reason. I'm sure they didn't care about being treated as second-class citizens and being denied basic human rights in 40+ states. They didn't mind the risks that come with being gay. The stereotyping and hate-mongering against gays doesn't make them angry at all. Oh, and they of course wanted to risk being abused or killed just for being gay and out. /sarcasm

Seriously though, no. Just no. I've never met anyone who's chosen to be gay. I've met people who chose to embrace their homosexuality rather than suppress it, and people who weren't sure where they stood for a while. Do you actually know of anyone who's ever chosen to be gay because of the glamor? And would you happen to know how they feel about that choice today. There are far better and safer ways of getting attention. I'm sorry, but I refuse to accept your theory unless you have actual examples. Also, you suggest that there are good reasons to choose to be gay. Care to enlighten us? And don't say it's for the attention unless you've got examples.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I'm going to carefully attempt to briefly touch the homosexual topic, without insulting anyone. My statements might be taken as if I'm trying to start something, but I'm not. If I'm using shortened versions of homosexual it's because frankly I don't want to type out the long word every time. >_> I might as well throw in there I'm a Christian myself. Have been for over 13 years. This is simply my standpoint on the issue.

I don't think it's possible for being homo to be natural. Let's boil down "natural" to it's most basic, scientific level: what do you need to do for your race to survive? As humans, we must do the following: Eat, sleep, drink, find shelter, reproduce (If you're a Christian, you also believe we were created to worship God so it's natural as well, but that's a debate within itself, one that isn't relevant to this point here). If any of those links are broken, the human race stops at that gene branch. If every gene branch suddenly stopped doing one of the following, humanity would stop existing. Homos can't reproduce. Same gender relationships = no children. No children = no humanity. If you put a 100 homo people together in a village, the village would not expand a single generation. If you believe in evolution (I don't believe in the big changes like ape to man, etc but bare with me), you could argue it's a set in the human development. But that doesn't make sense, a step in evolution that renders gene branches unable to reproduce due to their orientation? That would be a step backwards if anything, not a step forwards. I simply see no reason in any way, shape, or form, that it can be natural.

I could further this argument with my own personal opinions about what homosexuality is, but I know it will offend people, so I'll avoid doing so.

 

[Alus]

I have read in a book somewhere that some animals can be homo as well.
Not saying that a few animals automatically defines natural.

Actually... What is natural?

Is this another way of saying "common"? If so, then why can't homos be common?

 

[SuperBowser]

Everytime someone attempts to use ''science'' to justify why homosexuality is not natural, a piece of me dies inside.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I have read in a book somewhere that some animals can be homo as well.

Never heard of it happening. The race wouldn't survive if that was the case.

Everytime someone attempts to use ''science'' to justify why homosexuality is not natural, a piece of me dies inside.

Then prove it wrong instead of just saying you don't like it please.

 

[Teran]

Never heard of it happening. The race wouldn't survive if that was the case.



Then prove it wrong instead of just saying you don't like it please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RlTAyNI8WE&feature=player_embedded

 

[SuperBowser]

I would prove you wrong, but your answer is already in this topic.

edit: decided I may as well provide a source that actually understands science. The American Psychological Association: http://apahelpcenter.org/articles/pdf.php?id=31

What Is Sexual Orientation?
Sexual orientation is an enduring emotional, romantic, sexual, or affectional attraction toward others. It is easily distinguished from other components of sexuality including biological sex, gender identity (the psychological sense of being male or female), and the social gender role (adherence to cultural norms for feminine and masculine behavior).

Is Sexual Orientation a Choice?
No, human beings cannot choose to be either gay or straight. For most people, sexual orientation emerges in early adolescence without any prior sexual experience. Although we can choose whether to act on our feelings, psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RlTAyNI8WE&feature=player_embedded

Can't look at vids now, at college. But if it's with homo animals, it just fits in with my whole theory, which I can't really explain here because it will just cause flame wars. -_-

 

[Reaver197]

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3008-homosexuality-is-biological-suggests-gay-sheep-study.html

Latest evidence suggests that homosexuality is a result of how the brain develops, which would probably be strongly influenced by genes and environmental factors. Either way, homosexuality seems to be as "unnatural" and as much of a choice as is having ADHD or Parkinson's.

 

[Kantō]

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3008-homosexuality-is-biological-suggests-gay-sheep-study.html

Latest evidence suggests that homosexuality is a result of how the brain develops, which would probably be strongly influenced by genes and environmental factors. Either way, homosexuality seems to be as "unnatural" and as much of a choice as is having ADHD or Parkinson's.

then why do gay woman say its a choice and gay men say that its not a choice?

 

[Teran]

then why do gay woman say its a choice and gay men say that its not a choice?

Real lesbians don't choose to be that way.
Some women might do that for whatever reason, maybe to spite men, who knows.

You have to remember though, being a lesbian isn't as difficult as being gay. If a woman wants to lead a lesbian lifestyle even though she isn't one, we all know that "grill on grill akshun iz hawt."

Homosexual males take a lot more abuse than homosexual females. However, you might want to give actual examples of women who say their homosexuality is a choice, because thus far I have heard of none.

 

[Kantō]

Real lesbians don't choose to be that way.
Some women might do that for whatever reason, maybe to spite men, who knows.

You have to remember though, being a lesbian isn't as difficult as being gay. If a woman wants to lead a lesbian lifestyle even though she isn't one, we all know that "grill on grill akshun iz hawt."

Homosexual males take a lot more abuse than homosexual females. However, you might want to give actual examples of women who say their homosexuality is a choice, because thus far I have heard of none.

i know a bunch of gay and lesbian people and it seems like the girls are kinda normal actually, but the guys are total flamers, eww

 

[Teran]

i know a bunch of gay and lesbian people and it seems like the girls are kinda normal actually, but the guys are total flamers, eww

Well that's their personality, not their sexuality.

 

[Kantō]

Well that's their personality, not their sexuality.

i suppose your right

 

[Alus]

Never heard of it happening. The race wouldn't survive if that was the case.

Then why are we, the human race who most noticeably posses homosexual activity alive now?

Everytime someone attempts to use ''science'' to justify why homosexuality is not natural, a piece of me dies inside.

Would you prefer religion?


And to the "Whether or not homosexuality is a choice or not" issue.

When you are attracted to something. You are attracted to it PERIOD.

Do you choose whether to be attracted to something or not? No

Can you pretend you like something else? Yes, this happens all the time.

You don't actually choose what you like, you just find it amusing.

Can what you admire change? It's possible but not fully under you're control. It's possible to start to dislike/ lose interest in something and prefer something else.

 

[Zero Beat]

I have read in a book somewhere that some animals can be homo as well.
Not saying that a few animals automatically defines natural.

Actually... What is natural?

Is this another way of saying "common"? If so, then why can't homos be common?

Commonness, natural, the orderly; they're all based on existing conditions.

Imagine that in a different universe, the sun actually revolved around the planets, and instead of it being a huge explosion, it was a bright disc spinning around the planets. In that universe, the sun shaped like a disc revolving around the planets would be "order."

 

[Ganonsburg]

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3008-homosexuality-is-biological-suggests-gay-sheep-study.html

Latest evidence suggests that homosexuality is a result of how the brain develops, which would probably be strongly influenced by genes and environmental factors. Either way, homosexuality seems to be as "unnatural" and as much of a choice as is having ADHD or Parkinson's.

I hope people have heard of perfect pitch. It's where people are able to distinguish different notes by listening to them, and such people can name the notes. They can listen to a song and then write down sheet music for it without listening to the song a hundred times and without using an instrument as a reference.

These people develop the "skill" in early childhood. It develops along with language. If you're exposed to multiple languages consistently during such a time (2-4 yrs I believe) you'll know those languages fairly well. Learning piano (or any instrument) at an early age and being exposed to music at early ages in heavy doses will develop this "skill."

I'd say homosexuality is similar. Certain events early on in life may prompt a child to making actions later on that define them as a homo.

Just saying. It makes more sense than it being genetic.

 

[Firus]

This thread makes me feel awful.

Same for me, but what did you expect? It's a thread about religion in general and has now been narrowed down to a debate on homosexuality.

Seriously. I think we need a new UB type graph...

There we go.

(Credit to Frown for the original idea.)

 

[SuperBowser]

Would you prefer religion?

Yes. At least it isn't intelectually dishonest.

 

[Reaver197]

I hope people have heard of perfect pitch. It's where people are able to distinguish different notes by listening to them, and such people can name the notes. They can listen to a song and then write down sheet music for it without listening to the song a hundred times and without using an instrument as a reference.

These people develop the "skill" in early childhood. It develops along with language. If you're exposed to multiple languages consistently during such a time (2-4 yrs I believe) you'll know those languages fairly well. Learning piano (or any instrument) at an early age and being exposed to music at early ages in heavy doses will develop this "skill."

I'd say homosexuality is similar. Certain events early on in life may prompt a child to making actions later on that define them as a homo.

Just saying. It makes more sense than it being genetic.

Environmental factors can lead to different genes being expressed or suppressed. That's why it's so hard to determine exactly where environmental factors end and genetic factors begin. They're integrated with one another.

Perfect pitch is very much dependent upon genes, as I recall from a study done where they found that various Asian populations had similar percentages of people who had perfect pitch, irregardless of whether they were a tonal language culture or not, and had a higher percentage of people with perfect pitch than other ethnicities.

But, yes, I should've equated homosexuality more with things like perfect pitch and synesthesia, rather than ADHD and Parkinson's.

 

[kirbywizard]

Sometimes I wonder why I bother reading threads like these when it doesn't change that fact that I'm going to be treated less then a person for the people I love.