Bone Counts & Minimum Bone Requirements

[superyoshi888]

Kind of. How many bones does Ganon's sword have?

Nevermind, just checked. It has only 4. This is perfect, because the model I want to use has 8 bones. I should like, get started.

 

[AMKalmar]

Minimum Bone Requirement (counts from 1) - Character Name
-----Bone Index (counts from 0) - Bone Name

31 - Red Alloy
	30 - RHandN
	31 - GlowRArmM
	32 - GlowCoreM
	33 - ThrowN

31 - Yellow Alloy
	30 - RHandN
	31 - GlowRHandM
	32 - GlowBodyM
	33 - ThrowN

33 - Green Alloy
	32 - RToeN
	33 - ThrowN

36 - Blue Alloy
	35 - RHandN
	36 - GlowRHandM
	37 - GlowBodyM
	38 - ThrowN

37 - Ice Climbers
	36 - RHandN
	37 - R3rdNa
	38 - R3rdNb
	39 - RHaveN
	40 - RThumbNa
	41 - RThumbNb
	42 - ShirttailN
	43 - LShirttailN
	44 - RShirttailN
	45 - ThrowN

39 - Olimar
	38 - RHandN
	39 - R1stNa
	40 - R2ndNa
	41 - RHaveN
	42 - RThumbNa
	43 - RHandNb
	44 - WaistNb
	45 - ThrowN

40 - Pikachu
	39 - RMimiNb (right ear tip)
	40 - RShoulderN
	41 - RShoulderJ
	42 - RArmJ
	43 - RHandN
	44 - RFingerN
	45 - RThumbN
	46 - RShoulderNb
	47 - ThrowN

44 - Samus
	43 - RArmJ
	44 - GunM
	45 - RHijiN
	46 - ShpereM
	47 - ThrowN

We need to figure out what is significant about the right hand when these characters load. With green alloy, the right toe comes after the right hand so I can see why it is the significant bone, but why is pika's right ear significant when the hand comes after?

Pretty easy to find most character's minimum bone requirements now since RHandN is most likely the significant bone. But I want to find out why, and then how to change it so we can swap anyone onto anyone.

 

[Eldiran]

We need to figure out what is significant about the right hand when these characters load. With green alloy, the right toe comes after the right hand so I can see why it is the significant bone, but why is pika's right ear significant when the hand comes after?

Pretty easy to find most character's minimum bone requirements now since RHandN is most likely the significant bone. But I want to find out why, and then how to change it so we can swap anyone onto anyone.

Good research.

Do characters usually hold items in their right hand or their left?

 

[AMKalmar]

Usually right but samus holds in the left. And pika definitely holds items with it's ear.

Also alloys don't hold items so I don't think items have anything to do with it.

 

[humble]

Just curious, but didn't little mac work at 29 bones, but Tingle failed at 28?

 

[AMKalmar]

Don't know, I'll test some more.

So I put Goroh, Barbara and Little Mac over Red and Yellow Alloy. Most failed as expected, but Barbara worked over Yellow Alloy...

 

[Joe-kun]

This is probably the wrong place to ask this, and forgive me for sounding like a complete idiot, but the Electrivire post made me curious - Is it possible to take a character (Yellow Alloy, for example,) and add to it? Like big hair, clothing that extends past the model's shape (like a dress,) stuff like that. I feel stupid for asking this here, since it has nothing to do with bones, but I'm not exactly sure what thread it would go into.

 

[AMKalmar]

For now your question would go here.

We can't add to models yet and we can't import models. You can swap a characters and their articles/weapons with models that are already in the game, and you can mess with the vertices of those models to change their shape. As for attaching articles to characters... I'm trying to figure that out right now. Someone else probably knows how already.

 

[Joe-kun]

Thank you. I was just curious, and thanks for the link. =D

 

[Power Marshall]

Hello. I just tested Lugia on Pikachu, and it did not work.

Lugia:

Diddy Kong
Metaknight
Pikachu

ZakoBall

 

[E-Jolteon]

Groudon works on Olimar. Crashes on forward special though.

Olimar has high compatability.

Meowth however, crashes on Sheik, Squirtle, and Olimar even.

 

[DoB04]

ive been trying to get mew to load on pikachu throughout the whole day and i havent been successful... i managed to replace pika's model with mew's, replaced his texture and removed the eye textures... i replaced the wait animation and i keep freezing after pika's entrance (he comes out the pokeball invisible btw lol)
so did somebody make a mistake or am i just doing something wrong? (i must inform you that this is the first time ive attempted model swapping, so its most likely my fault, yet i read through this topic and havent seen anybody post that mew loads on pika like it says on the first post, only on olimar...)
EDIT: yeah i just tested olimar, it worked, i guess OP confused olimar with pikachu so i suggest you change it... unless theres some special procedure to get him to load on pikachu...

 

[AMKalmar]

A lot of pokemon are invisible when you swap them. Don't know why. Mew loads on pika. That's all I'm testing here. I assume it will crash if you spawn an article or try to grab but that's unrelated to this. Mew also loads on olimar but I don't need to write that because olimar has a lower minimum bone requirement than pika.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

Anyone tried Deoxys? Freezes on Olimar and Metaknight, but I didn't try to get rid of the pikmin or Meta's sword.

The problem could lie within bone names; ALL of Deoxys' bones have unique names, besides TopN TransN and XRotN.

 

[AMKalmar]

Deoxys has 34 bones so will only work on Yellow Red or Green Alloy.

 

[StarWaffle]

Starmie is actualy Staryu right?


also could someone test if he works on anyone for me, i dont have my wii atm

I'm going to be working on Starfy and since his bone count sucks i'll either have to somehow edit kirby itno looking like starfy, or use staryu and shrink his limbs a bit.

unless starfy will miraculously work on someone.

 

[AMKalmar]

Starmie/staryu or whatever, will also only work on Yellow, Red, or Green Alloy. You just have to look at the lists.

 

[fortwaffles]

an anyone find a mdl0 with enough bones to fit a character, but each bone has an object/ polygon that can be transparent, and they are only assigned to one bone? I might look into taboo... but if this is found, i may need a few ppl with good animations

 

[kailmanning]

i can confirm weavile over yellow alloy, here is my video of him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm32ca3TWVY

weird thing is weavile has 32 bones and Y.A (Yellow Alloy) has 34 Hmm....

BTW I Would Also appreciate if someone could tell me how to make original characters animations work for a model swap? or do the animations have to be made from scratch?

 

[DoB04]

A lot of pokemon are invisible when you swap them. Don't know why. Mew loads on pika. That's all I'm testing here. I assume it will crash if you spawn an article or try to grab but that's unrelated to this. Mew also loads on olimar but I don't need to write that because olimar has a lower minimum bone requirement than pika.

hmmm thats really strange... to me i never get passed the entrance animation, and i cant seem to make him load even in training mode... could you send me the replaced pikachu files?

 

[StarWaffle]

3 - Bronzor
7 - Diglet
7 - Gastly
8 - Aron
8 - Magnezone
11 - Carvanhna
12 - Caterpie
13 - Duskull
14 - Lotad
14 - Munchlax
15 - Hoppip
16 - Gengar
17 - Chikorita
17 - Drifblim
17 - Dugtrio
17 - Piloswine
17 - Psyduck
18 - Elekid
19 - Bulbasaur
19 - Drifloon
19 - Golbat
19 - Snorlax
20 - Cyndaquil
20 - Geodude
20 - Magikarp
20 - Raichu
20 - Shroomish
21 - Empoleon
21 - Spinirak
22 - Aipom
22 - Bidoof
22 - Blastoise
22 - Butterfree
23 - Haunter
23 - Hitmontop
23 - Scizor
23 - Tediursa
23 - Wailord
24 - Absol
24 - Camerupt
24 - Charmander
24 - Chimchar
24 - Corphish
24 - Farfetch'd
24 - Gyarados
25 - Crogunk
25 - Golduck
25 - Groudon
25 - Marrowack
25 - Phanpy
25 - Treeko
26 - Ambipom
26 - Bellosom
26 - Buizel
26 - Delibird
27 - Aerodactyl
27 - Brelloom
27 - Celebi
27 - Eevee
27 - Electabuzz
27 - Jolteon
28 - Feraligator
28 - Garchomp
28 - Hitmonlee
29 - Abra
29 - Espeon
29 - Glaceon
29 - Gliscor
29 - Shinx
31 - Flareon
31 - Golem
31 - Salamance
33 - Dragonite
33 - Electrive
33 - Flygon
33 - Kirlia
34 - Jirachi
34 - Machamp
35 - Blaziken
35 - Heatran
36 - Darkrai
36 - Deoxys
36 - Infernape
37 - Ninetails

Just so all his hard work dosnt get lost in the mdl0 thread i think this should go in your op

 

[AMKalmar]

There are a lot of games that use MDL0s and I'm not going to fill the OP with lists of bone-counts from each one. Not right now anyways. The goal of this was to find out why characters have a minimum amount of required bones, and how to change that number. When someone figures out how to decrease that number, the amount of swappable characters more than doubles.

 

[fortwaffles]

I have successfully edited a bone.
I have put data for a bone at the end of lucario's (pokepark) model, and it loaded correctly in brawlbox.
this was kinda easy, only having to change a few pointers, but my next step is adding bones.

 

[leafbarrett]

I have successfully edited a bone.
I have put data for a bone at the end of lucario's (pokepark) model, and it loaded correctly in brawlbox.
this was kinda easy, only having to change a few pointers, but my next step is adding bones.

o_o Seriously? You added a bone?

 

[fortwaffles]

o_o Seriously? You added a bone?

just did! and here is proof:

if you think it's photo shopped, well, it's not.

 

[leafbarrett]

O.O So we can add extra bones to meet the bone requirement now? (I'm pretty sure we can't attach the bones to actual polygons yet... can we?)

 

[DoB04]

lol what can't fortwaffles do? xD

 

[mariorocks64]

Fortwaffles is a beast! How did you add bones? This could make wonders for my Toad project and maybe Bomberman!

 

[ds22]

*Thinks of Bomberman and Trophy's*.

 

[Smash Bro]

I have successfully edited a bone.

 

[fortwaffles]

well, here's the deal, it is kinda... time consuming, so im just considering making a program to do it. and no, we cant attach verticies yet, but i may try to see about adding the bones to the beginning of the hierarchy, so we can have good TransN bones
also, havent tested it in brawl, but im gonna try with one of the GHZ characters

 

[leafbarrett]

well, here's the deal, it is kinda... time consuming, so im just considering making a program to do it. and no, we cant attach verticies yet, but i may try to see about adding the bones to the beginning of the hierarchy, so we can have good TransN bones
also, havent tested it in brawl, but im gonna try with one of the GHZ characters

Gardevoir over Zelda instead of Olimar... <3!!

 

[fortwaffles]

and knuclkes has successfully loaded on pikachu :3

 

[Smash Bro]

Nice. I don't see why everyone needs to find good TransN bones, though. If it's unnecessary to rename every single bone of new models, why's the TransN bone so different? I'm probably just not getting something... :/

 

[fortwaffles]

Nice. I don't see why everyone needs to find good TransN bones, though. If it's unnecessary to rename every single bone of new models, why's the TransN bone so different? I'm probably just not getting something... :/

it's the index of that bone. TransN bone indexes need to match between character, and new character
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBlDGe0g258
yeah, here's GHZ's Knuckles in brawl

 

[Smash Bro]

...Really? I have a Blaziken (by mario6420072), and it has no renamed TransN bone. It works over Red Alloy just fine...

EDIT: Wow, I don't have any of these files. How did I miss all these?

[SPOILER]PM brres files to me?[/SPOILER]
3 - Bronzor  
7 - Diglet  
7 - Gastly
8 - Aron
8 - Magnezone
11 - Carvanhna
14 - Lotad
14 - Munchlax
15 - Hoppip
17 - Chikorita
17 - Drifblim
17 - Dugtrio
17 - Piloswine
17 - Psyduck
18 - Elekid
19 - Bulbasaur
19 - Drifloon
19 - Golbat
19 - Snorlax
20 - Cyndaquil
20 - Shroomish
21 - Empoleon
21 - Spinirak
22 - Aipom
22 - Bidoof
22 - Butterfree
23 - Haunter
23 - Tediursa
24 - Camerupt
24 - Charmander
24 - Chimchar
24 - Corphish
24 - Farfetch'd
25 - Crogunk
25 - Golduck
25 - Groudon
25 - Marrowack
25 - Phanpy
26 - Ambipom
26 - Bellosom
26 - Buizel
26 - Delibird
27 - Brelloom
27 - Celebi
27 - Electabuzz
28 - Feraligator
28 - Garchomp
29 - Glaceon
29 - Gliscor
31 - Golem
33 - Dragonite
33 - Electrive
33 - Flygon
33 - Kirlia
34 - Jirachi
34 - Machamp
35 - Heatran
36 - Infernape
37 - Ninetails
[SPOILER]PM brres files to me?[/SPOILER]

 

[fortwaffles]

...Really? I have a Blaziken (by mario6420072), and it has no renamed TransN bone. It works over Red Alloy just fine...

then it must have matched already, or the bone of that index has the movement in the animations.
I loaded pika-knuckles with sonics animations, and most of them work great

 

[pikazz]

Fortwaffles: great work on adding bones :3
if you have time, wanna post an tutorial? x3
just want to test, even if it are time consuming :3

I have that feeling my precious dusknoir will be playable soon >w<

 

[fortwaffles]

Fortwaffles: great work on adding bones :3
if you have time, wanna post an tutorial? x3
just want to test, even if it are time consuming :3

I have that feeling my precious dusknoir will be playable soon >w<

no. i will not post a tutorial
http://www.mediafire.com/?dttmnkm2y0j

 

[ds22]

no. i will not post a tutorial
http://www.mediafire.com/?dttmnkm2y0j

Thank you!
Going to try Bomberman.