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Official Book of [MU]dora Index.

tibs7

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Messages
2,886
Huuuuge trouble with falco.
he combos us his jab is just amazing. He can edgeguard. And most importantly he has a ridiculously safe reflector.

It seems our reads are alot more dangerous.

some tips would be appreciated :)
 

Elessar

Nouyons TO
Joined
Apr 20, 2010
Messages
2,624
Location
Paraguay
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Veritiel
3DS FC
3711-8466-0515
Huuuuge trouble with falco.
he combos us his jab is just amazing. He can edgeguard. And most importantly he has a ridiculously safe reflector.

It seems our reads are alot more dangerous.

some tips would be appreciated :)
My experience with this MU so far has been similar to what Brawl's used to be. That means, try to keep him at Zair distance. This is ideal now since his laser's hitlag means that if he shoots we can move in and punish easily. We're out of reach from his attacks and even his reflector. He can't reflect the zair and just in case, he's within easy reach of our projectiles, in that he won't be able to spam the reflector fast enough to stop them on reaction. Try to keep him at that distance and be more aggresive than before. It is still a nasty fight, and expect to get hit and comboed. Also, try to go for a gimp when possible, it is harder but still not impossible.

Finally, it would be best probably if you create a new thread with the tag [MU]. Something like [MU] Falco or something like that so that more people can participate and the discussion be richer. Specially since this thread is bound to be closed soon and all MU related discussions derived to threads of their own.
 

Vidiot825

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 23, 2014
Messages
62
3DS FC
0275-8558-7913
Huuuuge trouble with falco.
he combos us his jab is just amazing. He can edgeguard. And most importantly he has a ridiculously safe reflector.

It seems our reads are alot more dangerous.

some tips would be appreciated :)
As an added note as to what's said above, his reflector actually ISNT ridiculously safe, contrary to what most people think. There's a window after he throws out the reflector that an arrow can hit before he throws out another reflector. Use this as you want, I try and condition them to stop reflecting all together by baiting it with a fully charged arrow.

Fox on the other hand... A lot of zairs and neutral airs, very defensive match up for link since he has a lasting reflector.

Against both these characters I like to lay bombs on the floor while zairing so they can't rush me down immediately since the bombs have a small bounce animation that will explode if they run into it.
 

tibs7

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Messages
2,886
I know it has a window of vulnerability But it's very small.
Having an item in hand limits so much against him I feel.
Zair distance is something I'll be keeping in mind though, thanks guys
 

TheBuzzSaw

Young Link Extraordinaire
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
10,479
It's fine. I need to dedicate my energy to starting my All Link All The Time stream. #ForGlory
 

KenMeister

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 9, 2014
Messages
1,122
NNID
KenMeister
3DS FC
3609-1224-8364
So...The Ganon boards are convinced that the Link matchup seems to be in their favor, and while I play Ganon and not so much Link, I have a hard time imagining it being in his favor. Any thoughts? They seem to say that Ganon beats Link at midrange, but I have a hard time seeing that happen at top level play due to how long it takes to get past tools like zair (Ganon is tall lol) and his projectiles in general, since they seem to be easier to whiff on him than most other matchups due to his bad mobility.
 

TheBuzzSaw

Young Link Extraordinaire
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
10,479
So...The Ganon boards are convinced that the Link matchup seems to be in their favor, and while I play Ganon and not so much Link, I have a hard time imagining it being in his favor. Any thoughts? They seem to say that Ganon beats Link at midrange, but I have a hard time seeing that happen at top level play due to how long it takes to get past tools like zair (Ganon is tall lol) and his projectiles in general, since they seem to be easier to whiff on him than most other matchups due to his bad mobility.
Ganondorf is definitely dangerous. I've run into a few solid Ganondorfs who just tank all my projectiles and punish me. However, if I stay patient, mix things up, and throw grabs in at critical moments, Ganondorf falls apart. It's just a tricky fight because, unlike against most other characters, making a single mistake is costly (usually your entire stock). You have to stay sharp. Overall, assuming both players are on the ball, I'd say it leans in Link's favor.
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
780
They might actually be on to something, Zair doesn't autocancel anymore and they absolutely have the tools to power through our spam and end us.
 

Zelkam

Resident Wizard
Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Messages
881
Location
Knoxville, TN
Switch FC
1068-8431-0431
They might actually be on to something, Zair doesn't autocancel anymore and they absolutely have the tools to power through our spam and end us.
Can we really say that it doesn't autocancel anymore? Because it's really just the general nerf to landings that we're referring to which affected all moves that autocancel. So in reality, it still autocancels but autocanceling is just a bit laggier.
 

KenMeister

Smash Lord
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Oct 9, 2014
Messages
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KenMeister
3DS FC
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W
Ganondorf is definitely dangerous. I've run into a few solid Ganondorfs who just tank all my projectiles and punish me. However, if I stay patient, mix things up, and throw grabs in at critical moments, Ganondorf falls apart. It's just a tricky fight because, unlike against most other characters, making a single mistake is costly (usually your entire stock). You have to stay sharp. Overall, assuming both players are on the ball, I'd say it leans in Link's favor.
Well to be fair, a single mistake using ANYONE against Ganon can cost a stock, it's been this way since Melee (Brawl doesn't exist). Characters like Sheik have it easy overwhelming Ganon, but one or two mistakes is all it takes to end her stock.
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
780
Can we really say that it doesn't autocancel anymore? Because it's really just the general nerf to landings that we're referring to which affected all moves that autocancel. So in reality, it still autocancels but autocanceling is just a bit laggier.
What we're discussing now actually belongs in the metagame thread, but I'll say it here anyway.

Autocancelling is still a thing and from the right height can still be done, it's just more restrictive. Note the difference in landing a full hop Nair and a short hop Nair, one has lag, brief lag, but there it is. Zair has more lag than Nair on landing, it's just enough that a missed Zair can let Ganon in on us where previously we could immediately shield or hop backward
 

TheBuzzSaw

Young Link Extraordinaire
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
10,479
Let's just challenge the Ganondorf boards to a Link vs Ganondorf tournament. Get some stats. :D
 

Zelkam

Resident Wizard
Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Messages
881
Location
Knoxville, TN
Switch FC
1068-8431-0431
What we're discussing now actually belongs in the metagame thread, but I'll say it here anyway.

Autocancelling is still a thing and from the right height can still be done, it's just more restrictive. Note the difference in landing a full hop Nair and a short hop Nair, one has lag, brief lag, but there it is. Zair has more lag than Nair on landing, it's just enough that a missed Zair can let Ganon in on us where previously we could immediately shield or hop backward
Just watched my video frame by frame to see what the landing lag was for these moves and here's the results:
Zair - 9 frames of landing lag
SH Nair - 11 frames of landing lag
SH Bair - 6 frames of landing lag

So it seems that it is laggier than I thought. Especially considering zair in brawl only had 2 frames of landing lag. But it is still better than Nair by a bit.
 
Last edited:

Officious

Teh Scrub
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
15
Location
SoCal
While the name of the thread isn't exactly [MU] Link vs Cpt Falcon, I think I've got another Matchup for the [MU]dora:

http: //smashboards . com /threads/mu-mutiny-help-with-taking-out-the-captain-falcon.384444/
 

Epok

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Messages
590
Location
Grand Rapids MI
Huuuuge trouble with falco.
he combos us his jab is just amazing. He can edgeguard. And most importantly he has a ridiculously safe reflector.

It seems our reads are alot more dangerous.

some tips would be appreciated :)
I just played against a Falco last night. The best advice I can give you is be patient. Pay attention to his jab combo. If you shield it make sure it ends fully then punish.

At low percents you should be able to shield grab up throw to up tilt/up smash. If he is using reflector a lot, boomerang is you best projectile because you will only get hit by the wind box and not the boomerang itself.

Wait for him to commit to an approach before you throw a boomerang or bomb.

Try jumping back then projectile/zair for spacing, make use of jab attack as much as you can. Lots of Falcos approach with dash attack. Using that strategy can help punish that approach.

Hope this helps.
 

Elessar

Nouyons TO
Joined
Apr 20, 2010
Messages
2,624
Location
Paraguay
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Veritiel
3DS FC
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While the name of the thread isn't exactly [MU] Link vs Cpt Falcon, I think I've got another Matchup for the [MU]dora:

http: //smashboards . com /threads/mu-mutiny-help-with-taking-out-the-captain-falcon.384444/
Updated. Also, might be a good idea to get a ganon MU thread going.
 

TheBuzzSaw

Young Link Extraordinaire
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
10,479
I'm confused. Why are boards advocating having one master matchup thread for discussing all matchups? Why are we suddenly against dedicated A vs B threads?
 

Epok

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Messages
590
Location
Grand Rapids MI
I'm confused. Why are boards advocating having one master matchup thread for discussing all matchups? Why are we suddenly against dedicated A vs B threads?
It might be because it would be ultimately over 50 match up threads per character page. Seems like a lot.
 

Elessar

Nouyons TO
Joined
Apr 20, 2010
Messages
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Paraguay
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Veritiel
3DS FC
3711-8466-0515
I'm confused. Why are boards advocating having one master matchup thread for discussing all matchups? Why are we suddenly against dedicated A vs B threads?
You mean our boards? Because we aren't against having dedicated threads. In fact, we still have them, hence the need for the Index.
 

Lawz.

The Original Deadpool Fan
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
1,056
Location
Pennsylvania
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Lawz_Fearless
You mean our boards? Because we aren't against having dedicated threads. In fact, we still have them, hence the need for the Index.
I think you should have a schedule or some kind of a vote for the next matchup we do. I also think you should be the one to start each individual matchup thread.

And it would be wise to let the character boards know that we are having a discussion so we can actually get an input from both sides.
 

Elessar

Nouyons TO
Joined
Apr 20, 2010
Messages
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Paraguay
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3DS FC
3711-8466-0515
I think you should have a schedule or some kind of a vote for the next matchup we do. I also think you should be the one to start each individual matchup thread.

And it would be wise to let the character boards know that we are having a discussion so we can actually get an input from both sides.
Well, about the input from both sides that's why I indexed as well the MU thread on every other board. I could still invite them, but then again anybody can, no necessarily just me.

Also, why the vote and schedule? I mean, how would that improve or help our current system?
 

JigglyZelda003

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
6,792
Location
Cleveland, OH

Snackss

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 12, 2015
Messages
362
Is there no info on the ROB matchup? Ones who use the gyro well are a major nuisance.
 

Lawz.

The Original Deadpool Fan
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
1,056
Location
Pennsylvania
NNID
Lawz_Fearless
I'm surprised there's little to no info on the Link v Sheik matchup. I feel you guys should be discussing the hardest matchups pretty in depth, especially considering Sheik is a popular character.
 

Elessar

Nouyons TO
Joined
Apr 20, 2010
Messages
2,624
Location
Paraguay
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Veritiel
3DS FC
3711-8466-0515
I'm surprised there's little to no info on the Link v Sheik matchup. I feel you guys should be discussing the hardest matchups pretty in depth, especially considering Sheik is a popular character.
We have a thread on it, but I think that it's general lack of Mu exp from regular posters. If you have any contribution to make feel more than free to post Lawz.
 

DavemanCozy

Smash Photographer
Joined
May 16, 2013
Messages
1,716
Location
London, ON
NNID
CavemanCossy
3DS FC
0216-1810-7681
Hello Link players, the Fox boards finally got our own MU discussion thread up. We're discussing Link this week, along with Tink and Little Mac:
http://smashboards.com/threads/all-aircraft-report-fox-match-up-discussion-thread.393061/

We would appreciate any input you may have on this MU.
I'll go ahead and re-post this. We've started re-discussing the Link MU over at the Fox boards
:4link:vs:4fox:

Due to the 1.0.6 patch removing his jab lock (but not ours :joyful:) but buffing Spin Attack and his shield blocking our lasers.

Click here to join the discussion.
 

Ryu_Ken

Ace Adventurer and Truth Seeker
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
3,281
Location
Texas
NNID
Sorastar9
3DS FC
4725-8061-1333
I think we should have an MU thread for :4lucas:,:4ryu:, and :4feroy:. The earlier the discussion, the better.
Quick notes on Ryu:
  • Bombs go straight through all Hadoukens
  • Hylian Shield blocks all Hadoukens
  • Ryu has more hitlag on his attacks than the rest of the cast, so OoS options are very effective against him
  • Tasumaki Senpuyaku (Hurricane Kick) has very high priority, so it may nullify some of Link's projectiles
 

link7

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
1,081
Location
Steilacoom, Washington
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Kidlink77
3DS FC
2234-7140-8163
I think we should have an MU thread for :4lucas:,:4ryu:, and :4feroy:. The earlier the discussion, the better.
Quick notes on Ryu:
  • Bombs go straight through all Hadoukens
  • Hylian Shield blocks all Hadoukens
  • Ryu has more hitlag on his attacks than the rest of the cast, so OoS options are very effective against him
  • Tasumaki Senpuyaku (Hurricane Kick) has very high priority, so it may nullify some of Link's projectiles
It's only been one day. It's best to wait.
 
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