Bowser King
Have It Your Way
Bowser's Counter Picks and Bans
This thread is used to choose what stages should be counter picked or banned on what character.Guideline
At the end of each summary there will be a "final verdict".
1 Fsmash means it's a bad stage (Stay away!!)---Ban choice
1.5 Fsmashes are really bad stages and should never be used in this matchup---Ban Choice
2 Fsmashes are not very good stages and should be avoided-Ban Choice of there aren't any 1's
2.5 Fsmashes- Not very good stages and have are more in favor for your opponent---Neutral/Below Par
3 Fsmashes- An even stage that's not in favour for either sides- Neutral
3.5 Fsmashes- A stage in your favour, take it if there's nothing better--- Neutral/Above Par
4 Fsmashes- A good stage and very good choice-Counter Pick
4.5-5 Fsmashes- An amazing choice and should be choosen right away- Strong Counterpick
Image by ArcZero
Metaknight
Counter-Final Destination, Smashville
Ban-Rainbow Cruise, Battlefield
Synopsis- MK:
For MK, ban basically any stage you can not CG on. CG is your shining light, right next to Up B oos. This means, Final Destination and Smashville are usually good choices.
MK will **** you through platforms. Short and sweet. His attacks are generally long range, and that coupled with platforms does not bode well for Bowser at all. You can't CG as efficiently with platforms either, chances are he'll land on one and proceed to own you with a drop through fair or whatever other bs MK has up his sleeve.
Final Destination you have more of a chances. No platforms, plus a chaingrab. MK can't come at you from all angles now, thus greatly reducing the effectiveness of his attacks. Smashville is basically the same, though the moving platform could bother you; but it's pretty slow, so it's not TOO big of a concern.
Rainbow Cruise is also bad. I don't need to explain why, either; ban it.
Frigate Orpheon is pretty bad, too. Though not QUITE as bad as Battlefield, it's way up there. It's platforms aren't as effective as Battlefields; however, the no ledge could cause some problems with gimping.
Final Verdict:
Final Destination: 5/5 Fsmashes
Battlefield: 1/5 Fsmashes
Smashville: 4/5 Fsmashes
Rainbow Cruise: Flubbed fsmash into a punishment ko.
written by: Liquid Gen
Snake
Counter-Smashville
Ban- Battlefield and Lylat Cruise
Synopsis- Snake;
For snake, you need a stage where you wont be in as big of a threat from c4, mines ect.
Platform stages are a pretty bad choice. His utlit is amazing (though your’s is to) on platforms and so are his many weapons (c4 ect.). However, grenade spam isn’t as effective and that’s a huge plus.
Flat stages allow for you to see the c4’s ect. However, mortar sliding becomes easier as well as grenade spam. Therefore, choice a stage that’s relatively simple and minimizes the above.
Smashville is a good choice. It’s not to small but not to huge for grenade spam. Watch out for the top platform for a moving c4 (!). Other then that this stage isn’t to bad.
Other then that, go for basically non-neutral stages. Snake does really well on those. Don’t go norfair either. Snake can do a lot over there with his weapons.
For banning, go for lylat cruise. The C4’s blend really well and the platforms shape screw’s you over.
DON’T COME HERE. Bad things happen.
Banning Battlefield as another one. His utlit, c4’s are amazing over here. Not to mention that bowser’s weight isn’t as handy, especially against someone like snake.
Final Verdict:
Smashville- 4/5 Fsmashes
Battlefield- 1/5 Fsmashes
Lylat Cruise- -1/5 Fsmashes
Norfair- 2/5 Fsmashes
Final Destination- 2.5/5 Fsmashes
The last choice for a counter pick is pretty optional and should likely be a non-neutral stage.
Falco
Counter-Battlefield or Norfair
Ban-Jungle Japes, Lylat Cruise (Gen's idea) or Final Destination (if you hate lazers)
Synopsis- Falco:
For falco, don't choose a stage that's good for chaingrabs, spikes and lazers (I know that's a lot of stuff but If you can get around those 3 things, you will be able to do a lot better in the matchup).
Let's start with lazers. He will lazer you to force an approach (nothing new for bowser) but flaco’s blaster is a real pain. If you play smart you wont have much trouble with them but that doesn’t mean that they don’t raise the heat. Basically watch out for them and find a stage that can get help you get around them.
Chaingrab isn’t as bad. You can get out with whirling fortress (?) but it’s pretty hard to do (practice makes perfect). If you get trouble with getting out then your basically in for quite a bit of damage. If it’s on the edge, it leads to our next problem the spike.
The spike on itself isn’t THAT bad (invincibility frames on fortress help a great deal) but when added with chain grab it gets pretty bad. Choose a stage that won’t harm you to much in the process of chain grabs and spikes. There not something you can’t get around but when you can’t they can be a pain.
Battlefield is a good choice. You can get around lazers through multiple ways. The stage is also small so you shouldn’t worry much about that. You can keep the pressure high and it will be easier to get falco offstage. When it’s at the point of recovering, pull out the fire. Battlefield is an overall good stage because of the common things like bowser and his ability to destroy people on the platforms.
Norfair is another stage that will help out. Lazers aren’t much trouble because the multiple ledges and , if your lucky, the fire might be up when he’s trying to go for a spike (you’ll take damage but it’s better then losing a stock). On a random note, watch out for falco’s moves like shine when trying to approach from a lower platform to a higher.
Don’t go japes. The spike will eat you hear if your not ready for it and even then, if your anywhere near the water your in a danger zone. Lazer spam is amazing, Getting from one end to falco is a huge hassle because if you do get there, you’ve only won a bit of the battle. Plus, he can peck you with lazers into the water or farther away and then can get really frustrating when trying to approach a character who has the advantage either way.
FD is a so-so stage. It’s not to bad because on offstage falco is a falco that’s not in a good positon. Go here if you want the space (at the cost of lazers). If your good at getting around projectiles (which you should be as a bowser main ). The chain grab to spike is lame blah blah blah. You know that by now
Final Verdict-
Battlefield- 4/5 Fsmashes
Norfair- 4/5 Fsmashes
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Jungle Japes- 1.5/5 Fsmashes
Lylat Cruise- 2(?) Fsmashes
FD- 3-3.5 Fsmashes
King Dedede
Counter-
Ban-
Mr. Game and Watch
Counter-
Ban-
Marth
Counter-
Ban-
Diddy Kong
Counter-
Ban-
Wario
Counter-
Ban-
Rob
Counter-
Ban-
Lucario
Counter-
Ban-
Olimar
Counter-
Ban-
Pikachu
Counter-
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Kirby
Counter-
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Donkey Kong
Counter-
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Ice Climbers
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Zero Suit Samus
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Toon Link
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Pit
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Peach
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Wolf
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Luigi
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Zelda
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Bowser
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:shiek:Fox
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Shiek
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Ike
Counter-
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Mario
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Lucas
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Ness
Counter-
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Samus
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Sonic
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Pokemon Trainer
Counter-
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Yoshi
Counter-
Ban-
Link
Counter-
Ban-
Jigglypuff
Counter-
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Ganondorf
Counter-
Ban-
Falcon
Counter-
Ban-
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Good Stages
Norfair - This stage is great because it helps stop bowser-gimping, allows bowser to space his moves and the stacked platforms are great for hitting someone on a higher platform then you.
Smashville - small stage, fairly open, with a platform if you need it. The moving platform allows you to mow people down with fire from above. Grab releases are very easy to do here. you're favorite neutral
Castle Siege - during all stage changes, as well as when you are on the second stage, you can grab release people off the side for an easy ko. small stage, hard to get camped here, just don't cp dedede here
Corneria - the ceiling in here is LOW, really LOW, upb kills early, usmash kills early, utilt kills early, uair pretty much just kills
Pokemon Stadium 1 - not really sure, bowser's just really fun on this stage
Situational Counterpicks
Final Destination- good for metaknight and wario
Frigate Orpheon - for the tether characters, and other people who rely on ledges
Battlefield - good for campy characters, rob, falco, snake, NOT olimar, TAKE OLI ELSEWHERE, BAD THINGS HAPPEN ON THIS STAGE
Bad stages
Yoshi's Island - the central platform makes it very easy for people to camp you, i just never liked this stage
Jungle Japes - very high ceiling, so all your ko moves are no good, water kills you and it says mean things about your mother, all in all, you probably wanna ban either this or rainbow cruise
Rainbow Cruise - this fabulous stage doesn't stop moving, and you will occasionally die because of it, good luck
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Thanks to the TL boards for the idea.
itsthebigfoot for being so cool with this. He also made the original thread where I took some info out of.