Sucessor of Raphael changed his mind about Ness>Zelda? Quote/link?
I did.
What worked on paper didn't work in the match. I didn't realize how pathetic Ness's ground game is compared to Zelda's. I mean, it wasn't impossible to get ground hits in, but I could only get a good 5-15% (not counting the bat smash) on Zelda at any one encounter on the ground. Most characters don't have a skill like Nayru's Love, and most don't have a Dsmash that comes out lightning quick. It also doesn't help that approaching from the air opens Zelda up to the option of an Usmash. Of course, on the flipside, Ness can combo Zelda in the air, or at the very least, he can get her in the air and pester with PK Thunder (and in my experience, it's not always reflected).
I'm beginning to think the match is even. PSI Magnet is a minor, minor advantage, if it is one at all. You only get one or two Din's in on an opponent in a match, and that's usually if you're far away - PSI magnet up close gets you punished with Zelda, as it would with any character. Zelda's basically a fortress to Ness with her defenses, but once he gets past her defenses, he can rack up damage quite fast with his aerials. I personally found the match-up to be a pain with Ness.
Also, on the topic of infinites, I feel Charizard v Ness is NOT a large disadvantage. Without the infinite, Charizard got *****, Ness typically does this to large foes, and even with it it's not even close to the difficulty of the Marth matchup, who was bad to begin with. The infinite isn't too devastating at lower percents; with proper DI and getting out as fast as possible, you should be able to make it across the stage with out much percent, and you have to factor in where you were grabbed in the first place. Just like the other characters who get infinited and dont have large disadvantages, Ness can space himself to avoid the grab.
I don't know... most Charizards aren't terribly difficult to me, but that range, power, and weight might be able to hold that large X. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather see it as a small x, and it just might get changed to that, but Charizard has other things going for him (like that fair).
While I do feel that Ness has an advantage over Zelda, it's slight. Playing multiple Zelda mains against Ness shuts down her Forward B appraoch (psi magnet) Ness, semi walls Zelda when she tries to recovery, and her being extremely light (lighter than Ness eww) makes her sucseptable to Ness' nasty back throw (power is determined on your weight. Light characters, die easier, while fa- I mean heavy will never die. This makes facing Snake a drag) Anyway, my 2 cents.
Ness does not shut down that approach. He has to dodge it just like everyone else or he'll 1) get hit by the fire, or 2) use the PSI magnet (which won't be coming out in time anyway unless you KNOW it's coming) and get punished by any of her follow-up attacks.
Being extremely light doesn't really matter much when it comes to a b-throw. Zelda is easily one of the most difficult characters to grab in the game because she is designed to keep you away from her when you get too close. It doesn't kill at some abnormally low % unless you're near the edge or if Zelda DIs it. Being light and "dying easily" barely accounts for anything. That's like saying Ganon's hard to kill for Ness but Squirtle is easy because of weight alone.
Not ONE mention of Lucas (he has an advantage over her)
Read a bit. He's said Lucas 6:4 or 5.5:4.5 Zelda before.
I vote we ban the Ness vs Zelda argument from this thread
Yeah the hell right. Skip over it if you don't want to read it. End of.
And to avoid quoting all of the other Ness vs. Zelda posts... STH might be one of the very few arguing for Zelda, but it counts for something, especially when most people use ad hominems and theoretical logic to back up their claims that they obviously didn't get from experience. Also, to whoever mentioned being professional, that's a stupid thought. You don't have to be a pro to find strengths and weaknesses in match-ups. You're not born a pro. You have to start from somewhere, and finding strengths and weaknesses is part of bettering your own game plan.
They cannot be equal.
if amd when ivana changes this chart, I can safely bet that Zelda and Ness will be neutral, while Lucas and Zelda will be Lucas favor. WHY?
Ness great DI screws over Zelda's smashes. Her bad recovery allows her to be spiked with Ness Dair.
No one mentions the Lucas vs Zelda matchup huh.
Anyway, IMO Psi magnet stops her best approach, dins fire. Thats like stopping Snakes Ftilt. If that doesn't mean a disadvantage nothing will.
Zelda has bad recovery? LOL
First off, Ness isn't gonna get a dair past that uair. Second, good luck at getting a dair off of someone who can warp in several directions at any given point in time. Don't forget to mention that Zelda has attacks that outrange the living hell out of Ness's ground game, and also don't forget that her nair also has good priority, her lightning kicks kill at very, very low %s, and nothing of Ness's is getting past that uair.
Anyway, read
this thread instead of going "NOT ONE LUCAS MENTION" over and over. Also, once again, you're kidding yourself if you honestly believe PSI magnet kills off Din's Fire, at all. At the most, it'll cut down her pressuring game, but it won't nullify it.
