• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Brawl is not like SSB64 at all.

D

Deleted member

Guest
You "choose" not to z-cancel. That's like choosing not to score headshots in Halo... and you don't realize this. A simple litmus test like this tells me you aren't nearly as knowledgeable about the finer points of SSB64 as you claim to be.

Can you tell me how DI works? Do you know any combos? If so, what are they? What's Pikachu's best ground move? I wager you don't know.

Admittedly I don't consider myself an expert since I haven't played much SSB64 competitively, but I do know that you, my friend, are living in a delusionsal little world that's incredibly annoying to witness the misconceptions of on not one, but two message boards. You want a real lesson? Go to the SSB64 boards. Challenge somebody there. See what happens... that is, if you're lucky enough to find anyone there.
I choose not to Z-Cancel and I still win, so I'm obviously the better player. It is to my opponents advantage and doesn't concern you. Could I be a better player with it? Sure. Do I need it? Nope. Unless you're going to play me and win, shut up because you're embarrassing yourself.

I don't have any misconceptions, I play how I want. And more importantly, I win.
 

Doctor X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 1, 2004
Messages
1,397
Location
Cincinnati, OH
I choose not to Z-Cancel and I still win, so I'm obviously the better player. It is to my opponents advantage and doesn't concern you. Could I be a better player with it? Sure. Do I need it? Nope. Unless you're going to play me and win, shut up because you're embarrassing yourself.

I don't have any misconceptions, I play how I want. And more importantly, I win.
You didn't win against anybody good, then.

Me? I'm not good. I don't play. I don't even know if I would be good if I did play, because I don't. But I do pay attention to people that are, and the general consensus from them is that SSB64 is all about combos, and without z-cancelling combos are incredibly limited. Without z-cancelling, you just can't compete. The same is true of Melee and L-cancelling, though less so and due to safe approaches and shield-grab punishment, not necessarily combos.

If it were possible, I'd tell you to set up a match with Isai so you could really see where you stand... but for now I'll tell you to search youtube for his "don't get hit" combo video so you can see a bit of what a good player will do to you should you ever play against one.
 

Thino

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 7, 2006
Messages
4,845
Location
Mountain View, CA
DoctorX vs ShadowXOR paypal money matches on kaillera goes in smash64 discussion
and Im sorry ShadowXOR if you can win online without zcancelling you must have been playing very bad players but as long as you win its fine.

coming back on topic :since when do we compare lag time between Brawl and Melee/64 without L-cancel lol?
 

gunterrsmash01

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
2,533
brawl is DEFINETLY more like melee then 64. Its just melee with some 64 twists (more air time) and some new stuff.
 

Doctor X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 1, 2004
Messages
1,397
Location
Cincinnati, OH
DoctorX vs ShadowXOR paypal money matches on kaillera goes in smash64 discussion
and Im sorry ShadowXOR if you can win online without zcancelling you must have been playing very bad players but as long as you win its fine.

coming back on topic :since when do we compare lag time between Brawl and Melee/64 without L-cancel lol?
I'd like to money-match, but I lack a PC capable of running the emulator.

Don't get me wrong, though. I'm not trying to say that I'm good. I'm saying that our pal Shadow is bad. I may very well be bad as well, and seeing as I haven't played anybody good in at least two years, I probably am. >_<
 

Sculelos

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
496
Location
Wyoming, USA
I would challange people online but it seems like there is control lag in any Super Smash Bros online game I've had.

Thats why I'm waiting for Brawl I can tolerate some lag as long as it doesn't effect my controls but if I can't control my character at certain moments it totally messes up my game.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
You didn't win against anybody good, then.

Me? I'm not good. I don't play. I don't even know if I would be good if I did play, because I don't. But I do pay attention to people that are, and the general consensus from them is that SSB64 is all about combos, and without z-cancelling combos are incredibly limited. Without z-cancelling, you just can't compete. The same is true of Melee and L-cancelling, though less so and due to safe approaches and shield-grab punishment, not necessarily combos.

If it were possible, I'd tell you to set up a match with Isai so you could really see where you stand... but for now I'll tell you to search youtube for his "don't get hit" combo video so you can see a bit of what a good player will do to you should you ever play against one.
I know who Isai is and pretty much no one can touch him, but I'm still an excellent player and you can't prove otherwise. :)
 

Senshuu

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
447
Location
TN, USA
I don't think any of the games in this series resemble each other.
Melee blew me away considering how ghetto SSB was. I bet after Brawl's release Melee will seem ghetto to us, too. Kind of funny (but they'll always have places in our hearts!).
 

Winston

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
3,562
Location
Seattle, WA (slightly north of U-District)
I know who Isai is and pretty much no one can touch him, but I'm still an excellent player and you can't prove otherwise. :)
I seriously want to play you now.

You have project64k and you can get onto emularena, right?

Do you use aim or anything?

I would gladly put my money where my mouth is in an ssb match vs someone who doesn't z-cancel.
 

mogwaimon

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 29, 2008
Messages
160
Apparently Aniki of Melee fame is an excellent player who chooses not to wavedash/use certain advanced techniques.Bashing someone's skill just because they choose not to use a technique is no better than elevating someone's skill just because they can wavedash.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
As mogwaimon said, people can be good while choosing to play the way they want to play...

Gustav Wind:

I use Mupen64K.

Also, if any of you guys want to challenge me at Brawl I'm even more confident in my skills in that. Ever since I've played it I don't have much interest for Smash 64 or Melee anymore. I get my English copy on March 5th and I'm taking the day off, so anytime that day or after if you have the game, I'm IN!
 

spacemanspiff

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
249
Hooray. You're floatier, like you were in ssb64.

Not sitting on your behind for half a second after every aerial is more important to the feel. Also, being able to connect hits.
no its not. it changes the game yes but not as much as characters having less gravity lol combo's will be changed from the difference in techs. the game itself as in the physics of it will be changed by the 'feel'
 

Doctor X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 1, 2004
Messages
1,397
Location
Cincinnati, OH
Apparently Aniki of Melee fame is an excellent player who chooses not to wavedash/use certain advanced techniques.Bashing someone's skill just because they choose not to use a technique is no better than elevating someone's skill just because they can wavedash.
Not all advanced techniques are created equal. Wavedashing is really not that important despite all the controversy and ****-talk. L-cancelling is very important, Z-cancelling in 64 even more so.
 

Winston

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
3,562
Location
Seattle, WA (slightly north of U-District)
Apparently Aniki of Melee fame is an excellent player who chooses not to wavedash/use certain advanced techniques.Bashing someone's skill just because they choose not to use a technique is no better than elevating someone's skill just because they can wavedash.
Z cancelling is much, much more essential to ssb64 than wavedashing is for melee.
 

spacemanspiff

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
249
^ teching and DI are the most important techs in the game in my books...both of which have been carried through the series
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
By the way, I was just screwing with you guys. I do use Z-Canceling. :)
 

Doctor X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 1, 2004
Messages
1,397
Location
Cincinnati, OH
By the way, I was just screwing with you guys. I do use Z-Canceling. :)
-_-

I'm not sure how pretending to be a noob helps your point, and it wasn't funny mainly because there really are people like that. I've met (and beat, I might add) enough of them in real life to be pretty close to sick of it.

And it wouldn't be so annoying if you weren't so vocal in your hate for Melee and clear misunderstandings of what makes Brawl different from the other two games on a higher level. The truth of the matter is that in Brawl, there's hardly any hitstun or sheildstun, mostly unpunishable DI and airdodges, and mostly laggy air moves that can't be used in combos except as endings-- and good luck finding any moves that lead into them. This is the exact opposite of 64 in almost every way.

I'd still like to play you in a friendly 64 match. I played a bunch last night on my friend's 64 and it's sort of brought back that short-lived interest that led me to learn anything about the game in the first place. I'll let you know if I ever manage to run an emulator in any sort of semblance of the actual game. Let me know if you're ever near Cincinnati for whatever reason and I'll do the same if I'm ever in... is that DC or Washington the state?
 

e105beta

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
256
Brawl is a new game dag-nabbit! Stop comparing it to the other games. Play it on its own merit!
 

Finch

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Messages
1,730
Location
Tallahassee, FL
By the way, I was just screwing with you guys. I do use Z-Canceling. :)
My bull**** meter is off the charts. Your post awhile back saying brawl is like melee with stuff added from 64 that they got rid of in melee is so wrong. smash 64 has nothing melee doesn't have, except instant lag cancelling and 5 minute hitstun that results in stupidly long combos being too easy to pull off. SSB64 is simple, melee is incredibly complex, and brawl is (probably) just a little less complex than melee. I'm bad at smash64, but I do play it often and I know the difference. You hate melee and probably never play it, so you have no idea what you're talking about.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
-_-

I'm not sure how pretending to be a noob helps your point, and it wasn't funny mainly because there really are people like that. I've met (and beat, I might add) enough of them in real life to be pretty close to sick of it.

And it wouldn't be so annoying if you weren't so vocal in your hate for Melee and clear misunderstandings of what makes Brawl different from the other two games on a higher level. The truth of the matter is that in Brawl, there's hardly any hitstun or sheildstun, mostly unpunishable DI and airdodges, and mostly laggy air moves that can't be used in combos except as endings-- and good luck finding any moves that lead into them. This is the exact opposite of 64 in almost every way.

I'd still like to play you in a friendly 64 match. I played a bunch last night on my friend's 64 and it's sort of brought back that short-lived interest that led me to learn anything about the game in the first place. I'll let you know if I ever manage to run an emulator in any sort of semblance of the actual game. Let me know if you're ever near Cincinnati for whatever reason and I'll do the same if I'm ever in... is that DC or Washington the state?
I was just bored and everyone takes everything way too seriously on these forums...we all love it, but it's still just a game. I've never met anyone that refuses to Z-Cancel but I guess it's possible. And I DO understand what makes Brawl different from 64 (and Melee). I understand every aspect of both of those games. But I said Brawl just "feels" like 64, which I stand by. Sure the ridiculous combos are gone...but that isn't what made the game, just one aspect of the game. It's funny, advanced players are familiar with every aspect of the game yet they always get hung up on certain features "making" the game. Brawl is missing things the previous two had and it brings a lot of new things, but that doesn't mean it doesn't closely resemble previous entries in many ways. I live in Washington on the West Coast.

My bull**** meter is off the charts. Your post awhile back saying brawl is like melee with stuff added from 64 that they got rid of in melee is so wrong. smash 64 has nothing melee doesn't have, except instant lag cancelling and 5 minute hitstun that results in stupidly long combos being too easy to pull off. SSB64 is simple, melee is incredibly complex, and brawl is (probably) just a little less complex than melee. I'm bad at smash64, but I do play it often and I know the difference. You hate melee and probably never play it, so you have no idea what you're talking about.
Smash 64 DOES have something Melee didn't have, a reasonable fall speed, which is the most important thing Brawl brings back. In Melee you fall like a rock, it feels like EVERY character always has the Metal power-up compared to Smash 64. You may think Smash 64 is simple and Melee is complex but that's just your opinion. I did play Melee to unlock everything, and learn every aspect of the game before I judged it. Do you think I wanted to not like it? Hell no, I was looking forward to Melee so much, I WANTED a sequel to Smash 64, but I felt the game was extremely poorly done compared to the original. But Brawl brings the series back to form for me. Most Melee fans didn't start with 64, and the ones that did I know a lot that still like 64 better but merely moved onto Melee for the community.

Everyone has an opinion, get over it. :laugh:

Basically, I'm not saying it's completely different from Melee, or exactly like Smash 64. It just has a much more Smash 64 "feel" to me in certain aspects that make it much better than both previous games in my opinion.
 

e105beta

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
256
I'd rather not get into that debate, seeing as that debate is just asinine... But if one does compare them, they should do it right.
True. I'm just trying to say that people shouldn't do stuff like discredit slow characters, lack of l-canceling or wavedashing, for example, until they play the game and find out if the game actually works, which I can assure it does. It feels a lot more fluid than 64 and melee. You're right though, if one does compare the games (which should be done AFTER playing brawl for the first time), then yes, you should do it right.
 

Embrio

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
59
hmmm, SSBB is IMO a better looking SBB64, slightly more technical.
 

Shadic

Alakadoof?
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Messages
5,695
Location
Olympia, WA
NNID
Shadoof
Can't you just say that it's a mix of the two? A lot of the physics resemble the first game, with some technical abilities of Melee.
 

Nintendude

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 23, 2006
Messages
5,024
Location
San Francisco
Even in the floatiness department Brawl is WAY different from SSB64. Brawl's floatiness isn't as prevalent as it was in SSB64 because you can delay fastfall aerials. In SSB64, once you started an aerial, you couldn't fastfall until the aerial was over. That means no SHFFL'd aerials, only short-hopped ones. In Brawl at least you can do short-hop fastfall aerials effectively.

Thanks for making this, Winston.:)
 

e105beta

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
256
The air game is like that of Kingdom Hearts 2. Now THAT'S air game.
 
Top Bottom