JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
i loled at this. although their not as imbalanced as say Naruto CoN 2 or its GNT3-4 games.
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Brawl - More balanced than Melee? Lie or truth?
- Thread starter Yuna
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IrArby
Smash Ace
No. We discussed this in another thread some time ago. Mario Party is actually the most unbalanced game around. Bowser is so totally broken! Its not even fair.
The Halloween Captain
Smash Master
Its a joke ColinJF, you can tell because he puts Bowser as god tier in Mario Party.
Also, I know the video a few pages back was awful. Does anyone have a better video for displaying the differences between tiers? I am unfortunately not familiar enough with Smash's big competitors to know what to look for, but there are no low tiers in the Azen v. M2K battles on youtube. (By the way - I hear Mario surpasses Wario in tourney victories in Japan).
The Brawl Japanese playstyle, at least right now, is very different than the American / European playstyle.
You're not intelligent.
The Halloween Captain
Smash Master
By "better", I'm assuming you mean which playstyle is more geared to "playing to win"--and that would be the American / European playstyle. As it's been stated before, the Japanese are just basically scrubby at this point. Falco is better than MK in their scene because they don't play to win; they play for show.
Instead of spamming the same moves over and over again and taking advantage of the top characters' abilities and properties, they scrub themselves to make a horrible game just a little bit more fun. That's why in the Japanese Brawl scene the emphasis is put on characters like Falco and Peach, while in our scene, it's basically the Power 5 (Snake, MK, Marth, etc.).
The Halloween Captain
Smash Master
Its actually more like the Power 2, with both Snake and MK having almost double the points of the nearest competitor when you use Ankoku's tourney result system.
Or maybe it may be because that's how the Japanese were with Melee too. They had a completely different tier list because they had the inability to get past their own scrub-dom to play anyone but Sheik and her counter Dr. Mario. That's it. Their tier list was 2 characters. People complain about Fox, but at least there was also Falco, Marth, Sheik, and Peach. Jeeze.
And no, not everyone records all of their matches. Can I ask you to provide me with evidence of you playing to disprove the point that spamming and camping works? No. Not everyone has that luxury. Not everyone records tournament matches, especially when that hard-drive space would be housing Brawl videos.
And no, not everyone records all of their matches. Can I ask you to provide me with evidence of you playing to disprove the point that spamming and camping works? No. Not everyone has that luxury. Not everyone records tournament matches, especially when that hard-drive space would be housing Brawl videos.
Samochan
Smash Master
Captain jack says you gotta stop playing melee if you want to play competitive brawl >_>
I find hard time believing him
I find hard time believing him
Twin Dreams
Smash Ace
They say you can't play both because of the difference in physics and stuff. However, that'd be like suggesting you can't play any two games competitively. It's not true. All you have to do is practice both everyday and you should be able to adjust fine.
However, I don't believe it is relevant to whether is more balanced. Because balance can't be quantified it'll always just be an opinion. This is similar to two kids make-believe-fighting.
"Hey! I attacked you. You have to fall down because of X"
"No, I don't fall down because of Y."
However, I don't believe it is relevant to whether is more balanced. Because balance can't be quantified it'll always just be an opinion. This is similar to two kids make-believe-fighting.
"Hey! I attacked you. You have to fall down because of X"
"No, I don't fall down because of Y."
IrArby
Smash Ace
If don't stop playing Melee you'll realize how much time you could be spending having fun or winning cause your good.
And yes it can be quantified as long as you can back up your balance claims with factual, objective, data that shows certain chars dominating others. It isn't a matter strictly of opinion at that point. Think of it like Smash Theory. You can never completely prove its 100% true but its a very accurate starting point.
Oh yea and thinking back I've heard alot about Bombsoilders really flashy falco who would do alot of unneccesary stuff like spike someone into the ground like 10 times consequetively (from a standing postion) when he could have easily down smashed him to his death or something along those lines. It makes sense that Japan is more flashy otherwise Bombsoilder would of spent more time learning how to DI out of combos.
Instead he does totally lame flashy combos. jk His combos are amazing and most of his matches look like combo videos. Definetly flashy style but what do I know thats only one player.
The only Japanese Melee smashers that you hear about alot play good chars according to our tier list. Bombsoilder - Falco, Masashi - Fox, and Kizzu - Marth. I'm missing a few but you get my point. I never considered Doc Flashy so I guess Japanese Smashers are just wierd like that.
And yes it can be quantified as long as you can back up your balance claims with factual, objective, data that shows certain chars dominating others. It isn't a matter strictly of opinion at that point. Think of it like Smash Theory. You can never completely prove its 100% true but its a very accurate starting point.
Oh yea and thinking back I've heard alot about Bombsoilders really flashy falco who would do alot of unneccesary stuff like spike someone into the ground like 10 times consequetively (from a standing postion) when he could have easily down smashed him to his death or something along those lines. It makes sense that Japan is more flashy otherwise Bombsoilder would of spent more time learning how to DI out of combos.
Instead he does totally lame flashy combos. jk His combos are amazing and most of his matches look like combo videos. Definetly flashy style but what do I know thats only one player.
The only Japanese Melee smashers that you hear about alot play good chars according to our tier list. Bombsoilder - Falco, Masashi - Fox, and Kizzu - Marth. I'm missing a few but you get my point. I never considered Doc Flashy so I guess Japanese Smashers are just wierd like that.
Foxy
Smash Master
Your post wasn't too bad but this paragraph made me cry. Just... do some research.
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
BombShielder sounds like BombSoldier's eternal rival.
Fletch
Smash Master
Ini the last month I've heard to BombSoldier referred to as Bombslider(actual smasher has this name but the person who said it was talking about the Japanese pro Falco), Bomberman, and now Bombshielder. BombSoldier is too good for one name i guess.
Clai
Smash Lord
Woah woah woah. Let me try to understand this. Japanese players try to incorporate different strategies to have some variety and flashiness and American players camp and spam because they're afraid to do anything that might get themselves hurt against camping and spamming... and the Japanese are scrubby?
Please. Go into more detail. I don't care what level of intelligence you put me in, but please tell me what I said isn't correct.
Demon Kirby
Smash Champion
I'm sorry for spamming, but...
BombShelder
BombShelder
JrdnS
Smash Ace
this is the good kind of spam.I'm sorry for spamming, but...
BombShelder
PK-ow!
Smash Lord
Call me crazy but how could an entire nation instantiate nothing but "scrubdom" for a game? Any game?
You'd have to assert the culture is fundamentally scrubby about fighter gaming. I mean I'm not saying that's impossible or racist, but it would take some substantial empirical support, and somehow a census of "only" major tournaments doesn't seem like enough.
You'd have to assert the culture is fundamentally scrubby about fighter gaming. I mean I'm not saying that's impossible or racist, but it would take some substantial empirical support, and somehow a census of "only" major tournaments doesn't seem like enough.
The Halloween Captain
Smash Master
What we need to do is determine which style is best, or even if the styles are different, before we worry how patheticly scrubby they are.
But first, compare this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEm-rQHRtvQ
To this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lijaDYADAA8
But first, compare this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEm-rQHRtvQ
To this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lijaDYADAA8
Witchking_of_Angmar
Smash Lord
Actually, it's pretty much true, except for the "because they're afraid[...]" part.
Playing to win>Playing for flashiness
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
some are afraid thats why they do it lol and most lose IMO.
and while playing to win maybe >playing for flashiness at least the flashy one will look interesting while the play 2 win is just the same old broken record lol.
Foxy
Smash Master
Here's something a lot of players in this thread don't understand: two very, very good players when competing will appear to use "play to win" strategies that are campy and safe, but the truth is that neither player is susceptible to "flashy play" and therefore neither is left with any option but the boring-looking style.
However, either of those top players will mysteriously "flashy" against a lesser player. Why? The lesser player falls for the more punishable and less reliable strategies. Another time "flashy" play is apparent is in friendlies among good players or even average players like in the vids in the Japan thread in this forum.
Then again, flashy play doesn't exist in Brawl, so why are we having this argument?
However, either of those top players will mysteriously "flashy" against a lesser player. Why? The lesser player falls for the more punishable and less reliable strategies. Another time "flashy" play is apparent is in friendlies among good players or even average players like in the vids in the Japan thread in this forum.
Then again, flashy play doesn't exist in Brawl, so why are we having this argument?
People new to Smash think rollchasing with Ganondorf's Side+B is flashy, so it's easy to see where a lot of new players are coming from when they call something in Brawl "flashy."
I wouldn't say flashy, but it's amusing to see how many times you can do this to people before they actually stop being idiots.
gantrain05
Smash Master
everyone is susceptible to "flashy play" there is no one definite style. saying the japanese are scrubs is an ignorant assumption, looking for glitches and broken techniques doesn't make people any better at the game, it just makes them good at abusing broken characters like snake and metaknight. honestly the way the japanese play probably takes alot more skill than playing as the ice climbers and just using Infinite chaingrabs all the time.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Skill is defined by victory., if you lose then your opponent defeated your strategies and destroyed you, therefore you are less skilled. The exception of course being violation of written rules (hacks, breaking tournament rules) and out of game factors (kicking the opponent in the shins).
"Looking cool" is not playing skillfully by definition, it's skillful if it achieves victory.
IrArby
Smash Ace
I can't believe I typed "Bombshielder" Thats completely unprecedented. It took me like 3 posts to even realize why everyone was LMFAO at it. I apologize for my Noob moment, I promise I'm not nor am I a scrub who just heard about Bombsoilder and started throwing his name around randomly. I think that post is now the ****ing laughing stock of this thread. Oh lolz Im a Noob! Have you seen tha combow video "Shielder of Fortune" I am disgraced.
*hangs head in shame.
Winning Matches isn't a skill whereas making good decisions is, well sorta. Skill still boils down more to technical ability than anything else.
ps. I went back and double checked the names I used so I wouldn't look like a huge ASSHAT again. I've ever mispelled Ken I'd have to kill myself.
*hangs head in shame.
Hasn't that been a large part of the discussion going on in this thread? Skilled people with Mario, Luigi, whatever losing to scrub MKs? Skill doesn't equate to winning. Skill is the ability to execute decisions effectively. Effective decisions win the matches. Why is Ken (a not overly flashy player) the best in Melee? Great decisions! He has ample skill to execute whatever moves he decides to use. But, if skill equated to victories someone like Silent Wolf would be the best in Melee.
Winning Matches isn't a skill whereas making good decisions is, well sorta. Skill still boils down more to technical ability than anything else.
ps. I went back and double checked the names I used so I wouldn't look like a huge ASSHAT again. I've ever mispelled Ken I'd have to kill myself.
fissionprime
Smash Apprentice
actually it would solve the character balance problem to a large degree. Though it would add a slight amount of randomness to play. But it isnt like there arent any random things in brawl anyway (tripping, g&w side b, peach's turnip faces, luigi's side b). So the addition of smash balls would create much more character balance but it would make players be slightly more on their toes to watch for spawns, its not like there are any stages that are tourney legal and are big enough for a player to break a smash ball before another player has a chance.
In the end, its all about which is worse, slightly more random, or terrible character balance.
How would it solve character balance problems at all? Sheik gets a ranged instant KO attack, and Jigglypuff gets.... what? Not to mention Mario's AMAZING Final Smash that will probably never actually KO anybody.
Samochan
Smash Master
Don't forget the double LANDMASTAH KOs...
IrArby
Smash Ace
But that balances it out since Mario is such a broken char his sh*tty Final Smash stops him from being overpowered.
|For the record, I'm being sarcastic again. I just wanted to clarify so no one posted trying to correct me and say that Mario Party is a super balanced game or whatever. lolz|
Smash Balls are random and the point of competitive smash is to eliminate random elements that give one character the edge over another. If I lost a match: tied one stock apiece cause of some random Smash Ball I'd be pissed and I'm sure most of you'd agree.
nuff said. smash balls are garbage.
The Halloween Captain
Smash Master
We need to destroy MK in the tourney scene if we want interesting matches. In other words, pick counterpicks for MK and not Snake, because Snake puts up an interesting fight and MK is as bad as Pit.
Course, this is a daydream more than anything...
Course, this is a daydream more than anything...
Yeah, I hate my own matches, they are boring as ****. I sit and spam arrows, but, then again, all Brawl matches have either one person doing that if not both. Otherwise you are watching two scrubs (in the current meta). So...
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