Brawl+ Ness (SEVENTEEN ****ETY THREE)

[Mattnumbers]

tests without DI don't matter.


For example, lucas dthrow is not a chain throw on almost anyone DIing back and away. In fact most of all followups stop working at mid to low percents.

Yeah, you can just DI away and tech to avoid most followups at higher percents. Unless the Lucas player uses it next to the edge that is.

 

[shanus]

I don't think I'd like tech chasing personally because he doesn't have anything that covers that much range at one time except PK fire. But I like the hitstun idea.

Uh..... dair?


And you guys can't alter hitstun directly. Knockback/Dmg = hitstun

 

[[TSON]]

Oh.

And Oh again.

Sucks. :V

BTW shanus, is there a way to only speed up aerial PKT1? Grounded is stupid lagless so 125% would be nice there but aerial 200% is sexy amirite, it's got landlag so why not?

 

[Mattnumbers]

I wouldn't set it at 500% like before, but having a special way to reduce your lag (SH PKT1) seems like a good idea to me since it makes him a bit more skillful.

 

[WheelOfFish]

I don't think Ness needs any way to reduce lag on PKT1.

I don't think your .pac sufficiently nerfs Ness, Shanus. I tested it, and yeah, it makes it so fair doesn't combo into itself, but it still combos into reaaally stupid things at even more stupid percents.

Ness mains will hate me for this, but I'd be fine with fair being a bad move. Same with d-throw. He'd definitely be fine without them.

If DK is truly the image of balance in Brawl+, then aim to make Ness as good as DK. Even in your current .pac, he's better.

It's stupid to speed up PKT1 because it buffs his recovery. Ness's main weakness is supposedly his recovery (which is kinda stupid because he has zap jumping, a good second jump, and his up-b can cover a good distance. Sure, he goes into freefall if it's absorbed, but less than half the cast can just jump off the stage into PKT safely).

 

[thesage]

I don't think I'd like tech chasing personally because he doesn't have anything that covers that much range at one time except PK fire. But I like the hitstun idea.

Fair, running attack, dash grab, djc nair.... Ness is fast and has enough range to tech chase pretty well.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

tests without DI don't matter.


For example, lucas dthrow is not a chain throw on almost anyone DIing back and away. In fact most of all followups stop working at mid to low percents.

Same with D3 dthrow, etc.

You are wasting your own time testing it without DI because I abalanced those moves explicitly testing DI on heavyweights, floats, FFs, etc

You must have missed my last post where I said I did testing WITH DI. All of those characters have a cg on Snake including Lucas

EDIT: if we are considering dthrow changes....what about making it like Melee Fox dthrow?

EDIT: @WheelofFish - How is the new DI on fair?

 

[[TSON]]

I don't think Ness needs any way to reduce lag on PKT1.

I don't think your .pac sufficiently nerfs Ness, Shanus. I tested it, and yeah, it makes it so fair doesn't combo into itself, but it still combos into reaaally stupid things at even more stupid percents.

Ness mains will hate me for this, but I'd be fine with fair being a bad move. Same with d-throw. He'd definitely be fine without them.

If DK is truly the image of balance in Brawl+, then aim to make Ness as good as DK. Even in your current .pac, he's better.

It's stupid to speed up PKT1 because it buffs his recovery. Ness's main weakness is supposedly his recovery (which is kinda stupid because he has zap jumping, a good second jump, and his up-b can cover a good distance. Sure, he goes into freefall if it's absorbed, but less than half the cast can just jump off the stage into PKT safely).

lol peach mains

gtfo seriously :V

 

[Alphatron]

Saying Ness would be fine without a decent fair is like saying that Peach would be good without her float. It's practically his main approach move.

 

[shanus]

I don't think Ness needs any way to reduce lag on PKT1.

I don't think your .pac sufficiently nerfs Ness, Shanus. I tested it, and yeah, it makes it so fair doesn't combo into itself, but it still combos into reaaally stupid things at even more stupid percents.

Ness mains will hate me for this, but I'd be fine with fair being a bad move. Same with d-throw. He'd definitely be fine without them.

If DK is truly the image of balance in Brawl+, then aim to make Ness as good as DK. Even in your current .pac, he's better.

It's stupid to speed up PKT1 because it buffs his recovery. Ness's main weakness is supposedly his recovery (which is kinda stupid because he has zap jumping, a good second jump, and his up-b can cover a good distance. Sure, he goes into freefall if it's absorbed, but less than half the cast can just jump off the stage into PKT safely).

Uh, did you test against people? Because when I did, the increased SDI + the final hit KBG made it significantly harder to ever land combo moves at higher percents. In fact, sometimes they would SDI straight out of my fair.

I'll wait to here more feedback, but it sounds like you were playing against computers.

 

[CountKaiser]

How does speeding up PKT1 ENDLAG buff his recovery?

He no longer has infinite PKT1, and he won't be getting it back. It's just that right now there is a question of how much faster the endlag should be.

 

[thesage]

How does speeding up PKT1 ENDLAG buff his recovery?

After people eat his thunder, he can grab the edge faster, though he can already grab the edge pretty quickly after pkt1 anyways. It's a neglible buff and I think he was thinking about startup lag.

 

[Alphatron]

Seeing as how startup lag was never buffed, I assumed he was talking about projectile speed, which no one knows how to edit currently anyway.

 

[shanus]

So any new feedback on the test pac i posted a few days back?

 

[Mattnumbers]

I'll test it out later today and tomorrow and get back to you on Sunday when I get home.
What page is it on?

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

So any new feedback on the test pac i posted a few days back?

I'm having some matches with it today. I'll post about it later tonight

 

[[TSON]]

So any new feedback on the test pac i posted a few days back?

Use the new offset I found for DJC }:<

Lol, it's good, really.

 

[CountKaiser]

What is it, exactly?

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Shanus: I played matches today and I think the fair is good. It still felt like it combo'd good when it hit but my opponent escaped it a little over two thirds of the time i used it. I think this fair should only get complaints from people who are failing to DI.

 

[[TSON]]

What is it, exactly?

0E030100 with a value of 1

 

[CountKaiser]

So would the 0E030100 replace both lines of 0E020100?

What's so different about it, anyway? What exactly makes it better?

 

[[TSON]]

Makes you actually have 0 vertical momentum and only gravity and fastfalling can move you. A more of a stall feeling at the beginning, and yes.

 

[CountKaiser]

So you stall in the beginning of it, then start to fall, correct?

Anyone else wanna try this?

BTW, any chance this gets rid of the weird DJC glitch?

 

[[TSON]]

It's a stall FEELING, not an actual stall. And I'll try the DJC glitch but I think the reason that it's so messy is because of the wrappers around it, not the actual value.

 

[CountKaiser]

?

Well, let me just ask this.

On a scale of one to ten, how similar is this to melee djc?

 

[[TSON]]

8ish. I definitely could make a stall if you want me to.

 

[CountKaiser]

Well, that depends.

Does anyone want a stall on the current djc, so that it's more like melee?

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

i dont think i like the sound of this new thing

 

[shanus]

TSON: It kills your horizontal momentum I thought as well? That there eliminates its use immediately. We don't need more of a stall on the DJC, that just slows it down

 

[[TSON]]

TSON: It kills your horizontal momentum I thought as well?

Nope, further testing proved that false

We don't need more of a stall on the DJC, that just slows it down

That's a bad thing?

 

[Ref]

Can we fix that fact that DJC z dropping an item causes you to levitate?

 

[[TSON]]

I think so. But it'd mean getting rid of DJC airdodges >:

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

We could always "Techniques such as Ness/Yoshi's DjC floating may not be used to stall the match and if you put yourself in a position where you could not make it back to the stage then you must lose your stock." and something like "You may not spend more than 20 seconds at a time not above the stage using Ness/Yoshi's DjC float."

That way you can still use the float in your matches, but you cant use it to stall.

 

[[TSON]]

That could work.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

I'm still all for the "not changing things" idea even though we are making these small changes already....I think Shanus' fair worked out well to make the move not so good without changing it a whole lot....this other thing tho seems like a bigger change

also: Can we add light shields in?^_^

 

[Kink-Link5]

Probably not in the way Melee's were, and definitely not through PSA, but I'm sure some coder could make something to the effect of "pressing two shield inputs at once creates a light shield."

I mean hell back when .gct was the only thing being used they created the Hybrid airdodge.

 

[[TSON]]

It definitely sounds possible, although I dunno how resizing the shield's GFX is handled, I wouldn't be surprised if it froze.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

nah....i mean just like melee.....where your shield comes up light by pressing slightly on the triggers and then gets gradually full as you press all the way down

 

[[TSON]]

Yeah, but the big shield effect might not be possible

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

that's what i was told about jc psi magnet before PSA was available