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Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

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Blank Mauser

Smash Champion
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If untechable footstools are brought back. The IC gets there infinite back since it was one of the ways to do the infinite (wobbling) Any fix would be extremely harsh on them. If anything I think footstools should be weaker. You land 1 on somebody like yoshi and its over.


amazing videos by the way. you have a really agressive style and make awesome use of QAC.
Wait, which infinite do you mean? Because the ice lock is really only horizontal, and just cg's them across the stage, which they can pretty much already do with just Dthrow. Also, the Fthrow footstool combo doesn't require them to land, so teching wouldn't effect it.

And thanks. ^_^
 

cman

Smash Ace
Joined
May 17, 2008
Messages
593
Footstools would be a lot more useful if they didn't send you up so high. Currently you can only use one certain move (usually a dair, but sometimes a couple others) out of a footstool before it sends you out of range. If you just hovered right above them after a footstool it would set up a lot more options and tech chasing situations than making it untechable.
 

Swordplay

Smash Lord
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Wait, which infinite do you mean? Because the ice lock is really only horizontal, and just cg's them across the stage, which they can pretty much already do with just Dthrow. Also, the Fthrow footstool combo doesn't require them to land, so teching wouldn't effect it.

And thanks. ^_^
It was something like this. and mistyped I meant Hollbling not Wobbling

Grab>F/D throw>Nana jump>footstool>iceblock/jab to force get up>Repeat=infinate

Only way to break is if you can tech footstool

Vids

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sToFj4B2hmA&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9feI7FD6vk&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOP2Kh_JJ6I&feature=channel_page

Sorry I know its the Pika thread but I had to respond.

====================================================

Anyway Blank. Do you find QAC even more useful in B+? you seem to use it a lot more than the VB pika players and I use to play Pika so yea........

Edit: Never mind, I see the thread was moved............I'm sorry, I lead myself astray, I should have taken it to PM's
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
It was something like this. and mistyped I meant Hobbling not Wobbling

Grab>F/D throw>Nana jump>footstool>iceblock/jab to force get up>Repeat=infinate

Only way to break is if you can tech footstool

Vids

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sToFj4B2hmA&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9feI7FD6vk&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOP2Kh_JJ6I&feature=channel_page

Sorry I know its the Pika thread but I had to respond.

====================================================

Anyway Blank. Do you find QAC even more useful in B+? you seem to use it a lot more than the VB pika players and I use to play Pika so yea........
If IC still have their easier, more effective infinites, why not give them their old harder CGs?
 

VietGeek

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
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8,133
...you can tech footstools in brawl+
I believe the discussion started when Neko pointed out that a currently unreleased fix for Ganon's side-B could be applied to footstools (since you couldn't tech them before), and people started to say how potential exploits could be more potent if that was done (hence IC stuff).

If I'm following the convo right.
 

Blank Mauser

Smash Champion
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Yes you are VietG.

I haven't been informed the method to removing IC's infinites yet, so I didn't really know whether a CG like that would still eventually be possible. I'll just wait and see how IC's are resolved before calling for untechable footstools. Honestly the range for them is so tight it should yield some kind of reward.

@Swordplay: Pikachu's QAC is less risky now without third jump lag so yeah, but what I've really been keen on is his QAL. He no longer has lag from QAL either which means a ton of more versatile follow-ups then just full jump Uair or Nair.
 

Wingflier

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 16, 2008
Messages
161
I really hope they can fix IC's chaingrab soon.

A friend of mine kept getting us up past 100% with chain grabs alone regardless of how much we teched, DI-ed, smash DI-ed, or attempted to grab break. The worse part is when you get up-smashed by nana once you are in kill range.
 

Swordplay

Smash Lord
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it is fixed......don't worry wingflier.......That doesn't work becaues in B+ you can tech footstools and the regular chaingrab was fixed with conditional modifier. I was merely saying that would come back if you COULD tech footstools.

Blank, I kind of got out of Pika during the early phase so you'll have to help me. I know what QAC is but what the heck is QAL? I really want to play pika aggressive like you so I feel like I need to know as much as possible.

Edit: I see, this was moved to nightly builds. I'm sorry I lead my self a-stray. I should have been more careful and taken it to PM's. Now I feel like I let you all down :(
 

SketchHurricane

Smash Ace
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Mar 21, 2008
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Winter Park, FL
it is fixed......don't worry wingflier.......That doesn't work becaues in B+ you can tech footstools and the regular chaingrab was fixed with conditional modifier. I was merely saying that would come back if you COULD tech footstools.
Wait, what was done to the regular CG? I was getting CG'd in 4.2 if I recall...

BTW are the hackers working on anything at the moment? Or are we just balancing in the nightly at this point?
 

goodoldganon

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Wait, what was done to the regular CG? I was getting CG'd in 4.2 if I recall...

BTW are the hackers working on anything at the moment? Or are we just balancing in the nightly at this point?
We lost Spunit and Phantom Wings a while back. Almas is making a new engine so we can get the last few frame adjustments in the game as well as take a load of the loading process. It should make everything run smoother. Paprika Killer is on vacation at the moment but he is working on a few codes, like ledge teching.

Basically we are down to two coders who have a lot of work ahead of them, but our main goal right now is balancing the cast.
 

Shell

Flute-Fox Only
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Messages
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Almas is working on a large engine overhaul. We're reaching the limits of the framespeed engine (127 lines before it gets into the memory needed by other codes), and this overhaul will help us out. I'm not sure whether it'll add any new functions, but it'll be much more efficient. PK has a list of smaller game fixes he's working on.

Edit: Yar, ninja'd by 6 minutes. I'm a slow poster... ^_^
 

goodoldganon

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Almas is working on a large engine overhaul. We're reaching the limits of the framespeed engine (127 lines before it gets into the memory needed by other codes), and this overhaul will help us out. I'm not sure whether it'll add any new functions, but it'll be much more efficient. PK has a list of smaller game fixes he's working on.

Edit: Yar, ninja'd by 6 minutes. I'm a slow poster... ^_^
Get your hand out of your pants and type faster imo
 

Swordplay

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Were bassically almost done arn't we???

I think the only MAJOR code we still need is the throw code.

Of course there are other minor codes still like ledge teching (and I still want an item KB code but W/E)
 

Shell

Flute-Fox Only
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I would still like to see a few more Brawl-specific ATs. Some things to simultaneously deepen its metagame and further differentiate it from past games. As for what those would be, well, I'm not sure.
 

Nybb

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If IC still have their easier, more effective infinites, why not give them their old harder CGs?
Well IIRC the hobbling infinite was retardedly easy on like a quarter of the cast (the heavier/bigger ones I think). The way it works allowed you to just mash buttons and didn't really require any timing whatsoever, which is way easier than their other stuff.

Were bassically almost done arn't we???

I think the only MAJOR code we still need is the throw code.

Of course there are other minor codes still like ledge teching (and I still want an item KB code but W/E)
Throws, fixing the camera codes, and making it so the dash-dancing code doesn't do the thing where it makes the game crash after a match if you push anything. I think there was talk of improving the teching code too.

Also, Roy


SHeLL said:
I would still like to see a few more Brawl-specific ATs. Some things to simultaneously deepen its metagame and further differentiate it from past games. As for what those would be, well, I'm not sure.
You mean intentionally code in something like, say, crouch-cancelling or JC grabs?
 

Nybb

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I think he means AT's that weren't in any previous games that we could add to deepen the metagame.
Well yeah, I know he meant new ones, but I was trying to get a sense of the scope of the ATs he is suggesting, ie. the difference between adding in something similar to wavedashing versus something similar to JC grabs.
 

Shell

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The scope can be anything. Something as simple (but useful) as RARing, or something as complicated but rewarding as waveshining or SWDing etc.

However, as accessibility is something we still prize in Brawl+, easy and useful is preferable. Something that's difficult but sexy and situational could also add a good element of techskill (think moonwalking) without creating an insurmountable divide between those that know a technique and those that do not.
 

_clinton

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So I noticed something when I was playing as Mario this night online...

He seems to freeze randomly...

Also...is Ness' short hop going to be changed again? The fact that he can't hop over things like Sheik's ground needles is a real issue to me considering how now she pretty much forces him into more corners in that fight

Also...Ness' utilt buff is pretty much worthless as far as leading into combos at higher (as in killable % goes)

His dash attack also has some issues...overall if the 3rd hit hits...it will lead into true combos even at higher %s...but they don't chain that well together...so overall I guess that is ok because the follow ups are good...but it still has a bug in a way...

As for his Dsmash...if the idea was to lead into combos...it isn't going that well as well...because even at early % the thing won't combo
 

Revven

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lmao!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! how could something like this get overlooked?
Because... Falco dittos = not fun? Nobody's done Falco dittos so how would we know about this little thing?

Gonna make it important to fix just like some other bugs.

So I noticed something when I was playing as Mario this night online...

He seems to freeze randomly...

Also...is Ness' short hop going to be changed again? The fact that he can't hop over things like Sheik's ground needles is a real issue to me considering how now she pretty much forces him into more corners in that fight

Also...Ness' utilt buff is pretty much worthless as far as leading into combos at higher (as in killable % goes)

His dash attack also has some issues...overall if the 3rd hit hits...it will lead into true combos even at higher %s...but they don't chain that well together...so overall I guess that is ok because the follow ups are good...but it still has a bug in a way...

As for his Dsmash...if the idea was to lead into combos...it isn't going that well as well...because even at early % the thing won't combo
I found Utilt useful in some situations. It's a pretty decent buff, in my opinion. All it was mainly meant to do was to make using his Utilt safer and allow him to Uair after it (which is possible). The DA imo, is fine, it's close to how Falcon's works except pops them up instead of pops them forward and up. Dsmash yeah, it doesn't work that well at all. Probably should just get rid of it and fix the initial hit instead.
 

MK26

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http://www.mediafire.com/?zj2oddmz0yy for ZSS fix!
I would still like to see a few more Brawl-specific ATs. Some things to simultaneously deepen its metagame and further differentiate it from past games. As for what those would be, well, I'm not sure.
Techjumping FTW!

And Silven, that glitch could have something to do with hitting the 127 line limit for the frame speed mod...check if it happens in earlier versions, like 4.1 official
 

Revven

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Techjumping FTW!

And Silven, that glitch could have something to do with hitting the 127 line limit for the frame speed mod...check if it happens in earlier versions, like 4.1 official
How would the frame speed mod have anything to do with Bthrow? Especially considering the fact that we haven't touched Bthrow at all. If it was the frame speed mod, stuff like this wouldn't happen, it'd be all slow like due to loading too many new sped up animations. Something like this IMO is more connected to Falco's grav or the electric hitlag code.
 

MK26

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http://www.mediafire.com/?zj2oddmz0yy for ZSS fix!
How would the frame speed mod have anything to do with Bthrow? Especially considering the fact that we haven't touched Bthrow at all. If it was the frame speed mod, stuff like this wouldn't happen, it'd be all slow like due to loading too many new sped up animations. Something like this IMO is more connected to Falco's grav or the electric hitlag code.
it's a glitch. We've had several glitches happen because of the mod engines going screwy (as far as ive heard). This could simply be one of them.
 

leafgreen386

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it's a glitch. We've had several glitches happen because of the mod engines going screwy (as far as ive heard). This could simply be one of them.
You're right. It certainly could be the frame speed mod interfering. I remember when we tried to speed up throws before and we had the "stick to the thrower" problem, so it's certainly not out of the question, especially when we've already seen other things such as idle animations (which we haven't touched) get affected.
 

Yingyay

Smash Ace
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Dec 4, 2008
Messages
693
Falco's a counter pick for Falco now XD!!!!
The bthrow glitch happened while I was fighting a DK once, we saved the replay and when it came time for the glitch to happen...the replay didnt show it and desynced. So Falco's Bthrow is worth looking into for all the characters I guess.
 

Blank Mauser

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cman

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Is the funky animation on MK's dtilt a result of the frame speed limit as well?
 
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