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Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

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Mr.Pickle

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Hey I've got a question, I recently downloaded the 4.2 nightly build set and I've noticed that some of the characters freeze. Most of the time they only freeze while standing still, so its not really a problem because you can still move afterwords (it just makes their standing animation look really bummy cause they freeze lol).

I didn't really care that much about it until today when I found out that when link dashes he will occasionally freeze, and it takes a second to get him to move. I was just curious as to whether or not there was a way to fix or at least reduce the effect of this problem. Sorry if a question like this has already been asked I'm just to lazy to sift through this huge thread to find an answer.
 

[TSON]

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Try this with Ness:

Backdrop off the edge djump and PKT1 the stage, his head goes through the floor by the ledge and he regrabs. Not sure if the invincibility lasts long enough where it could be punished but just saying. You have to do it quickly.

I can make a vid if you guys need. If someone wants to test the invinciblity then please do.
 

Pyrostormer

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Actually, Stingers may be onto something. After playing with Ness, I feel that, while be may be 'fine', he is not 'good' (in fact, if what the rumors that are going around are true, Ness, in fact, sucks). After some careful brainstorming, I think I concocted a list of buffs that not only will make Ness 'good', but 'top tier'. I found that Ness' entire moveset sucks except for his down B which is exceptionally broken. I figure if we're going to give Ness a theme, why not build it on that?

1. Make Ness' down B come out faster and have more invincibility frames. I'm thinking about from frames 1-10 would do the trick.

2. Make Ness' down B wind hitbox spike characters below him. I saw the Sage trying to do that, and I thought it would be a brilliant mixup to an already useful move. And give it more utility as well.

3. The longer you hold Ness' down B, the farther the wind hitbox should push. When it's fully charged after 5 seconds, it should throw the opponent off a death boundary automatically. No matter what the stage and what the distance may be.

4. To make a good character, everyone knows that the character needs a moveset. Buffing Ness' down B isn't going to constitute a good moveset, so let's improve Ness' other moves. Everyone knows PK Flash sucks, so how about this. Instead of what it normally does, PK Flash should do 0 knockback and 0 damage, but instead have a massive wind hitbox when it detonates instead.

5. Ness' forward smash is considered to be his worst smash. Let's fix that. When you wiff with the fsmash, there should be a wind hitbox that pushes the opponent away instead, making it very safe if you happen to be unlucky and mis-space.

6. Hell, let's make it so that even when you connect with Ness' fsmash, it does 0 knockback and 0 damage, but instead also has a significant wind hitbox, making it safe on shields.

7. Replace Ness' forward smash bat with a fan item instead, and alter the hitbox sound accordingly. Makes sense given the other proposed changes.

8. Ness' side B should, instead of doing fire damage, do 0 damage but instead trap the opponent in multiple opposing wind hitboxes. Not only does this trap them conveniently offstage for spikes and resolves the whole 'being able to DI out of it' issue, but it also makes it more useful against Ivysaur, who could escape PK Fire with ease.

8. Since Ness' recovery sucks *** now without infinite PK Thunder, let's fix that and make it at least not be able to be gimped by people simply running into it. The obvious solution, of course, is to make Ness' Up B Psi Magnet instead of PK Thunder.

9. We know alot of Ness mains were displeased about the WBR removing Infinite PK Thunder, so let's throw them a bone. In addition to making Up B Down B, Ness should also receive INFINITE Psi Magnet. Yes, it will affect Down B as well as Up B. That is how nice I am towards the pro-Infinite PKT supporters' plight :).

10. Increase the momentum of Up/Down B's wavebounce. About 3/4ths the distance of FD should be right. Imagine this scenario: Ness pushes the opponent offstage with his now-useful fsmash. While the opponent is recovering, Ness performs a wavebounced reverse Up/Down B to throw himself to the opponent. Ness releases the Psi Magnet after a charge of about 2 seconds, instantly pushing the recovering enemy off the stage. Ness uses his Zap Jump with wavebounced Up/Down B to return to the stage, using infinite Up/Down B to recover even more if need be. What a sexy edgeguard.

With these tools at his disposal, I believe Ness will be the character everyone can be proud of. A character than both Ness and his mains deserve. I hope both you and stingers (and the rest of the Brawl+ community) will support me in this endeavor.

10jokeposts.

****, I sounded too proper and not whiny enough to be a Ness main, didn't I? Total giveaway.
I think this needs more discussion
 

timothyung

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Try this with Ness:

Backdrop off the edge djump and PKT1 the stage, his head goes through the floor by the ledge and he regrabs. Not sure if the invincibility lasts long enough where it could be punished but just saying. You have to do it quickly.

I can make a vid if you guys need. If someone wants to test the invinciblity then please do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCamPCzVGYA
Something like this?
 

Wander

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Only thing still bothering me about B+ is how high Marth's SH is. It's almost as high as some characters' full jump, and SHDFing still isn't very easy or useful without higher buffer values. His SH'd nair is now really slow and hard to connect on shorter characters because of it.
 

proteininja

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soooooo... what is the wbr actually doing right now? any hints as to the content of the next nightly? I would love a new nightly.
 

Alphatron

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Any word on the stages in the new nightly to come? Also, will Marth be getting any changes?

I still consider Snake and Meta a greater force to be reckoned with than Kirby.
 

weinzey

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Kirby is broken lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4mi2mTEGxs

grabbed at 0% could mean 50-60% by watching di. btw the matches we play are generally pretty even; the other 3 matches on my channel are evident
ur referring to the beginning of ur last stock right? he "only" did 47%, and won't hit u again after the bair, so u wont get anywhere near 60. kirby's grab is his staple combo move and thus its okay to take that much damage. and the reason u lost is kirby's amazing gimp game( which is extremely effective against ness ofc), not his combos.

summing up, kirby aint broken, just a bad mu for ness.
he deserves a damage nerve though imo (thinking of bair mainly)


I still consider Snake and Meta a greater force to be reckoned with than Kirby.
while snake is underrated in brawl+ imo, he aint anywhere near kirby. i can imagine that zelda has problem with him though, since approaching and zelda dont like each other ;)
 

Plum

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ur referring to the beginning of ur last stock right? he "only" did 47%, and won't hit u again after the bair, so u wont get anywhere near 60. kirby's grab is his staple combo move and thus its okay to take that much damage. and the reason u lost is kirby's amazing gimp game( which is extremely effective against ness ofc), not his combos.

summing up, kirby aint broken, just a bad mu for ness.
he deserves a damage nerve though imo (thinking of bair mainly)




while snake is underrated in brawl+ imo, he aint anywhere near kirby. i can imagine that zelda has problem with him though, since approaching and zelda dont like each other ;)
Definitely agree here. Characters who gimp well are just naturally going to be bad for Ness, nothing new there. And in all honesty, from those videos Ness seems like he was keeping up with Kirby onstage rather well. In some cases you were doing very well against Kirby but just made a stupid mistake like getting swallowed offstage.

It isn't just Kirby who can follow Ness offstage and knock him out of his PKT until he dies.
His grab combos are awesome, but limited. Sure if you have poor DI/SDI you can eat ~50% from one combo, but they stop soon after there. It's not like he can consistently pile on that much damage at mid/high percents.

On the topic of Snake:
EXTREMELY underrated. Easily top 10 material still IMO. He easily has the best defense in the game, still has potentially overwhelming stage control, and some stupidly good combos.
Look at Fox: ***** by combos, horrible recovery, outstanding offense.
Look at Snake: ***** by combos, horrible recovery, outstanding defense. Not the best comparison, but the point still stands. You can't abuse his weaknesses when you can't even approach him and get past his defense.
There just really isn't any Snake players out there to show how great he still is.
 

dabridge

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On the topic of Snake:
EXTREMELY underrated. Easily top 10 material still IMO. He easily has the best defense in the game, still has potentially overwhelming stage control, and some stupidly good combos.
Look at Fox: ***** by combos, horrible recovery, outstanding offense.
Look at Snake: ***** by combos, horrible recovery, outstanding defense. Not the best comparison, but the point still stands. You can't abuse his weaknesses when you can't even approach him and get past his defense.
There just really isn't any Snake players out there to show how great he still is.
I see what you mean. There aren't many MK players that are amazing, but we still know he's top tier. Snake isn't getting much attention either probably because it's nice to play lower tier characters and know that you still have a chance to win. :p
 

Plum

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GHNeko

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The only issue with that is that he isnt using the latest nightly but those vids are recent. The 1 frame Falcon nair and lack of Ganon down B jump reset tipped me off. :V
 

weinzey

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well, nightlies were meant for testing and for tweaking in the first place. there's nothing wrong with using the official (bugfree) build. the problem is that officials arent released on a regular basis cause everybody plays the nightly builds anyway. vicious circle.
 

GHNeko

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THe problem with officials is that it takes away test subjects from Nightlys. >_>

That and problems reported in officials are generally taken care off already in nightly.
 

thesage

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It's possible to edgehog Ness while pkt stalling. Nobody in person has done it to me, but a level 1 cpu did it to me once when I was practicing it.

I was going to make a video about it and all the different form of ledgestalling, but since vbrawl is really gay I decided not to...

You can also use pkt1 to "sweetspot" your double jump by sending it into the stage.

I haven't really tested out the possibilities for it's usage with brawl+'s lagless ledges code.
 

Finns7

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Can someone answer me this

Why is lucarios upb buff needed?

Should snakes utilt/filt hitbox be changed to fit the animation? Its not like he cant get buffed in another area, I want every character to be viable. Its not broken but it doesnt look right to me, I kno its smash and its a fantasy game but I cant think of no other physical attack in the game thats hitbox is that off. Ganon has it too, I think all invisible hitboxes should be changed, unless there justified or make sense (magic effects/aura)

Alot of techs, strats and mindgames in brawl can be reused in +, this includes mindgames for utilt utilizing its range. If changed it would prob require the snake player to rethink how he uses snake in some situations, but again we can help snake out in another area.

I think it should fit the animation, its not true to metal gear or anything, even though its smash he is a human, lets extend falcons kne........................O_o wait nvm that sounds sinful and dirty, but anyway It looks off, and should be changed to me, if not add magic or some dumb element to justify it.
 

Shell

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I actually brought up the Snake tilt dilemma yesterday. Odds are we're not going to change the hitboxes at this point (as much as I'd love to :p). However, I too thought it would be at least worthwhile to add some effects to the animations that roughly match the hitboxes.
 

Finns7

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And why not? I mean really if you never played brawl and jumped into brawl+ and were at a tourney and played snake and this **** happened, utilt _________________________________________ GAME then most likely youd be angry, It looks like sakurai was kissing major *** to me ;p.

Thats prob not going to happen though and we all delt with it since it released, its just I was thinking why dont we correct the wrong (which can be argued) I mean its a fighting game and seeing is a big part of videogames, spacing too, you can say we all know the range by now.

Idk I think we should definately try it, but also give him buffs in some areas to help cope with the loss.
 

Jimbo_G

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I don't mind that Snake has disjointed tilts too much. What bothers me is that they're SOOO big! If they were dubbed down just a bit, just the slightest bit, I'd be perfectly satisfied. He does kind of need them to an extent, as his aerial movement is garbage, making his air attacks some-what situational. However, their current range is just absurd. With our nightly Brawl parties we have every week there have been many instances where Snake would Up-Tilt a jabbing Falco from 1/4 the length of Battle Field, among other odd Snake occurrences.

He can keep the disjointed hitboxes. Let's just tone them down a notch and see how that works. =P
 

KOkingpin

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I don't mind that Snake has disjointed tilts too much. What bothers me is that they're SOOO big! If they were dubbed down just a bit, just the slightest bit, I'd be perfectly satisfied. He does kind of need them to an extent, as his aerial movement is garbage, making his air attacks some-what situational. However, their current range is just absurd. With our nightly Brawl parties we have every week there have been many instances where Snake would Up-Tilt a jabbing Falco from 1/4 the length of Battle Field, among other odd Snake occurrences.

He can keep the disjointed hitboxes. Let's just tone them down a notch and see how that works. =P
i can say with a video to prove it that I outspaced Falco's Reflector with a snake upTilt. Thats pretty rediculous if you ask me. Although i think it is still super funny that it happened
 

timothyung

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We can't just change things because "it doesn't make sense". For example Snake users are used to the ftilit and utilt hitboxes for a year and half. If you change that many people will be whining. Learn the hitboxes. Though now with PSA, we can add effects. Hopefully we can add effects to those "nonsense" hitboxes
 

Strong Badam

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so i herd that fighting game players were supposed to be able to adapt?
 

GHNeko

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i can say with a video to prove it that I outspaced Falco's Reflector with a snake upTilt. Thats pretty rediculous if you ask me. Although i think it is still super funny that it happened
Considering that Falco's reflector hitboxes dont match the animation and Falco extends his hurtbox during the down B animation.

That doesnt sound quite redonk to me at all. :V

As a yoshi user, I'm sure you know all about extending your hurtbox during an attack. *coughfsmashcough*

Stop complaining about Snake's tilts. They're one sided and we've done been learning how to get around them with little issues other than bad timing on our parts / good timing on Snakes. <_>

EDIT: **** man. Past few pages have made me realize how conservative I can be. lmao. That's ****ing weird.
 

[TSON]

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It's possible to edgehog Ness while pkt stalling. Nobody in person has done it to me, but a level 1 cpu did it to me once when I was practicing it.

I was going to make a video about it and all the different form of ledgestalling, but since vbrawl is really gay I decided not to...

You can also use pkt1 to "sweetspot" your double jump by sending it into the stage.

I haven't really tested out the possibilities for it's usage with brawl+'s lagless ledges code.
Lagless ledges just makes everything faster

Meaning should someone decide to go down and try to bair or fair you

You can easily bair them back, or spike them, or whatever it is we ness mains do these days ;B
 

Alphatron

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so i herd that fighting game players were supposed to be able to adapt?
MK mains were used to thier character being awfully good and now have to cope with nerfs and no buffs at all. I don't think Snake mains would mind either an animation effect or a slight hitbox nerf...too much.
 

JCaesar

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They're one sided and we've done been learning how to get around them with little issues other than bad timing on our parts / good timing on Snakes. <_>
Snake's tilts still beat everything even with BAD timing because of how long the hitboxes linger, on top of their enormous size and priority. Just throwing that out there. Definitely not saying it's broken. I personally don't think Snake is even top 10 right now (but admittedly that could be because I'm a ROB main and I counter the hell out of Snakes :p)
 

Plum

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It would be one thing if we saw Snake clearly dominating the cast to adjust his tilts.
But seriously, he warrants no nerfs; especially when the nerf being asked is just because people feel something is too good while in all honesty it is just very good. Big difference between very good and too good.

Snake needs his tilts, they define his character, other changes in B+ nerfed his tilts (higher grav making Utilt kill at reasonable percents for instance) yatta yatta yatta. Heck, if anything the most broken part about Snake is his **** grenades (I'm not suggesting anything here, I'm just saying that effective grenade use is much harder to deal with than his tilts).
 

GHNeko

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Snake's tilts still beat everything even with BAD timing because of how long the hitboxes linger, on top of their enormous size and priority. Just throwing that out there. Definitely not saying it's broken. I personally don't think Snake is even top 10 right now (but admittedly that could be because I'm a ROB main and I counter the hell out of Snakes :p)
I have yet to have Snake tilts beat a smart player with bad timing. That's why it was badly timed. ;V
 

SketchHurricane

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The side hitboxes of Snake's utilt can be nerfed, and it would still be a ridiculous anti-air. That's what it should have been in the first place IMO. There's really no reason it should hit people 3 light years in front of him.

BTW, are there any Ness vids showing off good use of the new magnet? Haven't gotta to see it yet...
 

GHNeko

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OH. Cuba. that reminds me. play mikeHAZE in plus when you pick him up from the airport. The guy has mad potential in plus LOL.

He's mad fun to play.
 
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