Shadic
Alakadoof?
It was a big thing for anybody who pays attention to Wii hacking past Brawl stuff.
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Brawl+ Official Codeset Gold Discussion
- Thread starter The Cape
- Start date
- Status
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
i've heard of waninkoko, but who was the other guy?
Shadic
Alakadoof?
One of the big names in Team Twiizers.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
i'm kind of hoping for more of an explanation of what happened.
MK26
Smash Master
i just checked hackmii and got nothing
Shadic
Alakadoof?
Original post by Marcan after Waninkoko released the first USB Loader.
Waninkoko's retort.
Marcan immediately quits.
Waninkoko's retort.
Marcan immediately quits.
MK26
Smash Master
^^ those are links and not just wacky blue/inferior-skinned-colour font
interesting tho
EDIT: i just realized how ugly the other skins are
Shadic
Alakadoof?
Real men use Smash Blue.
MK26
Smash Master
Seris
Smash Journeyman
http://www.youtube.com/user/TanArmyGaming#p/c/BFA0005378557653
Added a brawl+ playlist for the TAG tournaments that range from 6.0 - Gold. Check em out.
Added a brawl+ playlist for the TAG tournaments that range from 6.0 - Gold. Check em out.
StrikerX22
Smash Rookie
Srsly guys, try not to rub things in people's faces so much. FroHo know ppl aren't happy with him. I'm not saying I like him or agree with him most of the time, but after seeing Waffle's post, I don't blame him in the slightest.
Waffle's been a pathetic, pathetic child in every post he's made here so far. I'm not saying he's not right. I don't have what it takes to judge that, other than the feel of it, in which I agree. Either way it would be NICE to actually have an EXPLANATION from him for those of us that don't know all the "abominations" that result from the border change. Sorry, but while we can certainly guess at what the effects are, the "obvious" horrendous flaws are only that way to pro's. Surprise. If you look at posts back, people were discussing that back and forth and disagreeing somewhat on the overall effects. That means it's not obvious to nonpro's.
FroHo, sometimes it's just better to say you'll try not to be harsh and not defend yourself even if you are able to. Eventually you just look like you're fighting to save face even if you're in the right somewhat. Changing the subject doesn't help much either. I too rage over idiots. And it's always better to give the benefit of the doubt so it doesn't bite you in the arse later, if not just to avoid creating situations like this where ppl's feelings finally boil over.
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I know I'm butting my head into it (but it's all just so sad), but I do wish the discussion would get less on drama and more on repercussions to current changes and thoughts on new ones.
I know some ppl want there to be a "Gold" set and the BR wants to feel like they can relax a bit in the mind-melt that is balancing, probably. But I know there's plenty of people who don't care about going "gold" until it really is finished (minus bugs). I personally feel that it should continue being a malleable situation. Yeah sure, 6 months, assuming everything's fine, but it doesn't appear to be that way, so call it off again for now. Don't be rushed to make it what it apparently isn't yet.
last post :emoquit: =P
edit: and oh yeah, After my hiatus on brawl, I really have wished it'd be faster. I'm not a melee lover all that much but it really is still slow.
[Rambling: And I know someone better that does prefer melee and hadn't played in a while with a similar opinion, tho more focused on the floatiness. That's the sad thing.... one thing that's kept me from playing as much is a group of friends much better than me didn't want to anymore > >. I've tried to show them B+ more but to little effect.]
Waffle's been a pathetic, pathetic child in every post he's made here so far. I'm not saying he's not right. I don't have what it takes to judge that, other than the feel of it, in which I agree. Either way it would be NICE to actually have an EXPLANATION from him for those of us that don't know all the "abominations" that result from the border change. Sorry, but while we can certainly guess at what the effects are, the "obvious" horrendous flaws are only that way to pro's. Surprise. If you look at posts back, people were discussing that back and forth and disagreeing somewhat on the overall effects. That means it's not obvious to nonpro's.
FroHo, sometimes it's just better to say you'll try not to be harsh and not defend yourself even if you are able to. Eventually you just look like you're fighting to save face even if you're in the right somewhat. Changing the subject doesn't help much either. I too rage over idiots. And it's always better to give the benefit of the doubt so it doesn't bite you in the arse later, if not just to avoid creating situations like this where ppl's feelings finally boil over.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I know I'm butting my head into it (but it's all just so sad), but I do wish the discussion would get less on drama and more on repercussions to current changes and thoughts on new ones.
I know some ppl want there to be a "Gold" set and the BR wants to feel like they can relax a bit in the mind-melt that is balancing, probably. But I know there's plenty of people who don't care about going "gold" until it really is finished (minus bugs). I personally feel that it should continue being a malleable situation. Yeah sure, 6 months, assuming everything's fine, but it doesn't appear to be that way, so call it off again for now. Don't be rushed to make it what it apparently isn't yet.
last post :emoquit: =P
edit: and oh yeah, After my hiatus on brawl, I really have wished it'd be faster. I'm not a melee lover all that much but it really is still slow.
[Rambling: And I know someone better that does prefer melee and hadn't played in a while with a similar opinion, tho more focused on the floatiness. That's the sad thing.... one thing that's kept me from playing as much is a group of friends much better than me didn't want to anymore > >. I've tried to show them B+ more but to little effect.]
Bandit
Smash Lord
This statement embodies the border changes.
I found awhile ago that when Veril did the changes, he did them to have kill moves kill 10-15% earlier. This is generally not happening.
Edge guard techniques are leading to side kills instead of gimp attempts; mid-percent combos can lead to kills depending on where in the air the opponent is. Moves are now overpowered and killing much earlier.
Any aerial with vertical knockback angle just got a huge buff with the lower ceilings.
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The whole reason that this game feels slow is not because stuff doesn't combo as well as it used to or that the games were taking longer; it has everything to do with this:
A superior defensive game is the best option.
Projectile camping, bair camping, 'nade camping, etc is still the superior option rather than offensive approaches. The shield is huge and there is never a threat of it breaking. The shield stun may not allow for much OoS action which slows down shield camping, but it doesn't mean that defense isn't the best option
At Pound 4, the grand finals were played by two of the best Brawl players in the world. Lee Martin and Ally. The biggest complaint about both players was that they were playing the matches like they were still playing brawl. It's not that they don't know how to play their brawl+ counterparts; it was because that style of play is still the most effective.
Effective play is what wins competitive tournaments. It may not be the "funnest" way to play, but playing the "fun" way won't win you anything. In the tournament world, people play to win. When they win, they have fun.
I would agree completely. I don't like the mentality that B+ can't go in a direction that could vastly improve the gameplay because it is so late in its production, but I also fully understand why it couldn't really be done.
We have 6 months ahead of us, and yes, we could overhaul the entire game, but the amount of rage there would be coming to a brand new game after 6 months with the current set would be just ridiculous.
Right now, the best thing for players to do is accept the direction B+ has taken and do everything they can to make that direction feel as natural as possible and play as best as it can.
People, report EVERYTHING that you notice about the new boundaries. EVERYTHING. This would make the BR+'s job sooo much easier over the next several months when it comes to how exactly these changes impact the game. For instance, I made a post several pages back on how the lower ceilings really **** over Wario's full Waft because it's practically auto suicide with some of the new changes. I believe that's something that reaaally needs to be addressed after this time period (if not immediately, because it effects Wario's ability to be played at all levels)
Another example would be how effective MK's rising Uair combos are; it would need more testing to confirm how good the tactic is, but I've seen MK killing people off the top of the stage fairly easily because he can carry you up to the low ceilings now with rising Uairs.
Complaints are always good as they bring issues up that might not have been otherwise, but feedback about those issues > complaints. Why are the new boundaries terrible? What exactly has become a game breaking tactic or just become really messed up because of them? Those kind of things.
And yes, Jiang is amazing. The man is ****ing hilarious.
Jiangjunizzy
Smash Lord
I have a solution.
Let's make Brawl+2! Imagine the horizons we could explore, the valleys we could uncover, the crooks we could unveil. All our problems solved! Brawl+ and its devotees can revel in it's state of dilapidation, while we can breath new life into Brawl+2 and make it the very best like no one ever was. How can you argue with that?!
Let's make Brawl+2! Imagine the horizons we could explore, the valleys we could uncover, the crooks we could unveil. All our problems solved! Brawl+ and its devotees can revel in it's state of dilapidation, while we can breath new life into Brawl+2 and make it the very best like no one ever was. How can you argue with that?!
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
can't.
DotheDiddyMonkeyDance
Smash Apprentice
This is my opinion to why probably Ally said those words.
well tbqh in that match Ally choose Wario right? Idk what it is but Wario and Snake don't feel like they benefit from the hitstun and well at least Warios tilts are pretty bad for linking up combos to deliver a final blow. Snake sorta suffers the same thing with while being a campy character alot of his moves hit to hard that really don't combo into each other. But then again snake has such a wierd/odd style of gameplay.
What bandit says is true though but you have to cater to all not just hardcore smashers that only play for tournies. I would love to go to a tourney for B+ but avast I live in Michigan and B+ really doesn't seem to happen. hell even Vbrawl doesn't seem to get many tournies around here. I know you people would ask why even bother playing the game then. I personally play it because its still a hell of a lot better than Vbrawl, and its fun regardless of a tourney or not. But as they say Practice practice practice.
well tbqh in that match Ally choose Wario right? Idk what it is but Wario and Snake don't feel like they benefit from the hitstun and well at least Warios tilts are pretty bad for linking up combos to deliver a final blow. Snake sorta suffers the same thing with while being a campy character alot of his moves hit to hard that really don't combo into each other. But then again snake has such a wierd/odd style of gameplay.
What bandit says is true though but you have to cater to all not just hardcore smashers that only play for tournies. I would love to go to a tourney for B+ but avast I live in Michigan and B+ really doesn't seem to happen. hell even Vbrawl doesn't seem to get many tournies around here. I know you people would ask why even bother playing the game then. I personally play it because its still a hell of a lot better than Vbrawl, and its fun regardless of a tourney or not. But as they say Practice practice practice.
lookitslink
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2009
- Messages
- 11
Is there a code list for Brawl+ somewhere? (not in .gct form, since Code Manager only opens .txt files)
Thunderhorse+
Smash Ace
DotheDiddyMonkeyDance
Smash Apprentice
actually wasnt there one within the previous Zipfile or in the manual file download on well what is now smashmods.com. I have an old txt file with some of the codes in it but I mean its back before everything got fixed so I need to get a new one as well.
Shadic
Alakadoof?
The problem is, this has been repeated over and over again for the last sixth months, if not longer. Sure, B+ is getting more and more polished, finalized, and professional, but the thing that's being polished is a product that a lot of people still have basic complaints about. It seems the project's leadership is firmly rooted in their stance, but it is a general disagreement over B+.
(I'm not trying to start a fight here, I'm just pointing out what everybody should acknowledge.)
Project M.
DotheDiddyMonkeyDance
Smash Apprentice
Tuche shadic but o heaven forbid the P:M OP thread
Seris
Smash Journeyman
I'm on Hobo's side on this one. Waffle came in with no helpful criticism and really didnt deserve any kind of civil response. If you guys want to study the boundary changes ill post a link to TAG XXIX which used the newest code set. (even the completely changed PS1)
http://www.youtube.com/user/TanArmyGaming#p/c/ECC35AD7CAB657AF
That is the entire singles playlist except for grand finals feat. Zex vs. Catnip.
http://www.youtube.com/user/TanArmyGaming#p/c/ECC35AD7CAB657AF
That is the entire singles playlist except for grand finals feat. Zex vs. Catnip.
VanillaWaffle
Smash Apprentice
i did come in with no helpful critisism. never did i claim to be helping you fellas out. however i was civil in my language, if not a bit whiny but you try and not be pissed off after going from a good version of the game to this horrible version. I'm not here to solve your problems or offer solutions to lifes mysteries, im here to inform you that your player base is unhappy and will most likely ditch you for project m unless something changes.
btw on my earlier point, civility deserves civility.
edit - looking back i did offer several viable alternatives to the change in boundaries so im really not sure what youre talking about seris.
btw on my earlier point, civility deserves civility.
edit - looking back i did offer several viable alternatives to the change in boundaries so im really not sure what youre talking about seris.
Hey guys, I know I'm a nobody here, but I have to say I agree with Jiang when he says he doesn't understand the mentality that no more dramatic changes must happen to Brawl+ at this point in the game. I mean pre-GSH era with the higher hitstun, so many people were talking about changing physics and hitstun to get rid of easy combos. The WBR pretty much gave the same response Jiang is getting now, "It's too far into development to make such a major and game altering change." Well Cape came in and lowered the hitstun and all of a sudden everyone started nerd-gasming over how great the change was, and from there on out it became a permanent change. Now, because of that change people are complaining that the game is too slow and we're being told AGAIN that it's too late in development to change anything major. The only difference now is that we don't have a well respected community member willing to step up and force a change.
Wasn't the whole point of Brawl+ to get FUN SPEED ACTIVATE? Well all of a sudden we've lost the speed and now people are even arguing that we've lost the fun.
Wasn't the whole point of Brawl+ to get FUN SPEED ACTIVATE? Well all of a sudden we've lost the speed and now people are even arguing that we've lost the fun.
CountKaiser
Smash Lord
Here's an interesting question.
What did those guys think about the new boundary changes?
Seris
Smash Journeyman
@Count - I told them but none of them really had anything to say about it. Personally I like the boundary changes but I have yet to look at them from a game developers prospective.
@Waffle - Later on you made some constructive points, just initially when you came in, it wasnt very helpful so I could see where his response came from.
In general (not related to waffle), some of the people who post in here demanding things from the Brawl+ development team need to realize they dont get compensated for this. People should come in here without the mindset that they owe you anything.
As for the boundary changes, Ill keep an eye out for anything that is gamebreaking and use my recording equipment to upload examples if I find any.
@Waffle - Later on you made some constructive points, just initially when you came in, it wasnt very helpful so I could see where his response came from.
In general (not related to waffle), some of the people who post in here demanding things from the Brawl+ development team need to realize they dont get compensated for this. People should come in here without the mindset that they owe you anything.
As for the boundary changes, Ill keep an eye out for anything that is gamebreaking and use my recording equipment to upload examples if I find any.
Frogles
Smash Ace
i like jiang i think hes cool
Shadic
Alakadoof?
Just because we don't do B+ stuff doesn't mean all of us don't work on other projects.
bleyva
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2009
- Messages
- 511
im not sure if i see anyone "demanding" anything here, it looks like theyre just voicing their complaints. i see no harm there.
however, if compensation is the name of the game here, i'd be more than happy to pay veril $1.00 to make changes as i see fit.
monetary offer is non-negotiable :3
I think I've come to this very same conclusion myself as of late.
I've been pushing for gravity changes forever, and even went as far as to test out various individual character gravity setting tweaks myself and sharing my results publicly. I even posted the gravity codes I used, and suggested people try them out or tweak them slightly if need be. Even shanus, back when he was leading this project, looked interested, and asked that I send him some codes for testing. And of course, I would also get crap about how "it's too disruptive at this point to change character gravity settings."
Then, sometime before the release of version 6.0, I heard from at least one developer (sadly, I can't remember exactly who they were) that physics were being seriously looked into so as to increase the pace of the game, which I publicly lauded. And lo and behold... almost nothing changed. If anything, some characters actually got floatier since then.
And then when people complained that the game felt too slow and matches took too long, we got boundary changes, in and of themselves a big game-changer. Yet some are not satisfied. And in some ways, I don't blame them. I've been following this project since it consisted of nothing but no tripping, MAD, and S-canceling, and the only reason we didn't get fast-paced action was because we lacked the codes, but the will was there.
Somehow, that will, that desire to make "Fun Speed Activate" a reality, got lost sometime after the Plussery was established, and reasons varied from concern over ATs like Marth's double fair not working right to there simply being other priorities. Both were fair points, so I waited patiently, hoping they'd eventually get around to it, only to see the reasons gradually change into things like "we're too far into development to rebalance" and "we don't wanna replicate Melee." Naturally, I became increasingly displeased at the growing conservatism of the project.
...
I'm inclined to agree with what shanus said about Brawl+ currently being a victim of its development progression. It was the first to do what it did, and as such, it could not hope to realistically fulfill the ambitions of those who began the project with the extremely limited tools at our disposal at the time. So they compromised early on. Of course, as new tools and new codes came out, more and more drastic changes were made, to the point that each new codeset, before and after the Plussery, might as well have been an entirely different game.
With such drastic changes and such a chaotic line of developmental focus, it is definitely understandable why it turned out the way it has, and why the current developers have decided to slow down and eventually halt the development of the project beyond very minor changes and fixes. Had we had the focus and the tools we now have back when the project began, I'm pretty sure Brawl+ would have likely turned out much closer to Project: M than it is now. Well, maybe sans wavedashing and L-canceling, but the pace would've likely been about that, because I could sense that's where the ambition lay.
Speaking of Project: M, it's a testament to how disappointed I've become with Brawl+ that I dream of the day it finally comes out. Of course, lots of people feel that way, because it does promise to be a kick-*** game. But nevertheless, when it was first revealed, I thought to myself, it'll be a while until it comes out, so at least I got Brawl+ to tide me over. Yet I'm kind of bored with it now, to be honest. And worst of all, I'm not alone. Even my friends are getting tired of it. It got to the point that, for curiosity's sake, we tried out Brawl-, and we actually had quite a bit of silly fun. My cousin, with whom I used to played Melee quite competently, even said he found it to be more fun than Brawl+, which we have been playing for a long time. That actually speaks quite a bit for me.
Nevertheless, I still play Brawl+, because I've gotten good at the game and I know it well. Yet I can't stop yearning for what it could've been, and I wonder if it's really necessary for it to end development when it seems to me, and apparently many others, it could use a much put-off revamp. And as I do, I tell myself, well, if they never do, at least you'll have Project: M. And I'm afraid a fair bit of people are gonna be thinking that same thing as well, if they're not already.
MuBa
Smash Lord
*Sigh* I've been gone away for a long time and this is what happens. I knew I shouldn't have left the B+ Back Room or else this would've happened >_>
Shadic
Alakadoof?
Back when we had individual multiple sets, wasn't yours the one with quite high gravity?
/nostalgia
First Wind Owl, now you. All we're missing now is Mookie lol.
MuBa
Smash Lord
Lol yea. Well I tried making it the true FUN SPEED ACTIVATE since I love hardcore face paced action packed fighting games (MvC2 Inspired YEA!!!!!!!!!)
Seris
Smash Journeyman
I was referring to posts like this.
I love face paced games too. :D
CountKaiser
Smash Lord
As an example of what? Someone demanding something when they should keep in mind that the wbr isn't paid?
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
Lets see if we can't fix some problems, shall we?
Now, i know that most of you hold the opinion that i am an arrogant, lazy, conceited dumb *** who does nothing but ***** at people and state my own superiority. as it stands, you are free to think what you want. hell, i'd encourage the perpetuation of that image if i actually gave a **** about the opinions of people i've never met. but i digress.
i will admit that in the past i have flown off the handle and said things that should not have been, and for that i am sorry. however, i don't feel that this is the case with waffle. you clearly came into this topic with the full intent of quitting the game despite any reassurances anybody may have given you. the same can be said of the majority of the people in here. how many have already given up on B+ and are just waiting for P:M? if there's one thing i've learned, its that once a person has made up their mind it is nigh impossible to convince them otherwise. if you think B+ is dead and find it boring then you've already dropped it, whether you realize it yet or not; promised fixes or not.
i may not be good at PR, but i do know that there's no point in trying to talk down a person who's already jumped. i can't promise that i'll be the nicest person in the world, but i will say that i'll try harder not to insult every single person who complains. however, don't expect me to fight to keep players when they've already decided to drop B+ for P:M. there's just no point in fighting that hard.
Now, i know that most of you hold the opinion that i am an arrogant, lazy, conceited dumb *** who does nothing but ***** at people and state my own superiority. as it stands, you are free to think what you want. hell, i'd encourage the perpetuation of that image if i actually gave a **** about the opinions of people i've never met. but i digress.
i will admit that in the past i have flown off the handle and said things that should not have been, and for that i am sorry. however, i don't feel that this is the case with waffle. you clearly came into this topic with the full intent of quitting the game despite any reassurances anybody may have given you. the same can be said of the majority of the people in here. how many have already given up on B+ and are just waiting for P:M? if there's one thing i've learned, its that once a person has made up their mind it is nigh impossible to convince them otherwise. if you think B+ is dead and find it boring then you've already dropped it, whether you realize it yet or not; promised fixes or not.
i may not be good at PR, but i do know that there's no point in trying to talk down a person who's already jumped. i can't promise that i'll be the nicest person in the world, but i will say that i'll try harder not to insult every single person who complains. however, don't expect me to fight to keep players when they've already decided to drop B+ for P:M. there's just no point in fighting that hard.
JCaesar
Smash Hero
Well said, and I agree 100%.
I would like to point out that Plum and I and a few others pushed for higher gravity during the GSH phase. A handful of characters got small tweaks and that was the end of it.
Just FYI, Waffle hates P:M. He is primarily a vBrawl player but Brawl+ was his favorite smash game until 7.0 came out.
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