Brawl+ Official Codeset Gold Discussion

[VietGeek]

i like hype

despite bitter and heavy hearts hopeful that it will not aid rarth

oh hellz yes it will aid rarth

his juggle traps will kill earlier now, in theory (which as you know common sense governs smash hoes like gravity governs foreign objects on the moon)

but yeah link and toon link will have a field day even if the change is barely noticeable rofl

**** you zeonstar go to georgia tournaments and **** little high schoolers who think they're big shots at life xD

EDIT 2: ceiling changes will basically help everyone as this game like brawl still largely emphasizes vertical KOs over horizontal. i don't really need to explain why this still is the case. go stalk jiang and his turtle-obsessed ***'s posts or something <_<

 

[wowoduend]

WC Brawl+ is dead......unless someone becomes a hero and hype up Brawl+ there.

 

[Veril]

i like hype

despite bitter and heavy hearts hopeful that it will not aid rarth

oh hellz yes it will aid rarth

his juggle traps will kill earlier now

up-throw up-air

At the higher levels of play everyone is getting KOed primarily off the top due to DI or gimped/faired by puff balls. This change will help everyone who wants faster matches (and if you don't you should just get really good at planking in vBrawl, imo worst unintentional minigame ever).

 

[Plum]

At the higher levels of play everyone is getting KOed primarily off the top due to DI or gimped/faired by puff balls. This change will help everyone who wants faster matches (and if you don't you should just get really good at planking in vBrawl, imo worst unintentional minigame ever).

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=267257

And people play vBrawl why?
Even frame data supports that MK is perfect in vBrawl.

Spoiler

Veril, you should be a cool kid and get frame data on MK planking in B+

 

[BG3]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=267257

And people play vBrawl why?
Even frame data supports that MK is perfect in vBrawl.

Spoiler

Veril, you should be a cool kid and get frame data on MK planking in B+

So, can you actually conclude that the vbrawl devs designed him with little to no flaws(pretty much borderline perfect) compared with the rest of the cast?

 

[Alphatron]

They probably just weren't thinking.

"olol Neta Knight's Side B does 30% damage in the beta demo? Y not!"

 

[Veril]

Definitely. Several rules have to be put in place to deal with tactics that either only MK can perform or he can abuse to a massively greater degree than the rest of the cast. I am actually going to help with MK's planking frame data for vBrawl (see DMG's thread in tactical) cause its absurd and makes me sad. Also will someday post MK's vBrawl adv on up-air... maybe

DMG's work highlights the single worst thing about vBrawl imo, what we have to make sure is completely dealt with for the Gold release. Planking (with MK esp) is seriously a microcosm for everything wrong in that game.

With invincibility frame decay or a comparable fix + the IDC fix we'll be dealing away with any reason for MK-related surgical rule-based fixes. Making the ledge less safe and removing the ability to plank, and removing IDC completely gets rid of any need for two surgical rules. Also nobody in B+ has any reason to even be considered for a ban. Other fixes will remove some lingering BS like several stalls and IC's fusion glitch.

 

[Alphatron]

How's the chain jacket fix coming along? Will it be removed completely, or can it be fixed to not freeze the game?

 

[Veril]

Magus proposed a fix that, if it works, will preserve the glitch without allowing it to freeze the game. Since the glitch itself isn't broken or even a problem really, I will go with that over removing it entirely.

 

[Mattnumbers]

I miss Brawl+ so much...............

By the way is there any sort of changelist at all for the last couple releases? I've been busy with life related stuff and when I do get to play smash most people in AK play Melee (which I agree is an amazing game and more competitive, but I actually prefer B+)

 

[DQP]

I miss Brawl+ so much...............

By the way is there any sort of changelist at all for the last couple releases? I've been busy with life related stuff and when I do get to play smash most people in AK play Melee (which I agree is an amazing game and more competitive, but I actually prefer B+)

hey man, i'm an alaskan brawl+ player.

i'd be interested to see a changelist too. i've noticed that bowser does a lot better in near-gold than before.

 

[Isatis]

Blind is currently the guy leading the changelist work at the moment, you'll have to get a status update from him.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

Hi all, hopefully you guys are aware of my huge posts a few pages back regarding survivability in this game. After that bout I remembered something from way back when Brawl+ was in it's infancy, and I think it may be the key to our problems about surviving. I have a new proposal to make so first of all let me explain something very quickly.

Every move in the game has an angle attached to it, be it 90 degrees, 180 degrees, 40 degrees, etc. However, many of the moves in the game (especially finishing moves) have a special angle function which was I will dub the Sakurai angle for simplicity's sake. I'm pretty sure most of you guys working in PSA or hexing are aware of this, but I think it's something we can take another look at. Anyway, as far as I know, the Sakurai angle increases the angle at which the target unit flies depending on how high their percent is. So at 20%, they'll fly at a semi-spike angle, and by 100% they'll fly almost 90 degrees.

So here's what I propose - remove (many of) them. Especially on moves meant for gimping off stage. Make it so that the angles on these moves are static. Maybe you can edit the Sakurai angle itself, change it's parameters, etc? I believe this will fix a lot of the survivability issues, force people to DI, and lastly, increase the speed of the game. I'm not sure if the Sakurai angle was in melee/smash64, but I don't think it needs to be there in the first place. I understand this is a lot of work, but it's much less work than fine tuning gravity.

If I am sorely mistaken about this, or forgot what this special angle function did, please let me know.

 

[Revven]

jiang, that's another HUGE change that's probably not going to happen.

 

[Wind Owl]

Project M is removing all of them ~_^

 

[Alphatron]

Project M is removing all of them ~_^

So Zelda's dtilt will no longer combo into lightning kick, it seems.

 

[Mattnumbers]

I really think that we should lower edge snap ranges, hasn't that been a goal for a LONG time already? It doesn't change that much aside from general difficulty in recovering.

And Falco I don't think that converting the sakarai angled moves to a static value would be that huge of a project, couldn't you just set them to always go at the angle they would send an opponent at X% (probably something around 30-50%)

After that you would have to fine tune some moves, but I think most of them would still work fine.

 

[Wind Owl]

So Zelda's dtilt will no longer combo into lightning kick, it seems.

Zelda's Dtilt never had the Sakurai angle. It has a couple different parts but the tiltlock/setup one sends at 270°.

We're still not sure what we're doing with it.

 

[Revven]

I really think that we should lower edge snap ranges, hasn't that been a goal for a LONG time already? It doesn't change that much aside from general difficulty in recovering.

And Falco I don't think that converting the sakarai angled moves to a static value would be that huge of a project, couldn't you just set them to always go at the angle they would send an opponent at X% (probably something around 30-50%)

After that you would have to fine tune some moves, but I think most of them would still work fine.

It's a BUNCH of moves in every single character's pac. Then there's testing the angles and making sure they're right and on top of deciding what move needs to be changed to a normal angle. Plus, that may change DI of those moves in some way.

It's a stupidly long process to keep a set back for that's claiming to only have minor needed tweaks. Furthermore, edge snapping distances fall under too big of a change too.

If you don't like the policy, talk to Veril.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

If my kill moves stop sending people in the perfect angle to not die until 130% from the middle of the stage, then I'm jumping on the bandwagon to remove the **** out of the Sakurai angles. >_>

Though it does sound like quite a lot of work. o.o

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

jiang, that's another HUGE change that's probably not going to happen.

You guys are a bunch of lazy ****s.

I'm sorry, but I had to say it.

Is that the only excuse you guys have? Is that what everything boils down to? When I'm done with this semester I'm going to look into these things myself. I'm tired of you guys telling me it's too much work. What a bunch of bull**** if it's too much work why are you guys working on it? Move aside for people willing to evolve the project.

 

[Wind Owl]

... And so begins a new era of nonstandardized builds of Brawl+.

 

[Mattnumbers]

He just said he's going to MAKE the codes since they won't, he didn't say it was to implement them in his own build.

And no one ever really played the non-plussery builds anyways back then.

On a side note, jiang do you realize that your sig says "an FAQ"?

 

[Revven]

You guys are a bunch of lazy ****s.

I'm sorry, but I had to say it.

Is that the only excuse you guys have? Is that what everything boils down to? When I'm done with this semester I'm going to look into these things myself. I'm tired of you guys telling me it's too much work. What a bunch of bull**** if it's too much work why are you guys working on it? Move aside for people willing to evolve the project.

Huge change = changes the game a lot compared to what's set out to be done.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

He just said he's going to MAKE the codes since they won't, he didn't say it was to implement them in his own build.

And no one ever really played the non-plussery builds anyways back then.

On a side note, jiang do you realize that your sig says "an FAQ"?

i don't know how to code anything, but i could manually change the angles on all the moves, maybe just for the characters i play. and probably show my build to some of the cali players out here.

and yes, it's "an faq" because I say ef a q and not "faq". and the article an goes before words that start with a vowel sound.

so faq you

 

[Rikana]

so faq you

lol.

Spoiler

.

 

[Alphatron]

Big changes mean we don't have a stable set now. After Pound 4, Veril made it clear to players how changes were going to be conducted from now on. It may have been better for the overall game if 6.0 still wasn't out yet and things like Plum's airdodge during tumble idea could be implemented. But that's not really possible. After Veril's gone through the trouble of trying to fix relations with those who dropped brawl+ in the past due to the changes, it would just make most of them stop taking this game seriously at this point.

We need to stabilize.

so faq you

That's pretty bad Jiang...

Zelda's Dtilt never had the Sakurai angle. It has a couple different parts but the tiltlock/setup one sends at 270°.

We're still not sure what we're doing with it.

I thought it tripped/locked at low percent and then popped them up into the air later on.

 

[VietGeek]

**** english and **** this game

there i had to say it

we should make sakurai angles more potent so more ppl can hold up thinking they're doing good di on a horizontal move and all of the sudden you're already dead

<_<

>_>

nah seriously sakurai angle moves are a blessing for combos except that it also is one of the many factors screwing the part where the foe dies

 

[Wind Owl]

I thought it tripped/locked at low percent and then popped them up into the air later on.

That's an effect of the knockback along with a set tripping percentage, which is a separate attribute.

 

[CountKaiser]

The sakurai angle sends at a gradually increasing angle, and I believe it tops out at anywhere between 40 and 50 degrees.

Removing the sakurai angle is a bit vague, though. Do you want all of them removed, the ones on KO moves removed, or what?

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

The sakurai angle sends at a gradually increasing angle, and I believe it tops out at anywhere between 40 and 50 degrees.

Removing the sakurai angle is a bit vague, though. Do you want all of them removed, the ones on KO moves removed, or what?

On moves intended for gimping and finishing people off. Things like turnips, arrows, fsmashes, etc. Moves that are supposed to gimp people, but end up helping them. I don't think it'd need to be changed for moves that are used for combos. It actually wouldn't be that much work, really.

And it wouldn't change the game all that much since people would be expecting to DI and actually be PUNISHED for bad DI for once.

 

[Wind Owl]

If you knew what you were doing, you could simply use a hex editor to find them all and convert them to 45° or whatever.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

If you knew what you were doing, you could simply use a hex editor to find them all and convert them to 45° or whatever.

I don't think we want to do that, especially not for moves intended to start combo strings. It is an option to consider, though. However, moves that are powerful which are very difficult to combo into otherwise (long start up, slow end), should get this change, I think. It's a safety net for people who don't know how to DI, and I really think it should just removed.

 

[BEES]

I still have to complain about the friction. Why are we keeping it this way? It's terrible. It's too low. This shouldn't be smash bros on ice.

 

[Veril]

Love it when people respond as though they were me!

I actually agree with Jiang to an extent here. Taking a closer look at moves with the Sakurai angle isn't a bad idea and removing this for moves he brought up would be a very slight change, and the rationale behind it makes a lot of sense. On the other hand it would have to be very specific about where this was done. Ex. Peach's turnips are not getting buffed, she's **** as it is.

moves that are powerful which are very difficult to combo into otherwise (long start up, slow end), should get this change, I think. It's a safety net for people who don't know how to DI, and I really think it should just removed.

This is a very reasonable suggestion.

You guys are a bunch of lazy ****s.

excuse me...

I will end you.

 

[CountKaiser]

If you need help altering some of these moves to a better angle, I can certainly assist.

 

[Veril]

If you need help altering some of these moves to a better angle, I can certainly assist.

I'm going to take you up on that.

Project M is removing all of them ~_^

Just an fyi to everyone. In the future, if you make a post that isn't actually about B+, and only references P:M, I will be infracting you. There's a project melee thread for that sort of thing.

 

[Wind Owl]

Noted, but on what grounds?

 

[Veril]

there's a separate thread for P:M.

Its one thing to compare the two or ask if something from P:M is being incorporated into B+. That at least relates to 6.0. Its another to post purely about a different game.


anyway...

The sakurai angle is all over the place. Sakurai just did several silly things that I will never understand with Brawl. This is just one of them I guess. That and grab-releases and standing infinites and Metaknight... and tripping. I really wonder sometimes what the actual development team was thinking with DDD's infinite CG. Were they like, man DK is so ****, he has to have a 100:0 matchup against 1 move? O.o

 

[matt4300]

there's a separate thread for P:M.

Its one thing to compare the two or ask if something from P:M is being incorporated into B+. That at least relates to 6.0. Its another to post purely about a different game.


anyway...

The sakurai angle is all over the place. Sakurai just did several silly things that I will never understand with Brawl. This is just one of them I guess. That and grab-releases and standing infinites and Metaknight... and tripping. I really wonder sometimes what the actual development team was thinking with DDD's infinite CG. Were they like, man DK is so ****, he has to have a 100:0 matchup against 1 move? O.o

Crap, and I left links fair with the sakurai angle in the pac i gave ya...