Brawl will have backwards progression (which is a bad thing)

[LavisFiend]

Someone could be typing for you >_>

It's not like we are face-to-face right now.

OHHHH SNAP! >.O

but but, another stereotype is that we screw our cousins and sisters, and I don't have sisters...but I do have cousins... HOT cousins. :3

....I DID NOT HAVE SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH MY COUSIN, DON'T JUDGE ME! >.> <.<

....and I most certainly am not part of a secret social organization where we wear all white and have close minded beliefs of colored people, (lol at politically correct term for KKK.)

I DIGRESS. >.O

 

[Corigames]

OHHHH SNAP! >.O

but but, another stereotype is that we screw our cousins and sisters, and I don't have sisters...but I do have cousins... HOT cousins. :3

....I DID NOT HAVE SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH MY COUSIN, DON'T JUDGE ME! >.> <.<

....and I most certainly am not part of a secret social organization where we wear all white and have close minded beliefs of colored people, (lol at politically correct term for KKK.)

I DIGRESS. >.O

I know what you mean. I'm from WV and everyone expects that I'm married to my sister, participate in bestiality, lived on a farm or mine town, etc. I have expectations about me that people just recognize when they hear where I'm from. It's dumb, because neither me, nor any people I know from there, are like that at all.

 

[Legend Blade]

Where is the fun and stratagy of picking from 3 charicters and using the same combos every else who plays uses, trying to dodge the same combos everyone who uses your foe uses. You even eliminate lots of fun courses.

Brawl lets you choose one that fits your style, come up with a basic gameplay stratagy that fairly customizeable instead of a pre-set package. You also have to figure out the style of your foe, maybe make minor adjustments to counter it, ect.

So in short rather than choosing between Fox, Falco and Shiek ( I still don't believe in tiers ) and their handful of combos, you have more control over your own fate.

 

[Corigames]

Brawl lets you choose one that fits your style, come up with a basic gameplay stratagy that fairly customizeable instead of a pre-set package. You also have to figure out the style of your foe, maybe make minor adjustments to counter it, ect.

You know, I would completely agree with you if you were talking about melee. That is the same EXACT thing I said in transition. I think playing Brawl is limiting, and that there really isn't much customization when it comes to character play style, at least, not as much as I'm use to. It's like going to a Magic: The Gathering tournament where you are only allowed to use a pre-constructed deck straight from the shop as your arsenal. No one wants that. They like personalized play styles. they want to be known for THEIR strengths, not luck or character abilities.

That's how I see it.

 

[Red Exodus]

Where is the fun and stratagy of picking from 3 charicters and using the same combos every else who plays uses, trying to dodge the same combos everyone who uses your foe uses. You even eliminate lots of fun courses.

Brawl lets you choose one that fits your style, come up with a basic gameplay stratagy that fairly customizeable instead of a pre-set package. You also have to figure out the style of your foe, maybe make minor adjustments to counter it, ect.

So in short rather than choosing between Fox, Falco and Shiek ( I still don't believe in tiers ) and their handful of combos, you have more control over your own fate.

The only people that whored out to tiers are the ones that would give anything to win. There are people who generally liked top tier characters like me for instance, the first character I picked and mained was Fox in 02 when I got my Gamecube [I've more recently moved onto Ganon and Samus], there was no tier list back then so I mained him because I just liked the way he felt.

Strategy is Melee was better because the arsenal of moves was so much wider and the possibilities were endless. Only mediocre players use the same 'combos', sure there's Ken combo, Pillaring and the like but you've got to do more than that if you hope to win a match against a good player.

Right now Brawl is about the survival of the campiest and the survival of the recoveries, only time will tell if the game can go beyond that.

 

[Blitzmidfielder]

Where is the fun and stratagy of picking from 3 charicters and using the same combos every else who plays uses, trying to dodge the same combos everyone who uses your foe uses. You even eliminate lots of fun courses.

Brawl lets you choose one that fits your style, come up with a basic gameplay stratagy that fairly customizeable instead of a pre-set package. You also have to figure out the style of your foe, maybe make minor adjustments to counter it, ect.

So in short rather than choosing between Fox, Falco and Shiek ( I still don't believe in tiers ) and their handful of combos, you have more control over your own fate.

Yeah, now you can choose Pit, Meta Knight, and Ike.

 

[MookieRah]

Where is the fun and stratagy of picking from 3 charicters and using the same combos every else who plays uses, trying to dodge the same combos everyone who uses your foe uses. You even eliminate lots of fun courses.

Yeah, so I'm sure everyone goes for the same "combos." *Sigh* a lot of people use the same SET-UPS, not combos. There are very very few set combos in the game, and MOST of the best combos are entirely free-formed and cannot be replicated unless the opponents inputs are exactly the same.

Also, stop trying to say we eliminate fun. Last I checked, competitive players play this game consistently and travel to play it with others. We think it's so fun to spend money on it and go all over the place. I'd say that is a sufficient argument to say that competitive players have MORE fun with the game than the casual players that pull the game out every now and then on a get together. Don't try to bring fun into the equation as something only the casual players experience. It's a complete and total farce.

Yeah, now you can choose Pit, Meta Knight, and Ike.

Ike... nah, he isn't nearly that good. Pit, Meta, and ROB is more like it.

 

[HyperTheHedgehog]

So if brawl does have this recession, are you all switching back to melee?

 

[LoVer]

I agree with this guy:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4238370&posted=1#post4238370

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

I agree with this guy:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4238370&posted=1#post4238370

That guy has no idea what he's talking about.

 

[Sonic XD]

What kind of crap is gimpy posting on smashboards? If he doesnt like brawl, then he should play melee. Nobody cares if he wants to whine about brawl.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

What kind of crap is gimpy posting on smashboards? If he doesnt like brawl, then he should play melee. Nobody cares if he wants to whine about brawl.

I don't see how this is crap or whining. Care to elaborate?

 

[Fletch]

Where is the fun and stratagy of picking from 3 charicters and using the same combos every else who plays uses, trying to dodge the same combos everyone who uses your foe uses. You even eliminate lots of fun courses.

Brawl lets you choose one that fits your style, come up with a basic gameplay stratagy that fairly customizeable instead of a pre-set package. You also have to figure out the style of your foe, maybe make minor adjustments to counter it, ect.

So in short rather than choosing between Fox, Falco and Shiek ( I still don't believe in tiers ) and their handful of combos, you have more control over your own fate.

The fact that you don't believe in tiers discredits your entire post. Learn something about fighting games if you are going to try to contribute to this topic.

 

[Rorus Raz]

I don't see how this is crap or whining. Care to elaborate?

This topic has been worn to the bone. At this point, everyone has made up their mind on Brawl and won't budge from their respective positions.

Gimpy just MADE a thread on Sakurai's views on competition, and now this thread. They lead to the same discussion that's been brought up in several other threads by people like Scar. I don't have a problem with this viewpoint, but it's getting incredibly annoying seeing a bunch of threads on what is essentially the same topic.

Things don't look rosy for Brawl, but I've spent nearly a year reading Dojo updates and hyping myself for boarding the competitive train I missed with Melee. I'm certainly going to stick with Brawl for longer than a month before dismissing it. If things do continue to progress in a backwards manner...well, it'll be a shame and we'll move on.

But another topic on Brawl's competitive potential is beyond beating the dead horse. We've beat the thing into giblets, and we glued the pieces back together to beat it some more. I'm not saying Gimpy is wrong, but this is well-tread ground by now.

It's walking in circles and people need to stop arguing and decide if they're going to stick with Brawl or decide it's not worth the time investment.

 

[poorboy93]

LIE. Using it as a stall tactic was banned, but not for recovery reasons.

Regarding to that... read the post before posting, I dont need to be reminded for 1 mistake..... I even said early

and thanks for the corrections,

Except when they are wrong to begin with >_>

But if there wrong? How in the world do we come up with stereotypes if its not believable?

 

[xyouxarexuglyx2]

What kind of crap is gimpy posting on smashboards? If he doesnt like brawl, then he should play melee. Nobody cares if he wants to whine about brawl.

Dude, seriously. Shut the **** up. This "go back to Melee" crap is one of the dumbest things ever. The community is almost entirely hung up on Brawl right now. If going back to Melee was a plausible choice, I would not even have gotten Brawl. If someone prefers Melee and wants to play that, who's going to play with them? Nobody. So shut the **** up with your stupid lines that have been regurgitated over and over thousands of times since the moment that players started raking in bad news from E for All.

 

[Metallic_Igloo]

I don't think anybody is whining merely saying what others might be afraid to say, for the purpose of letting others know that they're not alone in what they think.

But on the topic, I feel like I may have less to contribute, because in Melee, I never got into advanced techs. But while I wasn't an advance, tournament player, I still was good against other friends who were the same in not being advanced. We still had fun, and we did play on every stage, nearly, and we used items, all items, and we still had fun. So maybe Brawl won't be full of advanced techs, but that doesn't mean the game won't be fun, or maybe I'm wrong and the people I'm talking to only love Smash because they can easily take advantage of Physics, tear the game apart to us it to get money and reduce the playing field to only those who have enough time on their hands to really dissect the game looking for anything they think may ruin their chance of winning and throwing it out of their way because someone else tells them it's not fair. But I have played in two Melee tournaments, and I did just fine against those who did advanced techs. So just play the game, maybe if you all smother the game while begging for advanced techs because for some reason they can't win, maybe that smothering will shorten the games lifespan.

So try things differently and approach it like it's the first Smash game. Make it fun, play it like it's fun. Maybe playing with items will become the common thing to do. It can be quite fun. I practically used throwing items as one of my moves in Melee, and I got really good: I even froze an invisible opponent that I had just hit of the edge once. And I could throw a beam sword across the Temple stage and hit someone.
Or here's what I really think people may be up to: maybe we should play without items but in free-for-alls. In free-for-alls you never really have time to even worry about ubercomboing, or advanced techs. Let's actually use all four character spots! Maybe it will still be fun for people, but they won't be saying it's unfair because there's no randomness to it, at least not like with items.
Please give Brawl a chance, even if it can only be the best party game in the world. Just have fun and quit worrying about whether or not you'll get really good advanced techs, or whether or not it will stay competitive.

Brawl will be competitive if you let it be competitive.

Brawl will live if you let it live.

 

[poorboy93]

Ike... nah, he isn't nearly that good. Pit, Meta, and ROB is more like it.

He isnt that good, but he got teh fire.... people cater to Ike cause hes easy to use...


and I thought.. and what your post shoulda been is

Ike... nah, he isn't nearly that good. Pit, Meta, and TL is more like it.

 

[Shai Hulud]

The biggest point I am trying to make is that no matter what it is you do, no matter what you look like, or what you wear, you will fit in a stereotype.

There is no point in worrying about it, because everybody fits into a stereotype.

For example, I like country music, I live in the boonies, I have a southern slur, but the common stereotype is that I am dumb as dirt and can't speak properly because I am redneck.

Needless to say, that is not true. =P

But LavisFiend, you clearly are dumb as dirt.

 

[Dark Nemesis]

Nice, and I agree with you.
Nut me not like wall of text. e.e

 

[Hallowed Storm]

Sadly, I have to agree with Gimpy on most of what he said.
I like Brawl, and I will continue to play it, but I've already noticed these effects, and things aren't looking that great.

 

[derpinsmash]

CPU's. Don't. DI.




CPU's. Don't. DI!!!!!!!!!

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa

(and if it was just an infinite neutral A combo on someone against a wall ... what's the fun in that?)

actually if you set them to walk (and i think to run) then they do. I usually set them to attack if im trying to find out if a combo works though just because it gives the cpu an added escape option (like hitting me lol)

 

[xyouxarexuglyx2]

Sadly, I have to agree with Gimpy on most of what he said.
I like Brawl, and I will continue to play it, but I've already noticed these effects, and things aren't looking that great.

Hm. It's a little different for me. I despise Brawl, but I will continue to play it, but I've already noticed these effects, and things aren't looking that great.

 

[S0crat3s]

Mister EAD says "BS!"

What's so bad about the disappearance of gimp kills? So you SHOULD be able to kill an opponent at 20%? I think the evolution of a stronger defensive metagame is a good thing for Brawl...Besides, in fencing, do you see people scoring crazy combos? *brick*

I think air game is much more pronounced than that of Melee, and that if you have experimented as "thoroughly" with this game as you claim to, you'd understand that Brawl's progression won't move forward, or backward, or even down, but up...

 

[DD151]

Besides, in fencing, do you see people scoring crazy combos? *brick*

i'm not going to comment further on how poor that analogy is.

 

[HyperTheHedgehog]

Hm. It's a little different for me. I despise Brawl, but I will continue to play it, but I've already noticed these effects, and things aren't looking that great.

Little different for me too. I love Brawl, have not noticed these effects, and will continue to play it and have fun while you all cut your wrists.

 

[Cinatas]

Maybe the use of certain items will decrease some of the camping, such as dragon pieces, it would give them something to fight over, there maybe other examples using other items but idk, i haven't put allot of thought into this yet

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Little different for me too. I love Brawl, have not noticed these effects, and will continue to play it and have fun while you all cut your wrists.

Can people like you please STFU with all this **** about us "whining" "being emo" "cutting ourselves" or whatever the hell you pull out of your *** at the moment, becasue it's not ****ing true.

GTFO people that have no clue what they're talking about.

 

[hotgarbage]

Thanks for the input Gimpy. I haven't played nearly as much as others, but I'm beginning to feel the same way unfortunately. Approaching is just so freaking hard; it's advantageous to be on the defense :/.

And I gotta say, I can't believe how many utterly stupid posts this thread has. I'm really at a loss for words here.

 

[Kirby Superstar]

I have the best solution in the world. This will rock your world. The answer is a simple 5 characters long, and you will all agree...

NoR4U

Spread the word!

 

[Johnknight1]

While I think MookieRah and Gimpyfish made good points, I must disagree. Each smash game is getting more defensive, and less offensive. This was obvious with Melee in that we now had sidestep dodging, airdodging, and other techniques. In smash 64, all we had were attacks to counter, our recoveries, edge hogging, edge guarding, and a small, easy to break bubble shield. In Brawl, we have everything from the previous two smash games, plus nerfed grabs (can't chain or combo much with them), perfect shielding, it's easier to shield grab, multiple air dodging, auto-sweet spotting edges, edge hugging, and so forth. We got TONS OF DEFENSE!

The problem is...we don't know the full game yet. We only know the game AS OF NOW! We've dug in, but we haven't struck our gold yet. With Melee, we found wavedashing. And L-cancelling. And then everything else. We've found tons of small jackpots, but we're DEFINITELY MISSING SOMETHING BIG! I can seriously feel it. Whatever we're missing is really, really, big. Like almost as big of a discovery as wavedashing (though L-cancelling was a better discovery! >_<). I think right now we have to focus getting all around better. I have a pretty good Toon Link right about now. I need, and can get better, offensively, defensively, and with range, grab timing, and my recovery. All of us basically still need to work on those areas. We need to keep improving our game, and keeping our eyes open. And let us not forget the advanced damage system mechanism.

But all in all, I think Brawl was a game made to be a competitive game for 3 or 4 years as the basis of the smash community, not 7. Not to say it isn't deep, it's just diffrent from Melee and smash 64. I think while those two games' competitve scene was DI and combo orientated, Brawl is diffrent. It is simply the basic defenese vs. offense, defense vs. defense, offense vs. offense, air vs. land, land vs. laand, air vs. air, and the combination of the such put into one, along with technical attacks, some advanaced teechniques, and above all, strategy (strategies). The advanced competitve scene gameplay is definitely a much diffrent one, and we still gotta dig around for what exactly it is. Still, good things are found it time, for those who are patient enough to wait, and wait, and wait, and wait. With Melee, we didn't find really anything until 2003. With Brawl, we're just the opposite, but we're not finding what we need to find, and a lot of it is making what we're trying to stop (defense beats all) game play. >_>

 

[HyperTheHedgehog]

Can people like you please STFU with all this **** about us "whining" "being emo" "cutting ourselves" or whatever the hell you pull out of your *** at the moment, becasue it's not ****ing true.

GTFO people that have no clue what they're talking about.

Whoa. Internet is serious biznezz

 

[Demon Kirby]

Can people like you please STFU with all this **** about us "whining" "being emo" "cutting ourselves" or whatever the hell you pull out of your *** at the moment, becasue it's not ****ing true.

GTFO people that have no clue what they're talking about.

Swearing like that makes you look like an idiot and has no place in an argument. Whoever told you otherwise is also an idiot.

 

[Gonzoyo]

While I think MookieRah and Gimpyfish made good points, I must disagree. Each smash game is getting more defensive, and less offensive. This was obvious with Melee in that we now had sidestep dodging, airdodging, and other techniques. In smash 64, all we had were attacks to counter, our recoveries, edge hogging, edge guarding, and a small, easy to break bubble shield. In Brawl, we have everything from the previous two smash games, plus nerfed grabs (can't chain or combo much with them), perfect shielding, it's easier to shield grab, multiple air dodging, auto-sweet spotting edges, edge hugging, and so forth. We got TONS OF DEFENSE!

The problem is...we don't know the full game yet. We only know the game AS OF NOW! We've dug in, but we haven't struck our gold yet. With Melee, we found wavedashing. And L-cancelling. And then everything else. We've found tons of small jackpots, but we're DEFINITELY MISSING SOMETHING BIG! I can seriously feel it. Whatever we're missing is really, really, big. Like almost as big of a discovery as wavedashing (though L-cancelling was a better discovery! >_<). I think right now we have to focus getting all around better. I have a pretty good Toon Link right about now. I need, and can get better, offensively, defensively, and with range, grab timing, and my recovery. All of us basically still need to work on those areas. We need to keep improving our game, and keeping our eyes open. And let us not forget the advanced damage system mechanism.

But all in all, I think Brawl was a game made to be a competitive game for 3 or 4 years as the basis of the smash community, not 7. Not to say it isn't deep, it's just diffrent from Melee and smash 64. I think while those two games' competitve scene was DI and combo orientated, Brawl is diffrent. It is simply the basic defenese vs. offense, defense vs. defense, offense vs. offense, air vs. land, land vs. laand, air vs. air, and the combination of the such put into one, along with technical attacks, some advanaced teechniques, and above all, strategy (strategies). The advanced competitve scene gameplay is definitely a much diffrent one, and we still gotta dig around for what exactly it is. Still, good things are found it time, for those who are patient enough to wait, and wait, and wait, and wait. With Melee, we didn't find really anything until 2003. With Brawl, we're just the opposite, but we're not finding what we need to find, and a lot of it is making what we're trying to stop (defense beats all) game play. >_>

Good post.

And wow, this thread is a cesspool of thought. A lot of the posts in here are pretty ridiculous.

At any rate, I feel like Sakurai's a big admirer of a Ju-Jitsu fighting style, e.g. relying on a strong defense to allow you time to wait for holes in your opponent's approach and utilize their mistakes and misplaced momentum against them. Whether he's taken this concept too far and create a campfest for all time remains to be seen. IMO, we really need to stop judging this game until it at least hits its 6 month anniversary. It isn't even a month old in North America.

 

[Lavos]

Swearing like that makes you look like an idiot and has no place in an argument. Whoever told you otherwise is also an idiot.

XD

You call this arguing?

Little different for me too. I love Brawl, have not noticed these effects, and will continue to play it and have fun while you all cut your wrists.

What kind of crap is gimpy posting on smashboards? If he doesnt like brawl, then he should play melee. Nobody cares if he wants to whine about brawl.

Where did you learn to argue? These guys are just throwing annoying insults at anyone who is negative toward Brawl.

LOL If you're not happy with every aspect of the game, you're obviously a whiny emo kid who shouldn't be on smashboards! Great logic right there! It's a ridiculously annoying mentality. I don't blame him for swearing.

 

[Gonzoyo]

And only sissies are afraid of swearing.

 

[HyperTheHedgehog]

XD

You call this arguing?





Where did you learn to argue? These guys are just throwing annoying insults at anyone who is negative toward Brawl.

LOL If you're not happy with every aspect of the game, you're obviously a whiny emo kid who shouldn't be on smashboards! Great logic right there! It's a ridiculously annoying mentality. I don't blame him for swearing.

Who's arguing here? Seems like you can't make a joke around these parts w/o people tackling you for it.

 

[Zankoku]

Who's arguing here? Seems like you can't make a joke around these parts w/o people tackling you for it.

Admit it. You made that "joke" just to see how many people you could offend.

 

[Lavos]

Who's arguing here? Seems like you can't make a joke around these parts w/o people tackling you for it.

I didn't quote you...

 

[HyperTheHedgehog]

Admit it. You made that "joke" just to see how many people you could offend.

No, not really.

I didn't quote you...

http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=4240237&postcount=275