@ Brawl +

[Sky`]

raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar

 

[DtJ Hilt]

I always love reading your threads ^.^
You've said everything I've been trying to get through the brawl+ kids that wont leave me alone.

I'm gonna link them all to this thread from now on <3

 

[Falconv1.0]

Oh I can smell the unsuccessful trolls already.

Good **** Sky. ^_^

 

[Evertras]

I didn't even know Brawl+ existed. I did some research after reading this post. All I can say is... well... I like your post.

 

[Tristan_win]

Sky I'm tempted to just quote your whole post and write

" QFT
10characters "

That's exactly how I've been looking at brawl+ for a while now but honestly how many years do you think normal brawl has left, 2-3 years? That's what I'm giving it before people move on so if brawl+ did go main stream for the community I would happily join them just so I could continue playing even though it's a doomed existences

I would only join them if it did go main stream.

 

[BentoBox]

Fail.

I don't even play Brawl+ myself but I simply cannot relate to your PoV.

I don't understand why you're created.

You intended to fix the 'errors' and such of Brawl, which is fine and I respect that. But why are you trying to make it into the tournament scene? Like, I understand if you play it for fun and such but... Now people are starting to talk about Metagames for certain characters, and I've even seen a few Brawl + Tier lists.

Why WOULDN'T they try to make it into the tourney scene. It is my understanding that the whole point behind the initiation of the project was to create a deeper, more balanced and competitive game. Why would they go through all of that effort if they had in mind to limit its range to casual play? Why wouldn't they discuss metagame? Because vBrawl exists and should remain everybody's focus?

Sure, I see your attractive Melee Esque changes, and Yeah, I agree that it's loads of fun, but by trying to transition the whole Brawl community to Brawl +... Well sir, or madam, that's impossible.

Nobody forced anyone into taking part in the B+ community. And how is it so far fetched of an idea to actively play both games? People seem to manage Melee and Brawl just fine.

First of all, everybody would have to have a modded Wii, and while it's not hard to mod, it's something that not everybody is capable/going to do. Some are lazy, some are just reluctant of the principle, some don't have the money to afford TP (And if you haven't beaten yet then you haven't really lived yet, =D), yadda yadda yadda. Not only that, but Ladders around the globe would haffta change, as in there wouldn't be any. If Brawl + became the dominate style of game play, Wifi Ladders would mean nothing, as the mainstream would be incapable of playing online. (Is that right? Pretty sure you'd have to update at some point and... I don't think your Wii can play the game online with Brawl +, cause your other buddy might just have regular Brawl.)

You can play Brawl+ on wifi, your opponent simply needs to have it as well. And the current ladders wouldn't have to change; there would simply be a second Ladder for B+. And like I said earlier, nobody's forcing anyone to play it, if you don't have the money to buy a new game (since that's basically what you're doing, though that is just the icing on the wedding cake; gecko is secks), then that's that.

The way I see it, is Brawl has a lot of Crappy things in it. Sure it's more luck based than Brawl +, sure it's this and that, and Brawl + has this and that, but you're missing the point. It was created that way for a reason that we defined. We accept the fact that Brawl has so many misfortunes. Instead of trying to fix them, we play through them, because we know that no game in the history of competitive games has been modified to fit tournament standards. (I'm directing Fighters here. And Brawl/melee aren't fighters, more or less party games, but you get what I'm saying. xD)

We accept the fact that Brawl has so many misfortunes by coming up with a "let's ban X" topic every other week? Some have accepted the game while others haven't. Nobody is in the wrong here. Also, no other competitive fighting game has been designed w/o competitiveness in mind (this is the problem that the B+ community attends to). Brawl is indeed an oddity.

Creating Brawl + has only lead to the downfall of the game in it's entirety. Though I am an advocate of the Melee Revival, I'm not an advocate of letting the game that I currently love Die, due to a coup of Brawl +.

Brawl+ is as much of a threat to Brawl as Melee is. People wishing to play a deeper game will move on. Those that are content with what they have won't. Nothing will prevent the formers from not launching Brawl through homebrew.

What I'm asking, is that the Brawl + community look at Regular brawl with a progressive view, not that of a Social Darwinist. Brawl, though faulty, is what's mainstream right now, it's what's 'competitive' right now, and it's what the brawl community is playing right now. What's so bad about keeping it that way?

When did the B+ ever claim that they wanted to replace vBrawl? You're feeling threatened on groundless assumptions.

 

[shanus]

Sky, your post is completely misleading to the entire community and in no way reflects the goals of Brawl+. You seem to be actively posting on the peach boards with little or no experience behind Brawl+ whatsoever and are quick to judge it because you as you mentioned in the peach thread (and I roughly quote) you "are afraid of change" and "don't want to relearn the in depth stuff".

Honestly, I just don't want to get into another game, like all that depthy, ya dig? xD

We aren't here to replace vBrawl. We are here to make our own competitive game which can be held as its own tournament or as side–events. Note how there are plenty of tournaments with Melee and Brawl. What is wrong with holding a tourney with Brawl and Brawl+. Please stop thinking its exclusively one or the other. I ask that you please take down this post or edit it to reflect what our actual goals are. Because your interpretation is flat out wrong.

You said to not put credentials on you. I didn't. But then called us noobs? I guess me, thecape, kishprime/kishsquared, mookierah, SCOTU, Yeroc, and all of us are not seasoned melee/brawl vets then.

But why is your opinion of what is a competitive game any better than mine?Why should a game we've created not be able to be enjoyed by the public as much as yours has been. Remember this isn't exclusive.

Your post is misleading and I ask you to please respect our game by either requesting this thread to be closed, or to edit your OP with an opinion which more appropriately reflects our goals. This thread only serves as flamebait right now and has no facts behind it, nor do you know much about the brawl+ community whatsoever. Otherwise I feel obligated to report this thread as flamebait due to spreading false opinions on why you want our project to fail.

 

[cAm8ooo]

Bento and Shanus pretty much covered everything i wanted to say.

If you hate brawl+ or just enjoy vbrawl then please continue to enjoy your game but dont try to stop us from enjoying ours.

 

[Ulevo]

I'm...rather disappointed in this Sky. I would verbally abuse your whole opening post, but shanus has already expressed basically everything I would have to say.

You've done nothing but attempt to give Brawl Plus a misleading image and reputation, and on nothing but your own biased and uninformed opinion.

 

[Red-Blue]

I'll keep this short.

Brawl+ is not vBrawl, and vBrawl is not Brawl+.

If you like Brawl. Play Brawl.
If you like Brawl+. Play Brawl+.
If you like both. Play both.
If you don't like Brawl or Brawl+. Play neither.

No one is forcing you to pick one.

 

[Shortline999]

Wow. What a terrible, terrible OP. I really did expect better when I opened this thread.

Brawl+ is fun and competitive. It's balanced. It's entertaining to watch and play. It's flat out good times. A skilled player will enjoy mastering the nuances of an advanced game like Brawl+. A weaker player will enjoy the fast gameplay and increased fun factor.

BRAWL+ IS A FUN GOD**** GAME. I can understand laziness as an excuse to not go ahead and try it out - though it's a poor one. I can't understand any resistance to "newness" or "change," regardless of whether you think Brawl+ is "better" or "worse."

Just try it. Or don't. Your loss. Brawl+ is incredible.

 

[Ulevo]

In all seriousness, this topic should be closed.

I could go through the whole opening post, replace "Brawl+" with "Melee", and we'd have a Melee vs Brawl argument. I do see how this is any will produce any constructive discussion.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

^ OP = original poster not openings post, so except if you think sky is terrible i'd edit it : )

you might just change it to be a little less aggressive too

 

[GHNeko]

K. You got me. I'm taking a bite. This'll be fun.

I don't understand why you're created.

You mean "you've" right? If so, B+ was created because Brawl isnt a good competitive game as it, but has the potential to be. Brawl+ helps to make the game more competitive, balanced, and fair. It removes silly exploits and glitches so that the game is overall more enjoyable.

You intended to fix the 'errors' and such of Brawl, which is fine and I respect that. But why are you trying to make it into the tournament scene? Like, I understand if you play it for fun and such but... Now people are starting to talk about Metagames for certain characters, and I've even seen a few Brawl + Tier lists.

Brawl+ is trying to become a competitively viable version of Brawl. The whole basis behind the project is adding depth, fixing things, and making characters more viable to win tourneys by closing the gaps on the tier list. We aren't asking to replace the tourney scene, but just co-exist with Melee and Brawl as a side-tourney.

People talk about the metagame of Brawl+ characters because Brawl+ is an evolving project, and inorder to help balance character out. You have to talk about them. No?

As for the tier list, there should be none as it is really pointless to make at this time, considering the game and characters are still being tinkered with.

Sure, I see your attractive Melee Esque changes, and Yeah, I agree that it's loads of fun, but by trying to transition the whole Brawl community to Brawl +... Well sir, or madam, that's impossible.

When did anyone credible in the B+ community say we were trying to convert all of the Brawl community to B+? Yea. We are trying to bring more people on board, but only those dissatisfied with Brawl. We ask people to try to see what they think, and let them make their choices, but only if they are well informed. Something that you really arent or at least seems like it.

First of all, everybody would have to have a modded Wii, and while it's not hard to mod, it's something that not everybody is capable/going to do. Some are lazy, some are just reluctant of the principle, some don't have the money to afford TP (And if you haven't beaten yet then you haven't really lived yet, =D), yadda yadda yadda. Not only that, but Ladders around the globe would haffta change, as in there wouldn't be any. If Brawl + became the dominate style of game play, Wifi Ladders would mean nothing, as the mainstream would be incapable of playing online. (Is that right? Pretty sure you'd have to update at some point and... I don't think your Wii can play the game online with Brawl +, cause your other buddy might just have regular Brawl.)

Modding Iwata's Console isnt that hard. Takes 5-7 mins. Safe. Brickfree. Yadda yadda yadda. If you're reluctant, we'll give you the facts. If you're still so, we let you try. We want you to try before coming to a solid opinion. You can show your approval and join or disapproval and leave it along. Just dont insult the project or its people.

The way I see it, is Brawl has a lot of Crappy things in it. Sure it's more luck based than Brawl +, sure it's this and that, and Brawl + has this and that, but you're missing the point. It was created that way for a reason that we defined. We accept the fact that Brawl has so many misfortunes. Instead of trying to fix them, we play through them, because we know that no game in the history of competitive games has been modified to fit tournament standards. (I'm directing Fighters here. And Brawl/melee aren't fighters, more or less party games, but you get what I'm saying. xD)

You tolerate. We dont. What was done to Brawl was done because of the community and thats really not fair at all. So rather than just taking it, we do something about it. No game has been modified to fit tourney standards, but game's have been modified to promote balance and fair play ie SFII. We're trying to create balance. Doing so makes characters tourney viable.

Creating Brawl + has only lead to the downfall of the game in it's entirety. Though I am an advocate of the Melee Revival, I'm not an advocate of letting the game that I currently love Die, due to a coup of Brawl +.

What? A downfall? Really now? I think this is completely farfetched. How is modifying a poor competitive game to be more competitive and fair the downfall of the game, when aspects of the game are being improved upon.

What I'm asking, is that the Brawl + community look at Regular brawl with a progressive view, not that of a Social Darwinist. Brawl, though faulty, is what's mainstream right now, it's what's 'competitive' right now, and it's what the brawl community is playing right now. What's so bad about keeping it that way?

There is nothing bad about keeping it as it is. But ultimately is a personal preference. We look down on Brawl in a competitive aspect. We see its technical faults and we dont like the metagame of Brawl and what it's evolved into. We dont look down on the community, or at least we shouldnt. We're not trying to make Brawl+ replace Brawl. Just coexist.

Opinions, flames, remarks, verbal abuse, welcome. =]

i accidently your face. <3

P.S.
Also Brawl +? The elitist attitude's gotta stop. I play Brawl competitively , not brawl +. Don't flash your credentials at me, telling me that I play a bad game that's luck based, and that I'm a noob because of it. Cause... frankly, if you ask me? I think that the Brawl + community is the epitome of what the Melee community calls "Brawl N00bs". K, now you can flame me. <3

What. What!? That was totally unwarrented. wtf sky. I play Brawl+ competitively, but I still will play both Brawl and Melee, and even 64. I have respect for those games and the players of those games. Ill insult the game and some of its aspects I dont like, but not its players.

Seriously dude. Not cool at all.

Again, these are only my opinions, And I just wanted to hear what everybody has to think about it. =]

If your post wasnt as wrong as it is about the community, you'd probably be getting better opinons.

Tl;dr? Too bad. Read it, I've written longer.

I know right? Good ****, Sky`. At least your other posts. This one, not so much...or at all.

 

[Sky`]

Let's get started. Here it goes.

Fail.

I don't even play Brawl+ myself but I simply cannot relate to your PoV.

First of all Bento, This isn't appreciated. If you don't agree, let me know, but don't tell me that I 'fail'. Opinions aren't fact, they are just that, opinions. So how can something that I believe Fail? That's like saying, 'oh, you believe in god? Fail.' Of course, not to the same magnitude, but offensive none the less.

Why WOULDN'T they try to make it into the tourney scene. It is my understanding that the whole point behind the initiation of the project was to create a deeper, more balanced and competitive game. Why would they go through all of that effort if they had in mind to limit its range to casual play? Why wouldn't they discuss metagame? Because vBrawl exists and should remain everybody's focus?

To create a deeper and more balanced and more competitive game. If they wanted that, then why didn't they just play a game that had the depth that they required? I understand that some of the characters in brawl are hard to play a game without, (<3 Rob.) but what I fail to understand is why would somebody force competivity into a game? It just seems counter productive if you ask me. And that's just what this thread is about, what I think. You don't have to agree, right? I believe that vBrawl (Dunno what that stands for, but I'm assuming that it means the normal version of Brawl.) should be the main focus, simply because that's what is main stream right now. We're all beset on the idea that Brawl is complete garbage, and that Brawl + is everything that it needs to be this Great game but... Brawl is a great game already. Why try to change something that isn't horrible to begin with?

Nobody forced anyone into taking part in the B+ community. And how is it so far fetched of an idea to actively play both games? People seem to manage Melee and Brawl just fine.

People seem to manage to play Melee and Brawl just fine. Playing the games, and subsisting in the communities is a whole different story. It's no secret that the Brawl community as well as the Melee community don't get along with each other. The slanderous comments from both sides grow tiresome, but they still exist, regardless as to how much you wanna ignore it. Brawl+ is going to be another community that grows discontent amongst the Brawl and Melee community. They aren't immune to corruption. And honestly? I've been in the Melee scene since 04, and personally, as an advocate of Melee, Brawl + just engraves the opinion that brawl is a horrible game. I mean, think about it. We had to Mess with the creation of the game to make it 'acceptable'. Haha, that makes me laugh. xD

You can play Brawl+ on wifi, your opponent simply needs to have it as well. And the current ladders wouldn't have to change; there would simply be a second Ladder for B+. And like I said earlier, nobody's forcing anyone to play it, if you don't have the money to buy a new game (since that's basically what you're doing, though that is just the icing on the wedding cake; gecko is secks), then that's that.

Mmkay. valid point. =] I didn't know that Brawl + could be played if both had Brawl +. But would there ever be a conflict of Codes? Like if they didn't have all the codes, or the same codes as the opponent, would there be any conflicts in gameplay?

We accept the fact that Brawl has so many misfortunes by coming up with a "let's ban X" topic every other week? Some have accepted the game while others haven't. Nobody is in the wrong here. Also, no other competitive fighting game has been designed w/o competitiveness in mind (this is the problem that the B+ community attends to). Brawl is indeed an oddity.

Brawl, first of all, isn't a fighter. more of an Action Adventure game, haha. Secondly, I really don't think that the Creation of Melee was supposed to be like it is now. They just kinda left that game open for all of this creativity and depth, that we as a community exploited. Do you really think that Sakurai purposefully closed the depth of Brawl? Seems logical, yeah. =] But I think that with what we've been finding out thus far, we're breaking the walls of the 'limits' of Brawl. I say, give it a bit moar time. =]

Brawl+ is as much of a threat to Brawl as Melee is. People wishing to play a deeper game will move on. Those that are content with what they have won't. Nothing will prevent the formers from not launching Brawl through homebrew.

Here's what I don't get. You say, 'deeper game'. I recently had a debate with a melee Vet about the definition of a 'deeper game'. What is your definition of a 'deeper game'? Brawl in it's mental aspects seem to be pretty deep to me. Take that with what you will.

When did the B+ ever claim that they wanted to replace vBrawl? You're feeling threatened on groundless assumptions.

I feel threatened on the base principles of the goal of any rising community. Do you really not think that the B + community wouldn't love to see B + on the main stream instead of vBrawl? I'm not saying that they are plotting to TAKE OVAR, But I am saying that with that subtle goal in mind, elitism in minds starts to breed, and the advance of this community will take place. =/ Every community does it. Melee is reviving, in the nor-cal smash community, we are now putting melee with brawl, and some tournaments now only strictly run Melee. It's a little sad, cause i'm not that good in Melee, ya dig? But that's besides the point. I do feel that Brawl + will make a rise. If it does, I think I'll jump on board, But I'm just sick of everybody trying to get me to convert, and calling me a noob because I don't **** every time I hear it. That's mainly where the frustration of the OP is coming from.


Naaao on to Shanus. =3

Sky, your post is completely misleading to the entire community and in no way reflects the goals of Brawl+. You seem to be actively posting on the peach boards with little or no experience behind Brawl+ whatsoever and are quick to judge it because you as you mentioned in the peach thread (and I roughly quote) you "are afraid of change" and "don't want to relearn the in depth stuff".

I do know about the Brawl + community, as well as the game itself, but what's stopping me from having my own opinions? I'm not quick to judge, I've been playing for a couple months, in So-cal with Oki sometimes. =] I main Jiggs, for no reason.

We aren't here to replace vBrawl. We are here to make our own competitive game which can be held as its own tournament or as side–events. Note how there are plenty of tournaments with Melee and Brawl. What is wrong with holding a tourney with Brawl and Brawl+. Please stop thinking its exclusively one or the other. I ask that you please take down this post or edit it to reflect what our actual goals are. Because your interpretation is flat out wrong.

I'll not take down my opinion, and I won't rectify anything because you think that I'm wrong. I didn't state it fact, I clearly said this was my opinion. If you don't like it, Disagree. If you do, then horray!

You said to not put credentials on you. I didn't. But then called us noobs? I guess me, thecape, kishprime/kishsquared, mookierah, SCOTU, Yeroc, and all of us are not seasoned melee/brawl vets then.

Again. Opinions. I've seen many people who main Bad characters in Brawl, switch to Brawl +, and then they throw out these statistics as to what Brawl + gives them, and they compare it to Melee, and it gets me really irritated. =/. There are n00bs in every community, you're not immune to the n00bism, you nor your community, and I'm not immune either.

But why is your opinion of what is a competitive game any better than mine?Why should a game we've created not be able to be enjoyed by the public as much as yours has been. Remember this isn't exclusive.

Very valid point. I just feel that if you have to go and change a game to make it more competitive, then you should just get rid of the game in a whole.
as in, If Brawl + becomes Mainstream? That will be the end of Brawl in it's entirety. People will start saying, "Well F this, i'm going to Melee. Sick of all these changes to Brawl." If we allow Brawl + to rise to the top of the occasion, then we're saying, "Well, if you don't like how a game is played, be sure to Change it, make a community, and then maybe you can become the mainstream of a community!" Advocating this switch will just show that Games that aren't to ones standard can be changed at the flick of a wrist.

Your post is misleading and I ask you to please respect our game by either requesting this thread to be closed, or to edit your OP with an opinion which more appropriately reflects our goals. This thread only serves as flamebait right now and has no facts behind it, nor do you know much about the brawl+ community whatsoever. Otherwise I feel obligated to report this thread as flamebait due to spreading false opinions on why you want our project to fail.

I am not closing this thread, and you need to chill out. Child, these are my opinions, and nothing more. This isn't flamebait. Clearly, there are people who agree with me, so how does that constitute as flaimbait? I suppose you've already sent in a report. =/ No use debating with somebody who isn't going to listen.

I'm...rather disappointed in this Sky. I would verbally abuse your whole opening post, but shanus has already expressed basically everything I would have to say.

You've done nothing but attempt to give Brawl Plus a misleading image and reputation, and on nothing but your own biased and uninformed opinion.

=/ Sorry you feel that way.

But everybody, listen. Brawl + is still a community right? Listen carefully to this.

Brawl + is not immune to the wretched, insipid, pernicious, and elitist actions and thoughts that all communities have. vBrawl has it, Brawl + has it, Melee has it, Halo has it, all of the games have it. What the OP is trying to really direct, is the people that think that Brawl + is going to revolutionize Brawl, and should be the mainstream game that we all play today. Elitism happens in every community, is this right?

I get very irritated with elitism coming from Brawl+. I mean, just look at the name, Brawl +. Does that name it self not rue the essence of elitism? It's like, "You play brawl? Oh that's cool.. but we sophisticated people play Brawl Plusssss. " The name itself is enough for me to base an opinion on the thoughts of the elitist that come from the community. Will you deny that? And yeah, you're community has elitists, Just like any other community.

tl;dr? You're just like everybody else Brawl +, nothin makes you different, and like all other communities, you've got elitists. And it's those elitists that fueled the OP. There. =D

done. ._.

 

[Sky`]

I know right? Good ****, Sky`. At least your other posts. This one, not so much...or at all.

Haha. I guess I'm just one to be hated with some things that I type. =/

I'm just really sick of the elitists of Brawl +, and my opinions are based from them. =/

I gotta go to english. I'll be back latar.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

if this thread was made to express your opinion why did you post it in brawl tactical discussion and not on some blogpost on allisbrawl or something

it's like you wanted people who take regular brawl seriously to see this or something i dunno

sounds kinda fishy to me, child.

 

[Oracle]

I'd just like to say that the only reason other fighters are not modified to make them more competitive is that no other fighters were designed with the goal of eliminating competition.

Everyone who plays brawl + realizes that it will never become tourney standard.

And furthermore, no one is trying to convert the brawl community to brawl +. Yes, chances are most people would like it more than brawl, but some people like the floatiness, lack of hitstun, camping, etc.

 

[|RK|]

You'd be making people pay more... I don't have TP... and I wonder what Nintendo would do if they figured this out? Restrict more?

EDIT: If they know it isn't becoming mainstream, they are setting themselves up for failure. They aren't going to become better. The next Smash game that comes out will put them as the worse off ones. It's like those who saw how differently Brawl played, and just stuck with Melee. If anything, they keep pushing themselves farther from the main competitive scene and they get worse. Yay, I'm good at a game most of the world isn't playing. And because it ISN'T becoming mainstream, that actually makes it have LESS competitive value. After all, since most of the world is playing normal Brawl, I'm pretty sure making it mainstream would give way to Nintendo's wrath.

Verdict: You get worse playing Brawl+ because most others are playing normal Brawl. Nintendo seeing a Brawl + tournament will PROBABLY do one of two things: A) Get Pissed and Legally Attack, B) Fire Sakurai and give the series to a less capable person (he invented Melee too, kids), C) Sakurai will think that he shouldn't make the series and end it there. Thank you, for caring.

 

[Eddie G]

Interesting...

*observes*

 

[shanus]

I feel threatened on the base principles of the goal of any rising community. Do you really not think that the B + community wouldn't love to see B + on the main stream instead of vBrawl? I'm not saying that they are plotting to TAKE OVAR, But I am saying that with that subtle goal in mind, elitism in minds starts to breed, and the advance of this community will take place. =/ Every community does it. Melee is reviving, in the nor-cal smash community, we are now putting melee with brawl, and some tournaments now only strictly run Melee. It's a little sad, cause i'm not that good in Melee, ya dig? But that's besides the point. I do feel that Brawl + will make a rise. If it does, I think I'll jump on board, But I'm just sick of everybody trying to get me to convert, and calling me a noob because I don't **** every time I hear it. That's mainly where the frustration of the OP is coming from.

So you want to flame our community because you don't want to give it a chance to thrive? You don't want a game whose success completely depends on the opinion of the community to let it decide on its own whether to play it? I repeat again. It's not exclusive.

Some people might be very excited with how their chars play in Brawl+ and might be very vocal about it. These "elitists" as you call them are enjoying the game. I'm sorry you feel pressured by them, but I can't do much about it. However, whats stopping me from calling you a Brawl "elitist?" Its the same logic. You fear change in the exact opposite pole that they embrace it. And you refuse to allow it to exist whereas they push for it to exist.

So in effect, aren't you being a little hypocritical in voicing your opinion so strongly against our game when thats exactly what you don't like about the Brawl+ "Elitists"?

Again. Opinions. I've seen many people who main Bad characters in Brawl, switch to Brawl +, and then they throw out these statistics as to what Brawl + gives them, and they compare it to Melee, and it gets me really irritated. =/. There are n00bs in every community, you're not immune to the n00bism, you nor your community, and I'm not immune either.

So why did you trash our community when you clearly state its present in every community. And you blatantly ignored the comment I posted citing many high profile players enjoying it thus far. Things like this are what I asked to have removed from the OP.

Very valid point. I just feel that if you have to go and change a game to make it more competitive, then you should just get rid of the game in a whole.
as in, If Brawl + becomes Mainstream? That will be the end of Brawl in it's entirety. People will start saying, "Well F this, i'm going to Melee. Sick of all these changes to Brawl." If we allow Brawl + to rise to the top of the occasion, then we're saying, "Well, if you don't like how a game is played, be sure to Change it, make a community, and then maybe you can become the mainstream of a community!" Advocating this switch will just show that Games that aren't to ones standard can be changed at the flick of a wrist.

Whats wrong with modifying a game. After all, a lot of communities love to modify it. Do you not know the story of SFII Turbo? If you don't, go look it up.

I am not closing this thread, and you need to chill out. Child, these are my opinions, and nothing more. This isn't flamebait. Clearly, there are people who agree with me, so how does that constitute as flaimbait? I suppose you've already sent in a report. =/ No use debating with somebody who isn't going to listen.

I'm not mad or anything, I just write very concisely and like to point out fallacies in someones argument.

But everybody, listen. Brawl + is still a community right? Listen carefully to this.

Brawl + is not immune to the wretched, insipid, pernicious, and elitist actions and thoughts that all communities have. vBrawl has it, Brawl + has it, Melee has it, Halo has it, all of the games have it. What the OP is trying to really direct, is the people that think that Brawl + is going to revolutionize Brawl, and should be the mainstream game that we all play today. Elitism happens in every community, is this right?

I get very irritated with elitism coming from Brawl+. I mean, just look at the name, Brawl +. Does that name it self not rue the essence of elitism? It's like, "You play brawl? Oh that's cool.. but we sophisticated people play Brawl Plusssss. " The name itself is enough for me to base an opinion on the thoughts of the elitist that come from the community. Will you deny that? And yeah, you're community has elitists, Just like any other community.

tl;dr? You're just like everybody else Brawl +, nothin makes you different, and like all other communities, you've got elitists. And it's those elitists that fueled the OP. There. =D

done. ._.

So, you acted elitist and tried to fight fire with fire? Thats why I asked for you to close this thread. Becuase your opinions on a few select individuals in our community led to distaste in our project. You shouldn't bash our entire community for that reason. That's like me saying I hate Brawl because of your post.

 

[SecretofMana]

Joker: Nobody's making anyone do anything. Brawl+ isn't going to become a tourney standard. Like 1_winged_@ngel said, even the Brawl+ community isn't intent on making it a tournament standard. It's going to remain as its own, seperate game. There will be Brawl tournies and there will be Brawl+ tournies. Plus, not everyone involved in a Brawl+ tourney needs a modded Wii. You just need a few TVs and modded Wiis to have a tourney.

 

[Red-Blue]

You'd be making people pay more... I don't have TP... and I wonder what Nintendo would do if they figured this out? Restrict more?

EDIT: If they know it isn't becoming mainstream, they are setting themselves up for failure. They aren't going to become better. The next Smash game that comes out will put them as the worse off ones. It's like those who saw how differently Brawl played, and just stuck with Melee. If anything, they keep pushing themselves farther from the main competitive scene and they get worse. Yay, I'm good at a game most of the world isn't playing. And because it ISN'T becoming mainstream, that actually makes it have LESS competitive value. After all, since most of the world is playing normal Brawl, I'm pretty sure making it mainstream would give way to Nintendo's wrath.

Verdict: You get worse playing Brawl+ because most others are playing normal Brawl. Nintendo seeing a Brawl + tournament will PROBABLY do one of two things: A) Get Pissed and Legally Attack, B) Fire Sakurai and give the series to a less capable person (he invented Melee too, kids), C) Sakurai will think that he shouldn't make the series and end it there. Thank you, for caring.

LOL! Ahahaha! ****. You won this thread.

 

[shanus]

It's point is to coexist. And Joker, you don't need to buy TP to hack your wii (rent or borrow from a friend). Although you really should buy TP cuz its a good game

Also, don't forget. If you mod your wii, you can play Brawl AND play Brawl+. You choose which you want to play. So if you have 10 set–ups with mods for a 40 man tourney, all of them can play Brawl, Melee & Brawl+. Coexistence is nice.

 

[peeeetah]

this is like saying, "don't play DOTA, it's not what the creators made originally."

trust me, any game that can be modified will be modified. if someone finds out how do it, it will be done. it doesn't matter if the creators "didn't intend" for it to be modified or if they just threw their ****ing world editor in the box for you. there's always gonna be someone out there who says "i can do better" and there's always someone out there who will. and thanks to the internet, once one person knows how to make it better, everyone knows.

that's all that's happening here folks. brawl+ is simply a mod. we shouldn't be getting all worked up over a common occurrence in the gaming community.

 

[Ace55]

I disaprove of this thread.

 

[Zankoku]

I can't see this thread getting anywhere good. Sky, what you're doing is making claims, not stating opinion. Not the same thing.

"Creating Brawl + has only lead to the downfall of the game in it's entirety."
This is a claim.

"If Brawl + became the dominate style of game play, Wifi Ladders would mean nothing, as the mainstream would be incapable of playing online."
This is a claim.

"What I'm asking, is that the Brawl + community look at Regular brawl with a progressive view, not that of a Social Darwinist."
This is a request based on your opinions and views.

If you would like to express your opinions, you may do so without practically attempting to be provocative about it.

 

[Sky`]

Yeah, I guess you're right Ankoku.
Close it. I guess this was more fueled with raged intent rather than sophisticated logical backing.
My apologies if I offended anybody, when I had a chance to cool off, (In calculus. Ugh..) I saw things a little differently.

Closed.

 

[Biinii]

I see you never played doujin fighting games?
They are constantly updating so they are more balanced for competitive play.
Brawl+ is just like this. Thank god you can have one of your favorite games to be balanced and, even you can do it the way you like.

 

[Lemon?]

Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
World of Warcraft
Half Life
Diablo II
Brawl

etc etc...

These games all have 1 thing in common: All of them have been modded by their communities to be better games. Is that such a bad thing?

Ive played the vanilla and the modded versions of these games I listed, and the modded ones were always better. You know why? Because they were made BY the gamers FOR the gamers, not by some greedy *** company or whatever

 

[Copperateme]

I like Brawl + and regular brawl.. Im totally right in the middle, but first thing is first. You guys said that you've created brawl + for your "OWN" fun. Now, people are not going to regular brawl tournaments because they want a "faster paced game".. I totally respect everyone's opinion but i think regular brawl should still be #1. C'mon.. Now everybody has to "hack" their own wii's so they can play brawl +..Whats the point, Now stores that have tournaments are losing more and more money from competitive players because they moved to brawl +. I THINK it should either be melee or brawl, none of this "in the middle" ****. because im not going to hack my wii thinking that im screwed when updates arrive. Ive played brawl + and it was fun!! fun to a degree of playing with your friends.. Not fun enough for tournaments...But do what you want

 

[5ive]

TC is so uninformed it's funny.

 

[SecretofMana]

TC is so uninformed it's funny.

Come on man, no need to be that way after he just apologized. :/

 

[5ive]

Crap. I read the OP then raged. LOL.

My apologies sky.

 

[Niko_K]

Sky you are really ignorant and misinformed.

 

[Sky`]

Yeah, I guess you're right Ankoku.
Close it. I guess this was more fueled with raged intent rather than sophisticated logical backing.
My apologies if I offended anybody, when I had a chance to cool off, (In calculus. Ugh..) I saw things a little differently.

Closed.

Did.. anybody read that?

 

[shanus]

He apologized.

Thanks Sky, I appreciate that you stepped up like that at the end and admitted that the OP is not reflective of our intentions.

Much respect for that.

 

[GHNeko]

I read that.

Much respect Sky. At least you're picking up the pieces. Ill ask a mod to close it or something.

 

[Sky`]

He apologized.

Thanks Sky, I appreciate that you stepped up like that at the end and admitted that the OP is not reflective of our intentions.

Much respect for that.

Yeah, I'm sorry. =/

I should have researched more about the topic, before just spewing ignorant comments like that. =/ I usually know better, but I guess rage got the better of me this time. Now I'm just irritated by myself.

I didn't mean offense to the brawl+ community. I just got enraged when I was called a Noob, and such for not indoctrinating myself with the Brawl + way of playing. And I thought that it was the entire community that felt like putting a big boot in the face of everybody who plays vBrawl was the normal way to go.

Haha... I've never misjudged something so harshly.

 

[BentoBox]

First of all Bento, This isn't appreciated. If you don't agree, let me know, but don't tell me that I 'fail'. Opinions aren't fact, they are just that, opinions. So how can something that I believe Fail? That's like saying, 'oh, you believe in god? Fail.' Of course, not to the same magnitude, but offensive none the less.

You made a thread criticizing a game you have yet to experience yourself, nor knew much about. You were uninformed, spread erroneous comments and took a jab at an entire community simply because you misinterpreted their intentions. That is indeed fail. Do your research next time.

To create a deeper and more balanced and more competitive game. If they wanted that, then why didn't they just play a game that had the depth that they required? I understand that some of the characters in brawl are hard to play a game without, (<3 Rob.) but what I fail to understand is why would somebody force competivity into a game? It just seems counter productive if you ask me. And that's just what this thread is about, what I think. You don't have to agree, right? I believe that vanillaBrawl (Dunno what that stands for, but I'm assuming that it means the normal version of Brawl.) should be the main focus, simply because that's what is main stream right now. We're all beset on the idea that Brawl is complete garbage, and that Brawl + is everything that it needs to be this Great game but... Brawl is a great game already. Why try to change something that isn't horrible to begin with?

Why should they be forced to play another game if they have the tools to shape the one currently in their hands however they want it to be? What if they don't have the money to buy a new game but happened to have a SD card laying around? Do you know many games like Brawl?

Spoiler

No.

Hence asking a community dissatisfied with Melee's successor to look elsewhere is effectively telling them to get lost. There is no other alternative (other than Melee). People "force" competitivity in a game for its lasting appeal, as simple as that. To give players more options, a bit more room for creativity, to minimize over centralization over several facets of the game (camping). The game has been out for a year now and several character's metagames have already started to stale. Do you believe Brawl in its current shallow form will tough another 3 years while remaining as popular as it is now?

Why not improve a game that is average if we have the tools to do so? If you're not willing to relearn a game that is deemed better, that is your problem. You're a tool if you only play a game because it's mainstream.

People seem to manage to play Melee and Brawl just fine. Playing the games, and subsisting in the communities is a whole different story. It's no secret that the Brawl community as well as the Melee community don't get along with each other. The slanderous comments from both sides grow tiresome, but they still exist, regardless as to how much you wanna ignore it. Brawl+ is going to be another community that grows discontent amongst the Brawl and Melee community. They aren't immune to corruption. And honestly? I've been in the Melee scene since 04, and personally, as an advocate of Melee, Brawl + just engraves the opinion that brawl is a horrible game. I mean, think about it. We had to Mess with the creation of the game to make it 'acceptable'. Haha, that makes me laugh. xD

How ironic it is that you should make a thread that does nothing but highlight said discrepancies in the community in an attempt to fight it. Brawl did not stand up to the standards imposed by its predecessor. People were and are still disappointed. You can't change that. They could drop the project and go back to Melee; how would that change anything? Will they perceive Brawl any differently?

The Brawl and Melee communities get along just fine. Most top players still play both.

Mmkay. valid point. =] I didn't know that Brawl + could be played if both had Brawl +. But would there ever be a conflict of Codes? Like if they didn't have all the codes, or the same codes as the opponent, would there be any conflicts in gameplay?

Yes. Hence why they are working on creating one unified standard of play for B+.

Brawl, first of all, isn't a fighter. more of an Action Adventure game, haha. Secondly, I really don't think that the Creation of Melee was supposed to be like it is now. They just kinda left that game open for all of this creativity and depth, that we as a community exploited. Do you really think that Sakurai purposefully closed the depth of Brawl? Seems logical, yeah. =] But I think that with what we've been finding out thus far, we're breaking the walls of the 'limits' of Brawl. I say, give it a bit moar time. =]

Are you really trying to argue logical with Brawl? I don't even need to tell you the many things that are wrong with the game. But just so you know, Brawl initially did have l-cancelling (though it was performed by FFing, iirc); it was found by Gimpyfish & co. when the game was in its alpha stage and up for test at a certain event. It was removed shortly after :D. There's no point denying the fact that Sakurai did dumb down the game. On purpose? Absolutely. He did think Melee was too fast-paced.

Here's what I don't get. You say, 'deeper game'. I recently had a debate with a melee Vet about the definition of a 'deeper game'. What is your definition of a 'deeper game'? Brawl in it's mental aspects seem to be pretty deep to me. Take that with what you will.

Generally, the more options you have, the deeper a game is. Said options are determined by the engine of the game. Brawl is fairly shallow technically so, as you said, the only aspect of the game that hints at a form of depth is the mental~ It's also because of the limiting engine that MK in its current form is so far beyond every other character.

I feel threatened on the base principles of the goal of any rising community. Do you really not think that the B + community wouldn't love to see B + on the main stream instead of vBrawl? I'm not saying that they are plotting to TAKE OVAR, But I am saying that with that subtle goal in mind, elitism in minds starts to breed, and the advance of this community will take place. =/ Every community does it. Melee is reviving, in the nor-cal smash community, we are now putting melee with brawl, and some tournaments now only strictly run Melee. It's a little sad, cause i'm not that good in Melee, ya dig? But that's besides the point. I do feel that Brawl + will make a rise. If it does, I think I'll jump on board, But I'm just sick of everybody trying to get me to convert, and calling me a noob because I don't **** every time I hear it. That's mainly where the frustration of the OP is coming from.

Why should people keep playing a game they do not enjoy?