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Breaking Mario: Execution

ThatGuy

Smash Master
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Jul 26, 2005
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1. Instead of explaining what you believe we shouldn't do, I find it even more helpful to explain what we should be doing too (helps develop good habits). What do you believe we should be doing before tournaments/after?

2. What does auto-pilot mean in your own words? Unless this (It's shutting out your mind from thinking about what you are doing, and engaging in a straightforward method of playing based on your match-up experience, your opponent familiarity, and your play-style.) is it, I'd like to hear it again.

4. May you list more times when you should auto-pilot?
(So far I came up with..:
1. Conserving mental energy (meaning?) What comes to my mind when I read your statement is preventing headaches from occurring regarding thinking too much (although I could be wrong).
2. Consistency meaning execution? or Do mean being able to play unconditionally?
3. Playing persons worse than you
4. Preventing mood swings? (Personal/priority issue here so I don't see your point exactly, feel free to explain, thanks.) ...etc...)

5. I'm understanding what you're getting at, but don't you think you're contradicting yourself in a sense (regarding tuning in/out of auto-pilot)?
1. Week leading up to tournament: don't play 2 days before the tournament. Similar to how cramming for an exam at the last second is not very beneficial, you want to do your learning way before crunch time. Leave a couple days to have your mind relax and be fully fresh before the tournament.

Day of tournament: Wake up early enough. Eat an awesome breakfast. Show up a bit early so you don't have to stress about anything. Drink a coffee or energy drink as you arrive, to get you awake and alert, but not fully hyper when important matches begin (let the caffeine rush pass over the first hour or two).

Post-tournament: While the defeats are fresh, reflect on what went wrong in those matches, and why, so that you can have something to work on in friendlies at future smashfests. A notebook might be useful in case you're a forgetful sort. If you want to enjoy yourself, passively spectate the rest of the tournament, play some desired friendlies. If you got knocked out early, your mind is probably still fresh, so treat the tournament as a large smashfest and try to learn from every match. If you find opponents are sandbagging and auto-piloting because they don't care/don't want to waste energy, challenge people to money matches; you'll either gain competitive experience or free money.

2. Auto-pilot is the subconscious manner of playing in which you do not actively think about which action you are taking. It is habitual, it is automatic, and it is instinctual. It is always present, but the degree of how much you auto-pilot depends on what level you're thinking on:

Low level: Spacing, technical ability, movement, precision
Mid level: Zoning
High level: Prediction, deduction, timing

If you're looking at your own character, trying to be as precise with spacing and technical ability as possible, you're actively thinking low level, you're not auto-piloting at all, and you have no room to think about what your opponent is doing. This is bad. You want to actively be in a high level state of consciousness, allowing your mind to automatically process the low level stuff.

As you can see, it is impossible to be purely on auto-pilot, unless you are a robot, simply because you're always going to be thinking about something.

3. There is no 3.

4.
a) In order to keep your mind fresh, there must be a degree of automation. If you have to re-think everything you do every time, you thought processing will be much slower and inefficient than it could be.

Take a computer for example: it has a hard disk to store data, and a memory to bring said data closer to access it faster (the memory is located closer to the processor, and the memory is made of transistors instead of a disk, so the data access is exponentially faster). If a computer is going to use something often, it puts it into memory (or cache) so that it can be accessed faster and easier. If something is not used for awhile, it is removed from memory so that room for other stuff from the disk can be retrieved.

Your mind works in a similar fashion; you can only think of so much at once. There is no reason to think of a billion options you have if a select few have always worked and you know will work in this instance.

And yes, there is the physical aspect as well. Ever do a lot of really tough math problems that you don't fully understand in one night? Chances are you're a bit mentally fatigued after that. If you're thinking as hard in Smash Bros as you are in complex math problems, then you're playing the game right, but it takes a toll. If you're not tired at all, you probably weren't thinking hard enough.

2. Since auto-pilot is by nature habitual, it is by nature consistent as well. This includes execution and general strategy. It is essentially staying in a mid-level state of mind for the majority of the time.

3. Yup.

4. It's tied with #2. If you have something on your mind, such as a personal family problem or harsh breakup, you won't have much room in your head to cram in other stuff. In reality, you shouldn't expect to perform well at all in such conditions, but playing conservatively on auto-pilot without straining too much in the high level mindset is your best shot.

As for momentum, it's similar to personal issues in the sense that it gets in your head. Worrying that you're getting owned or getting cocky about the fact that you're in a huge lead takes up thinking power, and often leads to some serious mental meltdowns. Trying to tune out your thoughts and getting back to the basics might be a good way to get back on track and get the feelings out of the way.

5. Refer to #1.
 

exdia_16

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I play rock, paper, scissors often before a tournament, helps my guessing and reads in short times.
im going to try that and how long do you play for?

Yeah this is what I was shooting for.

@Exdia: You keep coming2tourneys&you'll def see me again bruh.. Mario Bros. errday, all day.
you already know slim Errday im :troll:in
:afrainbo:

I actually like to start a match with a new opponent by just letting em wail on me. Sure, I'll toss out some fireballs and jabs to manage the pressure, but I mostly just want to get an advantage by learning how they play without having to worry about getting outplayed and fall too far behind in %.


can give a few ex. for a better pic plz?
 

Sleek Media

Smash Lord
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Messages
1,399
im going to try that and how long do you play for?

I actually like to start a match with a new opponent by just letting em wail on me. Sure, I'll toss out some fireballs and jabs to manage the pressure, but I mostly just want to get an advantage by learning how they play without having to worry about getting outplayed and fall too far behind in %.

can give a few ex. for a better pic plz?
So say you're up against someone who has an advantage but doesn't completely destroy us, like Ike. Is this gonna be a defensive Ike who's gonna go for a shield->jab combo, or is this an aggressive Ike who's gonna start busting out fairs right off the bat? Either way, just hang back and throw some fireballs. If he comes at you, just dodge and let him chase you...see how he tries to get you. If he sits there blocking fireballs, wear down his shield, then cross him up with a dair, then get out. See what he went for (grab, jab, etc). You're not trying to wreck him, just trying to see how he plays without taking too much damage. Once you're ready, switch things up and play for real using what you learned. It'll give you an advantage.

Of course, nothing will help you in the unwinnable matches. Just throw fairs in protest.
 

Omari

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@ThatGuy: What did you mean by deduction exactly?

Yes, I'm aware that your enemy should be your main focus (you know what you're gonna do) but are there times at which your character should be observed?

I'm at a stand-still where I know/believe I'm mad good, but at same time can't prove it to myself (this isn't only smash related). It's frustrating that I'm still stuck on this nervous hurdle...& yet I remain humble. That's why regardless whether I agree with you or not, I continue to ask questions.

Thanks, I'll take your advice including people I asked offline. *I'm gonna carry multiple notebooks for games I play competitively.


@Sleek Media (&ne1 else): No one laughed at you (mainly me) when you attempted to explain realistic ratios (non-winnable*) for top/high tier MUs v Mario. Not everyone is going to be like/agree with you; if you have nothing nice to say, then it's better left unsaid. I (or anyone else) can't make you do anything but if you continue to act out I'll either be nice or ignore. No offense.
 

ThatGuy

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@ThatGuy: What did you mean by deduction exactly?

Yes, I'm aware that your enemy should be your main focus (you know what you're gonna do) but are there times at which your character should be observed?

I'm at a stand-still where I know/believe I'm mad good, but at same time can't prove it to myself (this isn't only smash related). It's frustrating that I'm still stuck on this nervous hurdle...& yet I remain humble. That's why regardless whether I agree with you or not, I continue to ask questions.

Thanks, I'll take your advice including people I asked offline. *I'm gonna carry multiple notebooks for games I play competitively.


@Sleek Media (&ne1 else): No one laughed at you (mainly me) when you attempted to explain realistic ratios (non-winnable*) for top/high tier MUs v Mario. Not everyone is going to be like/agree with you; if you have nothing nice to say, then it's better left unsaid. I (or anyone else) can't make you do anything but if you continue to act out I'll either be nice or ignore. No offense.
I guess I was vague with just throwing out 'deduction'. I meant more along the lines of logical analysis. Weighing which options would work best for you in a given situation, what options would work best for an opponent in said given situation, and how you can overlap these conclusions for a viable approach.

When you're trying to learn and perfect something spacing/timing wise, you should look at your character, since you don't care much about the opponent. In a real match, your character should never be observed. You already know where you are and what you're doing. Your concentration should be on your opponent, and on the battlefield.

You've got the right attitude Omari. Without questions, there are no answers. Better to learn things the right way than to stumble along in blind ignorance.
 

Sleek Media

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@ThatGuy: What did you mean by deduction exactly?
@Sleek Media (&ne1 else): No one laughed at you (mainly me) when you attempted to explain realistic ratios (non-winnable*) for top/high tier MUs v Mario. Not everyone is going to be like/agree with you; if you have nothing nice to say, then it's better left unsaid. I (or anyone else) can't make you do anything but if you continue to act out I'll either be nice or ignore. No offense.
That sounded awfully mom-like, but I honestly can't determine whether you're trying to be nice or a douche. The post was just that incoherent. Regardless, I say what I like. If you agree, then good for you, you found someone on the internet who thinks like you. If not, tough nuts, I'm gonna say it anyway.

I'll reiterate. There are least five unwinnable matchups for Mario: MK, Falco, Marth, 3D, and Kirby. The only way you'll win is if your opponent is grossly incompetent, and even then it'll be way harder than it should be. Played properly, you don't have a prayer, so grab some chips and a soda while you watch your own beatdown. If you disagree, then by all means, go have fun getting wrecked out there. When you start taking down the top players for those five, get back to me, and not before.
 

Omari

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@Sleek Media: Before unnecessary drama starts ( again ) with you I'll clear the air (again).

1. As stated before: I'm not dictating what you should/shouldn't do (it's your action which I don't have nor want control over).

2. No one has anything to prove to the community let alone you if anyone. The only person I strive to prove w/e goals to is myself.

3. No offense (again) but 1st understand your own terminology before using it. Thanks.

*I'm not going to stoop down to your level, become negative because I can't win, ridicule other smashers & debate "unwinnable" MUs with flawed arguments/theories/opinions. Say w/e you'd like going forward but I'm done here.

Good day sir.


Mario boards: After spending some time in the lab, I confirmed that Mario has a safe block-string (2hits/enemy can't release block so treat it as absolute guard). Recently tested on static platforms such as Battlefield (BF).

I don't want to assume so I won't make up any name but at the same time I'll explain as best I can to describe how this works.

I believe certain moves...

Mario:
1. u-tilt (from edge)
2. d-tilt (from edge)
3. d-smash (both)
4. f-smash (to edge)
5. u-smash (to edge)
6. fire ball (from ledge *if enemy close by*)
7. cape (from edge)

...may induce"self knock-back" if they make contact with your enemy's shield while near the platform's edge. Since your ground attacks aren't available due to Mario being airborne, he only has access to airs/specials (can double jump after/several of which aren't useful). Needless to say, I stumbled across a certain useful followups after playing around with all possible outcomes.

When facing from a platform's edge, Mario can do X move followed by Y:
1. Confirmed safe block-string: D-smash (from)>u-air (tilt to enemy while d-smashing to maximize u-air's range) The only problem is the d-smash doesn't cover as much as u-smash does/enemy can't be but so far away (close to spaced range)

*(possible frame-trap) D-smash (from)>f-air (tilt to enemy while d-smashing to maximize f-air range)

**u-tilt has many possible outcomes (broken) but I believe is risky due to Mario having to be @ the edge exactly to pull off any of his possible followups/frame-traps.

***u-smash is excellent for inducing "self knock-back" but there's barely any practical followups due to it's shield-stun/knock-back.
 

Sleek Media

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I'm sorry, but all I could make out of that big wall of text was:

LALALA I CANT HEAR YOU! MARIO IS LEGIT! ALALALALA!

So, yeah. Like I said, go wild out there, bro. Let me know when you take down a tournament with some big names in the unwinnable five.
 

Matador

Maybe Even...Utopian?
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Knock it off, Sleek. Either present your arguments intelligently, or don't post anything at all.

Here, I'll even start you off: Why in God's name do you think Kirby is an unwinnable match-up?

:phone:
 

Kanzaki

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Wasn't Sleek Media crying last time no one wanted an "intelligent" conversation? I'm not a fan of Omari's wall of text, but he's trying something in HIS THREAD. If you don't like it, you don't have to be in it. If you want to be a part of it, instead of crying bout "unwinnable match ups", ask how to win it?
 

ThatGuy

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As silly as this sounds, take Sleek Media's words to heart: beat the top players of those characters (seems like Kirby was already done with the Boss vs Chu Dat video though!), and get back to him. Treat it like motivation, not flame bait, and we'll be better for it.

If no one has what it takes, then maybe the matchups truly are unwinnable.
 

Sleek Media

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Knock it off, Sleek. Either present your arguments intelligently, or don't post anything at all.

Here, I'll even start you off: Why in God's name do you think Kirby is an unwinnable match-up?

:phone:
Tried it before, nobody could keep up. Maybe y'all will last half a page this time? I doubt it.

So Kirby, he dominates us on the ground, and dominates even worse in the air. Main tools to ruin us are back air (against which we have NOTHING when used properly), an incredible fsmash, and all the usual problems associated with a character that outranges and overpowers us (our fsmash unsafe, low% combos on us, gimping, etc). The only thing that's nice about Kirby is that he's not MK, so you'll at least be able to do some damage if you can get under him, and he can't spam like MK does. Not helped by the fact that he can gimp us, but we can't gimp him. And God help you if he copies fireballs.

What makes Kirby different from other characters who are more powerful and outrange us, like Snake? The other problem with Kirby is that he outmaneuvers us. The little guy is fast...too fast for us to control with our pressure tools. It's just another one of those matchups where you just try to stay alive and hope the other guy gets overzealous and makes a mistake. 1:1 we lose in every aspect of this match, so why do you think that with perfect play, it could somehow end in Mario's favor? Other than you like playing as Mario, and therefore it's unacceptable that he could have an unwinnable matchup?

Look, that was a nice video with Boss and Chu, but don't kid yourselves.


As silly as this sounds, take Sleek Media's words to heart: beat the top players of those characters (seems like Kirby was already done with the Boss vs Chu Dat video though!), and get back to him. Treat it like motivation, not flame bait, and we'll be better for it.

If no one has what it takes, then maybe the matchups truly are unwinnable.
THANK YOU. Nice to know there's another intelligent person here. That's pretty much exactly what you're supposed to take away from my message. Trust me, I take no pleasure in Mario being that badly outmatched. I'd love to be PROVED wrong. PROVED. That means using Mario to take out the top players of the unwinnable five. Not whining on the internet.
 

Matador

Maybe Even...Utopian?
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THANK YOU. Nice to know there's another intelligent person here. That's pretty much exactly what you're supposed to take away from my message. Trust me, I take no pleasure in Mario being that badly outmatched. I'd love to be PROVED wrong. PROVED. That means using Mario to take out the top players of the unwinnable five. Not whining on the internet.
The thing is, everyone's already on the same page here. We KNOW these things need to be proven. That was never the issue with your idea of how the ratios should be.

The issue was that, in your opinion, our high tier match-ups should be 0-100 in the opposition's favor unless one of us has beaten a top player using that character.

I personally just disagree with that. Instead, we should do what we've been doing, which is assess options that Mario has vs each character, then come up with something based on that. If tourney results contradict what we've come up with as far as ratios and whatnot, then we just re-assess...not go to the extreme and deem the match-ups unwinnable.

There are so many flaws in that way of thinking.

:phone:
 

Sleek Media

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There are so many flaws in that way of thinking.
:phone:
I agree with you, but that's not the way I'm thinking.

I came to the 0-100 conclusion after playing a certain amount of MK, Falco, and Marth matches. Now, I know it doesn't mean squat to you if I say this, but I'm a damn good Mario player. I know what I'm doing. I know the tricks, the mix-ups, the strategies, you name it. For the life of me, though, I can't find any way to deal with these characters. If I destroy someone playing, say, Fox and Wolf, then they switch to Falco as a secondary or even tertiary, I get completely shut down. I've tried everything I can think of, short of developing superhuman reflexes in order to powershield every attack. If we just had something we could rely on, like a finisher setup or any kind of approach whatsoever, it would be a completely different story, but we don't even have the basic essentials needed to compete in these matches.

Granted, I'll concede that among the five I consider to be unbeatable, some are much worse than others. You can fight back a little bit against Kirby...he has to at least play around your smashes. Trying to get close to Marth is like running into a burning building firing razor blades at you, but if you get in, you can actually do some damage. MK, on the other hand...you're just screwed no matter where you are or what you do.

That said, it's just way too big of an influence on the outcome of a match. It's not just a matter of needing a certain amount of skill over the other player to win, like in a normal disadvantaged matchup (Ike, G&W, etc). You need to be more skilled than the other player by a wide margin, AND they have to be under a certain level of skill as well. In the hands of a pro, I don't see any of these characters losing to Mario.

Now, if you have any ideas for beating these five, I'm all ears. I don't know how you're going to suggest dealing with something like DDD's standing infinite, but by all means, I'd love to hear that there's some kind of frame buffering technique nobody has figured out yet that would let us break out of it. I'd love to hear about a reliable method for gimping the bird, or an anti-air that wrecks Marth's fair consistently. I can't help you in this regard, because I haven't found anything that works. All I can do is give you my reasons, and wait for you to think of something I haven't. Of course, theorycraft isn't enough to serve as proof - eventually, one of us will have to go to a tournament and beat top players for those five. If we can't do it, then I feel my 0-100 is justified. Think of it as a challenge, because it is THE challenge that is keeping us in the bottom tier.
 

Matador

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There were many things in '08 that I believed were impossible to do with Mario that I am currently capable of. To suggest that there are situations that Mario as a character has NO options for is to suggest that Mario as a character has reached his potential.

I whole-heartedly disagree with that...for any Mario. People are JUST NOW finding out that, in Melee, Jiggz has a soft-counter in YLink. That game is 10 years old.

None of us attends tourneys regularly enough (that I know of) or plays enough high level players (that I know of) to get to the level of skill required to use Mario to the fullest. We don't have a San or __X__ or M2K. We HAD Boss who didn't even own a Wii or use Mario exclusively, and STILL he outplaces all of us, has won tourneys with solo Mario, and has beaten good mains of all those characters in MD/VA using Mario.

I maintain the stance that we just need to step it up. This isn't new...I've been saying this for years...since before Anti's pocket Mario nearly beat Nairo's MK and before Irios got 5th out of 100+ people at that european tourney with solo Mario.

Also take note of all the great Marios over the years that have become inactive or quit. All of their progress with the character abruptly dies the minute they retire. Currently, I do not think any of us has what it takes. Currently.

As soon as we stop blaming Mario for sucking, we can start winning.

:phone:
 

Coolwhip

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I agree with matador here.

We as (Solo) marios got to step it up in our current metagame to become
"Elite" skilled marios.

Yeah. mario does have "unwinnable" match-ups, but i believe in overcoming
"The impossible odds" with mario.

The marios outside of this country can come here & cause some ugly upsets
Like flameleon, zeta & Irios over top american players.
 

Kanzaki

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I've never lost to a Marth in a tourney.. except to MikeHaze, but he's just a better player than me. Hell I even have a win against DSF's Marth, he had to switch out to another character.

Unwinnable ftw.
 

- Theelitebrawler -

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I agree with matador here.

We as (Solo) marios got to step it up in our current metagame to become
"Elite" skilled marios.
Im Theelitebrawler :awesome:. Nah Im just joking but I know what you mean we have to step it up if we want to get Mario any recondition, It really is up setting when you here something like "Omg I lost to Mario that Low Tier scrub."
 

Sleek Media

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I'm glad you're so determined, Matador, but there's a very good reason high level Mario players quit. You talk about people still finding new stuff in Melee. That's great, but it's always "characters we already knew were really good can actually be better than the characters we thought were the best". Realistically, Mario has a better chance of getting into the high tiers in Melee than he does in Brawl. You're basically looking for the equivalent of taking down the top tiers with Melee Kirby.

There's also the matter of Brawl becoming outdated. Mario barely has a playerbase as it is. I don't really see what all progress is gonna be made when half of us jump ship to the new games in about two years. I'm sorry, Brawl just isn't a 10 year game for me. Heck, it wasn't even a one year game for half the community.

Anyway, what I really want to ask is: how do you envision Mario making this big jump in playability? Do you think we're going to find some kind of glitch like wavedashing that would give us an edge? A hidden gameplay element like DI? Learning to powershield every attack without fail? What's the game plan here? "Step it up, guys" isn't gonna help Mario any more than it has in the past.
 

Omari

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[COLLAPSE="hm, I never thought about it that way..."]Yesterday, I questioned myself about my current skill in multiple fighters I play competitively (not only brawl). What information exactly am I attempting to convey (what message am I convincing you with)? If you were to ask me an inexperienced me (why do you play this game on a competitive level with X character/Y reason?), aside from having fun (my top priority) I'd probably say, "To convince those who play this game competitively too that X character to best character in game do to Y reasons".

Today, I had to re-think/ask/observe myself regarding what I'm attempting to do here with these "Breaking Mario" threads? If someone were to ask the same questions now my answer now would honestly be, "to exploit their strengths beyond measure, understand (admit) their weaknesses in order to not be backed into inescapable corners (actually a life lesson those who didn't know: Don't back yourself into corners you can't get out of) & to "actively think" at an efficient rate. Yes, to those using (starting out with) the actual top character may highly disagree but I feel/believe that using characters with a limited supply of options benefits your mindset. Why? Eventually when narrow out all the said options not doable, you tend to ask yourself more advanced questions like, "what in my arsenal is beneficial to me (options highly in your favor) & detrimental to their (worse possible positioning) game-plan"?[/COLLAPSE]
"Where are you going with this Omari"?

Sleek Media mentioned & I'm sure everyone would like to know what's my our game-plan for Mario (meta-game if you will) for 2012 going forward? Me: Break Mario in such a way that others can't compete (creating near impossible situations for the enemy to escape from).

I thought about the term execution again... Personally I love asking questions/getting different responses from different viewpoints (brings me steps closer to the ideal meaning/concept of how to conquer the task at hand).

My current question to you all: What does execution mean in your own words? Take as much time as you need but I'm asking that you give it enough thought.

To me, execution means ensuring top punishment (ideally death: a stock in smash) for an unwelcome action. Tech Skill goes hand in hand with execution so I'd also like to hear what that word means in your own words.

***I'll be at KTAR6 alongside Famous/possibly KirinBlaze; Inferno, there's a chance I may become inactive for a minute (college semester) but my next big event will be Apex 2012. I'll do my best to remain active in sessions/tourneys. Thanks
 

Omari

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Ironically, that mindset (beating experienced people) messes me up during tournaments. When I think about the outcome (forget winning/losing/draw/timeout etc) experience goes out the window. All I'm thinking/focused on the community's reaction. Sounds weird but that's where I find myself several tourneys...

I'm approaching KTAR6 a whole new way..:
1. Placing not to be a thought or concern
2. Not losing at all/any cost w Mario (play as best I can, forget whether I'm leading or drafting)
3. Have a smash notebook ready to write down any current emotions
4. Eating mad early (several smashers explained that you're naturally gonna wanna sleep after eating so it's better to eat either before/after (pools/bracket at least) tourney, slows down reaction time)
5. Getting there early & heating up
6. Having a mad good time at the hotel (hype!)
7. Recording replays for DTM4 (I got you Fire!)
8. ......uh I can't think of anything else at the time but I'll edit if anything

*I'd like to hear all of your definitions.

My current question to you all: What does execution mean in your own words? Take as much time as you need but I'm asking that you give it enough thought.

To me, execution means ensuring top punishment (ideally death: a stock in smash) for an unwelcome action. Tech Skill goes hand in hand with execution so I'd also like to hear what that word means in your own words.
 

Sleek Media

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Definitions for what? I play for one reason only: to have fun. That's the only reason to play any game. You still haven't specified how you imagine Mario being used that much better. "Creating near impossible situations for the enemy" would be nice, but would you mind telling us how you plan to back MK or Falco into a corner? You gonna punish a whole stock with uair chains?

:phone:
 

Matador

Maybe Even...Utopian?
Joined
Jun 9, 2007
Messages
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Location
Bowie, MD
No glitch or new discovery needed. San, FOW, Vicegrip, Shaky, Pink Fresh, Noid and all the other high level players that main mid/low tiers gained success with their characters without glitches or discoveries. They've been able to knock down top players armed only with knowledge of the game and their character.

Hell, if all of us were as good as Boss, Mario would probably upper mid already.

I'll say it again: we need to improve on the little things. Abusing ledge options, baiting, punishing heavily and consistently...all that good stuff. We just aren't there yet, skillwise.

@Omari: To me, Execution generally means having control over your character. Kinda hand-in-hand with techskill. I would say that players like Gnes and Anther have good execution. A character like ICs require good execution to play well.

It's not necessarily techskill though. Dropping shield and Dsmashing EVERY TIME someone spaces an attack badly on shield is good execution, but not really techskill.

:phone:
 

ThatGuy

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
3,089
Location
Laval-Ouest, Quebec, Canada
Definitions for what? I play for one reason only: to have fun. That's the only reason to play any game. You still haven't specified how you imagine Mario being used that much better. "Creating near impossible situations for the enemy" would be nice, but would you mind telling us how you plan to back MK or Falco into a corner? You gonna punish a whole stock with uair chains?

:phone:
You let Falco back himself into a corner actually.
 

Omari

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Messages
399
Location
Jamaica, NY
Definitions for what?
Personally I love asking questions/getting different responses from different viewpoints (brings me steps closer to the ideal meaning/concept of how to conquer the task at hand).
[COLLAPSE="@SM: Extra"]1. Having fun is supposed to be your top priority when playing video games but then again that's my opinion. Problems occurs when winning (other goals) surpasses fun
2. You're contradicting yourself (again) by wanting to know how to win & yet stating the only reason you play is to have fun. What does this mean? For you winning>fun & problems occur when you don't.
3. There's no certain way to use Mario (any character). It's basically choosing the best decision most beneficial to you.
4. You haven't explained what you're having trouble with in those MUs or asked. The only statement I took from you (after all the threads & posts) is, "until X Mario main defeats the best player who uses Y character, then I won't say anything about that particular MU". Until then, it's declared "unwinnable". I'm empathizing but you still make no sense which I'm not going to waste time debating why.
5. Your mindset/attitude/sarcasm etc is why I find it difficult to take you serious enough.
*I do see how you're attempting motivate others but I believe it's not working how you once thought it would.[/COLLAPSE]
Dropping shield and Dsmashing EVERY TIME someone spaces an attack badly on shield is good execution, but not really techskill.
@Med: 1st, I agree with you about having control over you character(s) but I'm :confused: @ the last part, I believe you got the idea from me that of punishing your opponent with the highest damage possible somehow=tech skill. I don't agree nor did I explain in my own words (ma fault).

Tech Skill to me in a sense means dexterity. I see you like mentioning smashers you're inspired by to I'll attempt the same route.

To me, Delta-Cod (stop name searching Delta:mad:) has excellent dexterity. I don't mean that in a sense of he's just a patient/clever player..... I mean he knows when his character is without knowing, knows where he wants you at the same time & puts you awkward positions anytime there's a loophole offense. For short, he's on point.

@ThatGuy:You're right but I believe SM would like an explanation.
 

Sleek Media

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 29, 2006
Messages
1,399
@Omari
You suck at reading comprehension. Matador understood my arguments just fine. I won't repeat them. Go back and read them again. Or better yet, don't. You haven't made one post of interest to me so far.
 

Matador

Maybe Even...Utopian?
Joined
Jun 9, 2007
Messages
5,718
Location
Bowie, MD
@Med: 1st, I agree with you about having control over you character(s) but I'm :confused: @ the last part, I believe you got the idea from me that of punishing your opponent with the highest damage possible somehow=tech skill. I don't agree nor did I explain in my own words (ma fault).

Tech Skill to me in a sense means dexterity. I see you like mentioning smashers you're inspired by to I'll attempt the same route.

To me, Delta-Cod (stop name searching Delta:mad:) has excellent dexterity. I don't mean that in a sense of he's just a patient/clever player..... I mean he knows when his character is without knowing, knows where he wants you at the same time & puts you awkward positions anytime there's a loophole offense. For short, he's on point.
Naw, the Dsmashing part of my example isn't that important. It's the consistency in Dsmashing every time that makes it good execution. ALWAYS SDIing out of multi-hit attacks properly, is another example. I separate it from techskill since it's more like using timing and reacting to the right situations properly.

Like...I know everyone here has played Pokemon Stadium 2. You know the minigame where you're either scyther or pinsir and you have to chop the wood on the line as it comes down? That requires good execution, but not really techskill.

Techskill is pillaring with Falco and waveshining with Fox on SSBM.

I dunno if I'm explaining well, lol. It makes sense to me though.
 

ThatGuy

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
3,089
Location
Laval-Ouest, Quebec, Canada
Execution is simply getting what you want to happen, happen. It involves being consistent with your spacing, tech skill, and timing.

Examples of good execution: Proper DI, cape gliding accurately, holding a combo string, back air on shield without getting grabbed.

Examples of poor execution: West Coast DI, pressing grab with Z and raising your shield instead, missing autocancel frames accidentally, pressing FLUDD when you meant to capestall the edge and falling to your death (this happens often enough :urg:).

Note that execution does not overlap with mindgames. If you go for a grab and the opponent sidesteps and punishes, that was good execution but poor thinking.

@Sheep: Go to Foonzo Cafe, very nice hangout spot and I'm there randomly on weeknights. Besides, I'm small fry, you should be aiming to beat Ally and M2K ;)
 

JuxtaposeX

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
1,283
Location
Canada
I'll check it out.

I wanna beat your Mario :D Or try to at least. I'm pretty bad.
After I played you for the first time, my execution and autopilot skyrocketed. I saw you play against Holy and I think you got him down to his last stock or something and that's when I decided to go back to maining Mario. (Went to the better plumber at the time) Now my baiting and mindgames got a lot better, but my execution is just horrid.
 

JuxtaposeX

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
1,283
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Canada
The best I did against him was get 2 stocked, but that was a long long time ago. I think I can get 1.5 stock'd now. :D
 
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