Buffing/Balancing Shulk [SSB4]

[greatbernard]

• All Smash attacks inflict 2 more damage and have a slightly higher knockback multiplier.
• Jab and tilts have 15% less start lag
• Forward Tilt, Down Air, Back Air, and Dash Attack have 20% less end lag
• Back Slash (Side B) has 15% less end lag and deals 1.8x damage on shields

 

[Claxus]

Hm... dunno if I can agree with this. He'd be pretty broken with the first and third points. 3% more plus higher knockback on Smash attacks is a pretty huge deal... and that's not even accounting to how huge that would be with Monado Smash. In Buster, his Smash attacks would have some godly shield-breaking capabilities...

Back Slash is honestly pretty fast as is, for what it is. It's a very wide attack with decent range, that pushes Shulk with extra momentum. I think it's borderline at non-reactable, right now. Does it need a buff? Well... I'd like less endlag on it, it doesn't need much more offensive power, it just needs to not be such a silly gamble, for being such a difficult gimmick to begin with. But... do you realize with 2.5x damage to shields, it would probably insta-break a shield from the front with Buster? Dunno if that's accurate... but it would make the back hit do so much shield damage in Buster that it's enough to break two shields... it'd probably break another Shulk's shield with Monado Shield.

F-Tilt is kind of bad in endlag, but... it does become a relatively quick KO tilt around 90% with Monado Smash. But it's just endlag, so I dunno... I just don't want Shulks to go spamming Smash F-Tilts safely. Down Air just needs to autocancel earlier, I think, it's normal for D-Airs to be laggy, but Shulk can't even fullhop with his. Back Air is pretty unpunishable as it is now... and I'm sort of fine with less endlag on the Dash attack. I think 25% less endlag is enough, though...

 

[greatbernard]

I took your suggestions and toned down the buffs to more reasonable levels. Thanks.

 

[Aarrow]

I feel that the given changes really don't address Shulk's primary issues which (in my opinion) come down to
1: His difficulties in close combat (which isn't necessarily unique to him as a spacing sword character, but is lacking in a degree completely separate from characters like Marth); This comes down to the start up frames of his normals (namely tilts/jab)
2: The ineffectiveness of a number of his spacing tools; while the cd on Ftilt would definitely help this, the main issue (from my perspective) is that the strongest hitbox of his Fair is closer to the hilt, which, in a sense, ruins the immense range of the move-mostly in terms of shield pressure

 

[Masonomace]

Buffing/balancing Shulk. . .. hmmmmmmmmmm

I would abstain from this, but I'll indulge:

• All Smash attacks inflict 2 more damage and have a somewhat higher knockback multiplier.

This is pretty broad to me. All it says it 2 more damage, but that doesn't exactly focus on what's getting changed about every Fsmash because they're all multi-hit, so the bigger question is. "What spots / hitboxes are getting 2% more damage???". Somewhat higher knockback seems nuts for Shulk considering his smash attacks can hit hard.

• Forward Tilt, Down Air, Back Air, and Dash Attack have 25% less end lag

25% is far too much. Ftilt having a FAF of 44 would get reduced by 11 frames (if my math isn't terrible). That said, Ftilt with a FAF of 33 is dumb.

• Back Slash (Side B) has 25% less end lag and deals 1.8x damage on shields

This is overtuning Back Slash. I would say that Back Slash right now doesn't deal enough damage but 1.8x additional damage is too much. Something around 19% - 20% for the sweetspot sounded fine to me one time. Endlag getting a 10% reduction would also be fine since that only reduces endlag to a FAF of 41 to 37.

I'd list my personal changes but it's too much for a post response DX.

 

[greatbernard]

The damage increase on Back Slash only affects shields. Otherwise, I implemented your suggestions.

 

[ExcaliburGuy]

The biggest problem with Shulk is his frame data. I would say a frame 3 jab would greatly aid Shulk's up-close-and-personal game. Also a 5 frame reduction on the startup of his nair and fair (which I believe are currently frame 13 and 14 respectively) would also be amazing. Personally, I would also greatly speed up the nair animation (kinda like how PM sped up Ike's nair), but that is just wishful thinking and it's maybe not even balanced.
But here's something that would be balanced: some ACTUAL autocancel windows. The fact that double jump up air in Jump Art does not autocancel is just unethical, man.
As for Back Slash, the startup is alright for what it is, but it really needs waaay less endlag to be a viable punish. Also, it shouldn't put you into a state of "You're dead-ness" when used offstage. You should be able to jump out of it, like, sometime at least. Or make it snap to ledges. That would be cool.