Bullet Seed has invincibility

[Steeler]

frames 1-3

comes out on frame 4

discuss how sexy "BS" is

bullet seed is bull**** lol

 

[Bestiarius]

Are you positive? This makes Bullet Seed even more broken! Things like this are why I love Ivy and think he's an absolute beast.

 

[Steeler]

ivysaur still sucks

bullet seed, however, is middle of C tier

it doesn't really change much but it's still cool to know.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

Bullet Seed I find is a good combo breaker on many characters since there are always intervals between combos, and timed right, they just fall right into the side hits.

 

[Syrus_Draco]

discuss how sexy "BS" is

bullet seed is bull**** lol

Mmm yeah, the sex factor just went up.

 

[Miles.]

I always thought so.

How do you know for sure Steeler?

What are you basing this off of?

 

[Steeler]

this man

http://www.smashboards.com/member.php?u=75883

responsible for teaching everyone how to grab frame data

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=193379

and a really in depth look at mk's frame data

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=205614

so you can trust him when he says something comes out on some frame

 

[MrEh]

Bullet Seed is now almost as sexy as Bowser's Fortress.

Almost.

 

[_Marth_]

Bullet Seed is pretty annoying but in a way it's kinda easy to see coming, considering they have to run up beside you and hope they get the initial attack to put you in the way of the Bullet Seed's fire. Also if they miss it takes a sec to stop so "They're open!".

 

[Onxy]

I still suck with Ivysaur

bullet seed, however, is middle of B tier

it doesn't really change much but it's still cool to know.

Fixed that there for ya'.

 

[Palpi]

if ur not hitting with the first hit of bullet seed it is soo easily DI'd out of, very punishable.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

if ur not hitting with the first hit of bullet seed it is soo easily DI'd out of, very punishable.

mm.. i think that its SDIable if you actually hit with the first part of the attack
Bullet seed rocks!!!!!! :D
Its still very punishable... but you should use it to punish... so the chance of getting punished is not that high... wow i use the word "punish" a lot..
I knew there was something rare with bullet seed's startup, but no that .. good

 

[DemonFart]

interesting...this makes ivysaur more sexier then before but not by much. i guess its just useful in starting up bullet seed

 

[typh]

oh **** i feel bad now because i used it against someone and he was like "wtf i didn't know that had invincibility frames" and i yelled at him "NO IT DOESN'T YOU STUPID ***GOT I PLAY POKEMON TRAINER I SHOULD KNOW. DON'T GIVE ME MISINFORMATION ABOUT MY CHARACTER YOU ******* MOTHER ****ER" and i ripped out his controller and smashed it against his dog's head

 

[Retro Gaming]

this makes ivysaur more sexier then before but not by much.

How? Ivysaur as a character hasn't changed at all. The community just learned something new about Ivysaur's Bullet Seed, is all.

 

[Steeler]

oh **** i feel bad now because i used it against someone and he was like "wtf i didn't know that had invincibility frames" and i yelled at him "NO IT DOESN'T YOU STUPID ***GOT I PLAY POKEMON TRAINER I SHOULD KNOW. DON'T GIVE ME MISINFORMATION ABOUT MY CHARACTER YOU ******* MOTHER ****ER" and i ripped out his controller and smashed it against his dog's head

hahaha this

i would have reacted the same way

well less dog smashing but ya

 

[adumbrodeus]

Question, where did hotgarbage give this info?

 

[Steeler]

to me, in an irc chat. he happened to discover it while i was on.

 

[hotgarbage]

Just so there's some visual proof of this:

Frame 1:

Frame 2:

Frame 3:

Frame 4:

FraWHEEEEEEEEEEE:

 

[TheREALShadowChaos]

Edit: Lol at that post. ^

Is this really that usable? if it lasts that short....

Bullet Seed is really sexy anyway lo. It must make Ivysaur very happy when he does 40% in 2 seconds. :-D

 

[DemonFart]

How? Ivysaur as a character hasn't changed at all. The community just learned something new about Ivysaur's Bullet Seed, is all.

lol retro i was kidding this discovery is still useful anyway, it just informs people that when starting bullet seed they cannot be interupted.

 

[Miles.]

i just want everyone to know that this info *****.

ME mr i dont like ivy ***** really hard with this today.

**** snakes ftilt that all i got to say.

BS raaaaaaaapes!

 

[DemonFart]

amen man...amen

 

[Ussi]

The pictures only show frame 1 invincible. I want to see frame two and three proof too. There could b a chance only frame 1 was invincible and not 2 and 3..

 

[adumbrodeus]

Edit: Lol at that post. ^

Is this really that usable? if it lasts that short....

Bullet Seed is really sexy anyway lo. It must make Ivysaur very happy when he does 40% in 2 seconds. :-D

Yes... yes it is.

Because of exactly this, Marth can up-b through Falco's chaingrab and jab combo, among other things.


In fact... a good amount of the stuff that Marth can do with dolphin Slash, congrats, they're also yours.

That means a lot of multi-hit moves and locks don't work anymore.


Seriously guys, this is an amazing discovery, go with it, congrats, you just got your own dolphin slash.

The pictures only show frame 1 invincible. I want to see frame two and three proof too. There could b a chance only frame 1 was invincible and not 2 and 3..

There are 5 picutures.

The first shows ZZS activating her jab (frame 1) at the same time as bullet seed activates. The jab has no effect and ZSS is hit by bullet seed.

The second shows peach activating her jab (frame 2) at the same time as ivysaur activates bullet seed. The jab passes through with no effect, and peach is hit by bullet seed.

The third shows MK activating his downsmash (frame 3) at the same time as ivysaur activates his bullet seed, downsmash has no effect, and MK is hit by bullet seed.

The forth shows Marth activating his jab (frame 4) at the same time as ivysaur activates bullet seed. They both hit.

The fifth shows all the pictures mixed.

 

[Toby.]

I'm so happy!

<3 <3

 

[Ussi]

oh crud... I blame my phone for not showing me this clearly.. sorry >_<

 

[Steeler]

if you master SDI

bullet seed is omg

you can now sdi jabs, multi hit moves, anything and bullet seed them if their cooldown lasts longer than your hitlag, which is often the case.

of course it's punishable if predictable, but so is dolphin slash and that **** is good. except what ds does is kill at like mid 100s with sweetspot, and do a decent amount of damage...like 15% max idk.

bullet seed will do 30-40% when everything goes right.

so ya, i know we've been using bs to interrupt some stuff, but now we know just how good it is.

 

[Ulevo]

I know that for Marth, the alternative to using Dolphin Slash OoS if you choose to keep tap jump off is to press jump the moment you initiate Dolphin Slash. Why not do the same for Ivysaur, and change the L/R trigger you do not use to Special/Jump, so that you can initiate both on the same frame?

That way you could perform BS OoS.

 

[Miles.]

I know that for Marth, the alternative to using Dolphin Slash OoS if you choose to keep tap jump off is to press jump the moment you initiate Dolphin Slash. Why not do the same for Ivysaur, and change the L/R trigger you do not use to Special/Jump, so that you can initiate both on the same frame?

That way you could perform BS OoS.

I already started doing this and its ****!!!

Do IT PTS!!!

 

[Bomber7]

I got a question.

If Ivy has invincibilty while using BS, would that mean he can take marth's Final Smash like Charizard can with his recovery?

 

[adumbrodeus]

I got a question.

If Ivy has invincibilty while using BS, would that mean he can take marth's Final Smash like Charizard can with his recovery?

Yes, if you can make sure he hits you between frames 1 and 3...

Yeah, not that useful, there are tons of better moves for this.

 

[Ryusuta]

Huh... I actually thought this was common knowledge already...

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Bullet Seed is now almost as sexy as Bowser's Fortress.

Almost.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

As a Melee Bowser main, I can appreciate this notion.

EDIT: This is wonderful. We have a legit "Counter"-like move with Ivysaur now. What we should do is look at the stuff the Jigglypuff boards have on the "Perfect Rest" technique (Rest has 3 frames of invincibility while having a 3-frame hitbox), and we should be able to easily get a good idea of what we can do with good timing and/or Smash DI.

 

[Miles.]

I totally agree with you Reflex.

Jiggly is my secondary and I have already begun to apply the emulation of perfect rest situations but with bulletseed.

I played a Falcon in tourney this sat and everytime he jabbed me he at bulletseed.

Snakes Ftilt punished it with Bulletseed.

Also I have L set to Jump for how I foward hydroplane, and I have been using Bulletseed out of shield and its too good IMO.

Bulletseed is tooo fun.

Ivy is quickly becoming my new fav.

Basically you just get then to attack your shield and then just bulletseed, since there is basically no shield drop lag in brawl.


BuuuuuullllleeetttttssseeeeeeEEEEEEeeeeDDDDDUuuuuuHHHH1!!!!!!1!!!1!!

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Ivy is quickly becoming my new fav.

I'm stuck between Ivysaur and Charizard now. Ivysaur N-Air is my current favorite move; it comboes like crazy. Charizard just has a lot of good tools at his disposal that I'm getting used to using.

Hopefully I'll get to mess around with the Bullet Seed stuff soon.

 

[Retro Gaming]

Marth can Dolphin Slash out of Falco's chaingrab, right? How's Ivysaur fare with Bullet Seed? Is it possible or no? Seems like the windows tighter.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Marth can Dolphin Slash out of Falco's chaingrab, right? How's Ivysaur fare with Bullet Seed? Is it possible or no? Seems like the windows tighter.

Marth can do it, but I think it has to do with the fact that he bounces a larger distance away. I've been chaingrabbed a thousand times by Kismet, and I've Bullet Seeded out of it a couple times...but I think it's just because he wasn't frame-perfect about it.

I'll try testing it, I guess; maybe I should DI away fully or something. I'll let you know.

 

[zeta]

Marth can Dolphin Slash out of Falco's chaingrab, right? How's Ivysaur fare with Bullet Seed? Is it possible or no? Seems like the windows tighter.

i don't think we can bs out of falco's chain throw

 

[Miles.]

I also agree that we can't BS out of Falco's CG....

....Yet.


Maybe if we SDI and/or Extra Inch DI and Bulletseed maybe there is a frame or 2 window of exscape.

I Know I have done some silly stuff myself SDIing out of grabs.

I mention this because apparently I read Lucas and Ness can smash DI to avoid some grab release infinites or free hits.


-Nor Cal's Beautiful Green Beast