Bullet Seed

[TheSundanceKid]

I was playing Brawl with my friend and he was complaining about Bullet Seed. He called it pretty cheap and said I used it too much, so now I ask...when you play as ivysaur, do you use bullet seed? If you do about how long do you do it for? How often do you use it? I personally use it after they die and when they are next to me and leave themselves wide open for one (which he does frequently)...

 

[Kitamerby]

Spam it whenever they're stupid enough to get above you, and spam it at low %s.

However, don't spam it TOO predictably. It's a great move, so use it often, but wisely.

 

[Superhacker75mil]

Dude, it's not even a question. Bullet Seed, along with b-air and Razor Leaf, is an Ivysaur-defining move. You use it WHENEVER THE OPPORTUNITY PRESENTS ITSELF, no matter how much damage they have, unless the opportunity for a kill is stronger. To call it cheap is pointless...it's in the game, and Ivysaur often struggles against the quicker close-range fighters anyways, so he needs something good to help out at that range (there's also n-air).

But yeah, even if they're at 130% or something, continue to use it if they're close enough, because the more percent you safely rack up, the easier it will be to kill with the moderately powerful moves, like up-tilt, back-throw, up-throw, dash attack, and off-edge b-air harrassment for the gimp, such that you have a wider range of final KO options.

Like Kitamerby said, spamming the move later on is bad because you become predictable, but it's still Ivysaur's ultimate in-close punisher. Spot-dodging or air-dodging into it will usually land.

 

[OrieL]

I use it anytime I can.

 

[Elliot Gale]

I shield seed whenever I get the chance, though there are times when it can't reach far enough or fast enough, so I have to settle for A. Out of a Nair, I generally use this too. If not, Utilt or Ftilt depending on where they are.

But yeaaaah, Ivy kind of needs this move fairly badly.

 

[TheSundanceKid]

Dude, it's not even a question. Bullet Seed, along with b-air and Razor Leaf, is an Ivysaur-defining move. You use it WHENEVER THE OPPORTUNITY PRESENTS ITSELF, no matter how much damage they have, unless the opportunity for a kill is stronger. To call it cheap is pointless...it's in the game, and Ivysaur often struggles against the quicker close-range fighters anyways, so he needs something good to help out at that range (there's also n-air).

But yeah, even if they're at 130% or something, continue to use it if they're close enough, because the more percent you safely rack up, the easier it will be to kill with the moderately powerful moves, like up-tilt, back-throw, up-throw, dash attack, and off-edge b-air harrassment for the gimp, such that you have a wider range of final KO options.

Like Kitamerby said, spamming the move later on is bad because you become predictable, but it's still Ivysaur's ultimate in-close punisher. Spot-dodging or air-dodging into it will usually land.

That's exactly what I told him. He leaves himself open and I just take advantage of it. He also complained I use it for too long...I think he's just annoyed by it and is just making excuses

 

[Retro Gaming]

That's exactly what I told him. He leaves himself open and I just take advantage of it. He also complained I use it for too long...I think he's just annoyed by it and is just making excuses

Of course. 99% of the time someone calls "Cheap" in a video game is because they don't want to admit that they're losing because of their own actions. So they scape-goat it to anything else, to keep their own personal image.

The other 1% is when something is actually broken.

 

[the7eleven]

Bullet Seed is a great move for racking up damage, tell your friend he's stupid enough to get in the bullet seed.
I personally use it when people recover too much for ex. DeDeDe's up+b so I just predict where he land and use bullet seed. I use it whenever I get the opportunity to without being punished for it.
Great for 1 on 1 but not for 4 player matches;.

 

[Rauzaruke]

Bullet Seed is a great move for racking up damage, tell your friend he's stupid enough to get in the bullet seed.
I personally use it when people recover too much for ex. DeDeDe's up+b so I just predict where he land and use bullet seed. I use it whenever I get the opportunity to without being punished for it.
Great for 1 on 1 but not for 4 player matches;.

Great for 1 on 1 but not for 4 player matches;.

not for 4 player matches;.

Quoted for undeniable truth. No one will ever let you Bullet **** in piece. They all feel that they have to front smash your face in when you land one.

Bullet Seed when ever you get the opportunity. My personal favorite time to use it is when someone misjudges a roll and overlaps Ivy. Tell your friend that he should play a good Metaknight before calling anything "cheap."

 

[wavelucas]

Spam it whenever they're stupid enough to get above you, and spam it at low %s.

However, don't spam it TOO predictably. It's a great move, so use it often, but wisely.

yeah, its like marth's counter, but more pwnage is involved.

 

[Blackbelt]

Bullet Seed, IMO, is the best move in the entire PT arsenal.

Use it whenever you can.

 

[T-Link]

I use bullet seed when they are at a low damage and only that time. I don't want to be cheap and also, I don't want to waste time using the move when they are at high damage.

 

[Blackbelt]

I use bullet seed when they are at a low damage and only that time. I don't want to be cheap and also, I don't want to waste time using the move when they are at high damage.

1. It's not cheap if it helps you win.

2. I can name one good reason to use it when they're at high percent, at that reason is the dash attack (KO's at 150%)

 

[T-Link]

1. It's not cheap if it helps you win.

2. I can name one good reason to use it when they're at high percent, at that reason is the dash attack (KO's at 150%)

When I did use it a lot people called me cheap and also I have noticed that when bullet seed is done at a higher damage, the opponent goes higher much quicker and doesn't do as much damage.

 

[Blackbelt]

When I did use it a lot people called me cheap and also I have noticed that when bullet seed is done at a higher damage, the opponent goes higher much quicker and doesn't do as much damage.

Yeah, those people are scrubs, and are just whining because they can't live up to the fact they lost.

And yeah, that is true, but my point of the Dash Attack still stands.

 

[T-Link]

Yeah, those people are scrubs, and are just whining because they can't live up to the fact they lost.

And yeah, that is true, but my point of the Dash Attack still stands.

Yeah, the Dash Attack does stand, but is it really at 150%? I could've sworn it was a bit lower.

 

[Blackbelt]

Yeah, the Dash Attack does stand, but is it really at 150%? I could've sworn it was a bit lower.

150% is on the heavier characters.

 

[Superhacker75mil]

1. It's not cheap if it helps you win.

2. I can name one good reason to use it when they're at high percent, at that reason is the dash attack (KO's at 150%)

Quoted for absolute truth (I hate popular abbreviations/acronyms, sorry), though I definitely made that point first, Blackbelt. Still glad to see someone else immediately thought of it.

But even though dash attack becomes a great KO option at that point, don't forget the other now-viable KO tactics after high-percent Bullet Seed abuse:

back-throw

up-throw (horizontal DI monsters like Jiggs, MK, Kirby, Dedede, and Wario especially, easier vertical kills)

off-stage b-airs (well played, these become Ivy's best, and only, gimping tools)

TO BE FAIR, THOUGH. On a higher-tier character, yes, this move would be absurdly broken. Imagine if MK or Snake could do Bullet Seed. Yikes. Also yikes for the very disturbing image of either of them shooting hundreds of seeds out of their heads or mouths, machine-gun style. >_>;;

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

That's exactly what I told him. He leaves himself open and I just take advantage of it. He also complained I use it for too long...I think he's just annoyed by it and is just making excuses

Any decent player can continuously smash DI to the left or right and escape the stream of seeds early, taking only half what they would have otherwise taken and positioning themselves for punishing Ivy. Great players can often predict and smash DI the original BS hit (the pop-up) and avoid the stream altogether.

People don't know how to play this game and become angry when they inevitably run into something that bewilders them; they don't put in the same effort you do, then they complain when it shows in the results. This is why it's more important to learn all the tools (both offensive and defensive) at your disposal than trying to imitate asinine combo videos on youtube.

up-throw (horizontal DI monsters like Jiggs, MK, Kirby, Dedede, and Wario especially, easier vertical kills)

DDD has the worst horizontal movement speed in the game, and Meta Knight is not far behind. I'm not sure if you got confused or if you're referring to something else entirely.

 

[Rauzaruke]

1. It's not cheap if it helps you win.

2. I can name one good reason to use it when they're at high percent, at that reason is the dash attack (KO's at 150%)

I would just like to clarify. If it helps you win and isn't broken to the point of insta-winning then its not cheap. (which it is certainly not)

 

[Superhacker75mil]

DDD has the worst horizontal movement speed in the game, and Meta Knight is not far behind. I'm not sure if you got confused or if you're referring to something else entirely.

My bad about their horizontal DI then, but the reason I lumped them in is because they really are easier to kill vertically. In a study done on character KO percents, all "puffball" type characters are more easily sent flying upwards, and even though Dedede is a real heavyweight, he's included in that category (obviously MK is too). Wario, though not a puffball, is still pretty floaty and vertical KO susceptible; besides, who wants to deal with him using his bike to come all the way back, anyways?

But yeah, bad call on my part for calling MK and DDD "horizontal DI monsters."

 

[TheSundanceKid]

Does Yoshi have the best horizontal speed? or was that ariel game...hmm...I wonder..

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

Yeah, Yoshi has the fastest horizontal acceleration. He's followed by Jiggs, Wario, and Wolf I think.

 

[TheSundanceKid]

Nice name Pope, Simpson FTW

 

[BAND!T]

many characters have a cheap tactic.. like robs sidestep dsmash.. oh how i hate that. and spamcampy wolves with theyre lasers and roll, fsmash. good players know how to avoid these.

 

[MysticKenji]

In a study done on character KO percents, all "puffball" type characters are more easily sent flying upwards, and even though Dedede is a real heavyweight, he's included in that category

DDD has the highest vertical resistance in the game.

 

[Knyaguy]

Quick bullet seed question- Does it automatically stop after a certain period of time or can you keep going forever?

 

[Elliot Gale]

Bullet Seed stops after its launched a number of seeds that would have done 67%.

 

[Peck]

Yes Bullet Seed is like Charizard's flamethrower it stops oevr time.

 

[Bahamut27]

yesss... used when is possible. its excelent move

 

[TheSundanceKid]

It's an awsome move that annoys, what more can you ask for?

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

Just curious, does anyone else use it as a pop-up or do you use it only when the opponent just happens to be above you?

 

[TheSundanceKid]

Both, whenever an oppertunity presents itself

 

[Steeler]

it's fun using it in the air