Social C. Falcon Social

[knightpraetor]

"(and i guess mewtwo's up-b would be good for escaping juggles?)"

yeah m2 can break marth's combos easily.. m2 for top tier^_^

 

[KUSH.]

"(and i guess mewtwo's up-b would be good for escaping juggles?)"

yeah m2 can break marth's combos easily.. m2 for top tier^_^

Uhh it wouldnt be that hard right? Im assuming one is playing against an average marth. Just di accordingly and up b away?

 

[Boat Mode]

So lately (when its appropriate and i have the time to) I've been spacing my grabs so that I'm slightly in front of the other character, and when the grab happens it shifts the opponent by about a characters length (no idea what to use for measurements, "units" in smash are too small imo). I feel like it could have some use in spacing techchases or something.

I haven't really been able to play around w/ it much, but does anyone thing theres any merit in this?

On a side note, Falcon (and some other (most?) characters) have a reverse grab box on their running grab.

 

[tarheeljks]

i don't think it's just on the running grab. i have seen johnny-- i "think" deliberately--execute grabs when fox was behind him. i've tried to do it b/f but most of the time when it happens to me it's an accident lol

 

[KUSH.]

Lol yeah ive seen this phenomenon as well, ive heard lovage in commentary call it the "johnny grab" lmao

 

[Wenbobular]

I think Falcon's grab hitbox is just centered weird
Kinda makes up for his crappy grab range because you can actually shieldgrab most space animal dash attacks

 

[Tee ay eye]

On a side note, Falcon (and some other (most?) characters) have a reverse grab box on their running grab.

i think there's two things at work here:

1. the hitboxes themselves (obviously):

it feels like running grabs have more reverse grab range than running JC grabs. sheik's an obvious example.

falcon's grab hitbox reaches really deceptively far behind him, which is why some falcons (i think) will go for shieldgrabs that wouldn't work with anyone else whenever the opponent is like.... RIGHT on top of you. it wouldn't work with like, marth, fox, or falco, for example.

btw, iirc, mewtwo and falcon have the biggest reverse grab ranges in the game

2. hitbox interpolation:

hitboxes sorta linger in place from frame-to-frame. so for example, if you do a retreating aerial, it will retain some additional range from the hitbox on the previous frame (or something like that) and it will effectively have more range than a really advancing aerial..... so when applied to running grabs, the hitbox will linger BEHIND you, causing you to have a longer reverse grab hitbox.

 

[tarheeljks]

that's pretty neat/interesting

 

[Boat Mode]

Marths reverse runnig grab is pretty whack too. Try running grab chainthrows on fox, he can be competely behind you, it looks hilarious.

Do you think this could be useful in techchasing?

 

[ShiftingShadows28]

Now that you mention the behind grab hitbox, I realise that I intuitively grab when the are RIGHT on top of me as Falcon. Never consciously clock it though, its good to know that I can safely grab a spacy dash attack that is partially through me.

 

[Nova2X]

Ok guys I need opinions on short hopping... yea I said it... short hopping the easy SH. Now I'm not a noob and I can consistently SH with the "X" button when I do my aerials but it has recently been brought to my attention that shorthopping with the analog stick gets you up there faster and lets your aerial come out quicker, I often see some pros do extra quick dairs where the stomp comes out before the body hits the ground and have concluded that that is what they use but just out of curiosity what do you guys use, and what do yall recommend.

Also, how do you deal with a really good shield pressure falco, it gets to the point to where I can't do anything but wind up getting grabbed or shined trying to get away.

 

[It's me Q]

Ok guys I need opinions on short hopping... yea I said it... short hopping the easy SH. Now I'm not a noob and I can consistently SH with the "X" button when I do my aerials but it has recently been brought to my attention that shorthopping with the analog stick gets you up there faster and lets your aerial come out quicker, I often see some pros do extra quick dairs where the stomp comes out before the body hits the ground and have concluded that that is what they use but just out of curiosity what do you guys use, and what do yall recommend.

I use the analog stick for instant/rising arials inc stomp, couldn't do it any other way consistently myself, one finger for jump the other for ariel allows you to get the timing pretty tight.

 

[ShiftingShadows28]

I sometimes used to try and buffer a jump out of shield into a really quick stomp using C-sick up in shield to jump and then quickly flicking it down.
As for short hopping to do faser aerials I reckon its a matter of practising to get the speed necessary.

 

[Boat Mode]

I can do rising uairs w/ the cstick, its completely possible.

I also have very large hands I think it might help.

 

[ShiftingShadows28]

I cant quite do the perfect rising uair with the c stick. I cant pull out the dj after a short hop uair but my flatmate can, so yeah entirely possible.

 

[General Heinz]

Okay, so agree or disagree: FoD is a better stage vs. jiggs than dreamland is vs. jiggs.

I dunno, maybe it's just for how I feel like approaching the matchup (kill the ***** as quick and as low % as possible), but I really feel like jiggs gains more from DL64 than falcon does as far as survivability is concerned, even though it's also a good falcon stage for that same reason, whereas with FoD jiggs gains comparably little and it's really only what falcon loses (ease of maneuvering around those pesky low plats), but at the same time you can kill her much easier on that stage.

Considering it last night I don't know that I would just autoban FoD against puff...it might be dreamland.

Thoughts?

 

[KUSH.]

Okay, so agree or disagree: FoD is a better stage vs. jiggs than dreamland is vs. jiggs.

I dunno, maybe it's just for how I feel like approaching the matchup (kill the ***** as quick and as low % as possible), but I really feel like jiggs gains more from DL64 than falcon does as far as survivability is concerned, even though it's also a good falcon stage for that same reason, whereas with FoD jiggs gains comparably little and it's really only what falcon loses (ease of maneuvering around those pesky low plats), but at the same time you can kill her much easier on that stage.

Considering it last night I don't know that I would just autoban FoD against puff...it might be dreamland.

Thoughts?

good way of looking at the matchup/stage options dude, i deff agree and will start going there now. thanks for the idea

 

[Twinkles]

What do people think of FD vs. Jiggs?

 

[Nova2X]

What do people think of FD vs. Jiggs?

I think its definitely a no go, just because it cuts down your options for escape dramatically. There's also the fact that you can't really attack him safely, your best options would be getting above him for a dair to lead into a tech chase or, if you get the bounce, a combo. You could always hope for the best with a quick uair but if the jiggs is fairly competent that's only going to work less than half of the time.

PLUS offstage is a nightmare, but that just comes with jiggs in general :/


If I had to counterpick a jiggs I would go to pokemon stadium. It might just be because it's my favorite stage but the ledges help with escapes a bit and the map changes help your options also.

Any thoughts???

 

[ShiftingShadows28]

I like your t hinking on the Puff match up Heinz. For that reason I totally agree on going to FoD. I also like FoD against peach for low % aerial strings into knee of the close side blast zones.
As of pokemon stadium, I definetly like it in general but I think battlefield may be better for falcon against jiggs with the extra platform for getting away and the generally less width of the stage.

 

[Deleted member]

FoD sounds terrible vs jiggs IMO

dreamland while bigger isn't as ******** to move around/ deal with b-air spam

 

[Beat!]

Where's your avatar????

 

[Deleted member]

getting a new one gunna think about it in class

 

[General Heinz]

FoD sounds terrible vs jiggs IMO

dreamland while bigger isn't as ******** to move around/ deal with b-air spam

that's true. I definitely don't think fountain is a GOOD stage vs. jiggs but in a counterpick situation it seems to me she's usually oscillating between DL or FoD and considering my recent track record on those two stages vs jiggs I've noticed I actually surprisingly do better on fountain than dreamland.

also if given the chance I'll definitely counterpick poke vs. jiggs but it seems like an autoban to me so yoshi's is probably my next go-to.

I don't know if this happens to you a lot s2j, but if you have a jiggs crouch-checking your grabs into rest a lot what do you do instead? if I'm afraid she's gonna predict the grab and just crouch rest me I've been going for stomp, but I'm trying to get more varied opinions on options vs. puff in general.

 

[Deleted member]

i have no idea what im doing vs jiggs i am scared for my life to even grab

if they crouch though and they are mid-high percents u can dash attack very underrated option in general

 

[KirbyKaze]

I like to dash attack vs Puff too

 

[Juggleguy]

Knee/stomp the crouch-happy Puffs and condition them to shield more, then you can start grabbing them.

 

[Divinokage]

Downwards ftilt or high Ftilt to stuff jumps.

 

[ShiftingShadows28]

I always forget about dash attack as an option...come to think of it, dash attack can be used to intercept spacy sideB onto stage sometimes.
Any other applications of dash attack across the match ups or in general situations?

 

[RFrizzle]

I use dash attack so much lol. I don't know what it's useful for but people don't tech it alot and you can combo dash attack->dash attack or dash attack->ftilt to get them off stage lol.

 

[General Heinz]

I always forget about dash attack as an option...come to think of it, dash attack can be used to intercept spacy sideB onto stage sometimes.
Any other applications of dash attack across the match ups or in general situations?

near the edge i sometimes have success with dash attack at mid to high percents > utilt because sometimes people will panic and just jump right away and run straight into it. works on fastfallers and probably like doc even. even if they don't jump i think in general utilt is pretty safe to go for just because of how fast it is.

 

[ShiftingShadows28]

I actually love going for that gimp Heinz, never thought about using dash attack to set it up, pretty neat.

 

[General Heinz]

Yeah it's a good setup and pretty safe too as long as you don't get punished for the dash attack in the first place, which is easy if you do it at the right percents. Utilt in general to me is one of falcon's best moves just because of its versatility.

 

[Brookman]

Up + B is GAME BREAKING for this character. S2J you need to take this as seriously as you can.

 

[Deleted member]

i dont need it

 

[Brookman]

it's OP. honestly.

it would be like KK saying he doesn't need grab with sheik.

 

[kyaputenfarukon07]

This ain't 64

where uair x6 --> upB OP

 

[Deleted member]

it's OP. honestly.

it would be like KK saying he doesn't need grab with sheik.

thinking about i can find a way to make it pretty useful offensively (if u miss u can edgecancel)

but using it offensively in 80% of cases looks stupid as phuck

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

tech chase under platforms with up-b.

ultimate reward.

 

[Wenbobular]

Except it has like 0 kill potential and even gives them their jump back
I do it when they're obviously sitting in shield though sometimes