Social C. Falcon Social

[Gahtzu]

powershielding lasers is SOOOO good against falcos, either it will discourage falco from using lasers or you will get free % if he keeps shooting himself like a *******. You win either way. Practice with a falco CPU and just run to the other side of the stage as he approaches u with standing lasers. Dashing into lasers makes them easier to powershield kind of since the timing is more in your hands-ish.

edit: u basically want to throw your shield up just as the laser is about to hit you

 

[iRobinhoood]

What level and handicap setup for maximum powershield lazer orgy?

 

[Gahtzu]

i dont remember i think 1 is straight and u dont rly need handicap

 

[iRobinhoood]

Yea sometimes the handicaps makes the CPU do certain things though. I'll try it.

 

[Deleted member]

Wise tip from s2j part 4

in about 80% of cases, it is just as effective/ better to do a ledge attack instead of rolling

1. If you are n00b and not sure if fox/falco can make it back or not, then get up attack will hit him (reverse/normally) on the chance they land on stage. This is better than rolling on like a noob then getting owned

2. If they try to up-b horizontally to grab edge/ side-b while you are on edge, pressing A is faster/easier then pressing L/ R in all the way, never get hit by a side-b/horizontal up-b and die like a noob

3. sometimes u want to roll if you are below 100% and you are forcing them to land on stage (marth/shiek), don't just ledge attack like a scrub think a little

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

when doing ledge attack against spacies, be careful. If the fire is going through your body it will hit you before there is a hitbox of your own. If they are going above you, you're fine and will likely reverse hit them. Personally, i like the strategy more against falcon/ganon recoveries since theres no chance of being hit and they can't sweetspot, but it does work vs other characters pretty well too

 

[Divinokage]

http://www.twitch.tv/styc/b/320181620

Any tips for my Falcon is appreciated. I know I need to fail less basic combos but other than that? I played Falcon vs Weon-X, Bam and Vwins at times.

 

[iRobinhoood]

in about 80% of cases, it is just as effective/ better to do a ledge attack instead of rolling

1. If you are n00b and not sure if fox/falco can make it back or not, then get up attack will hit him (reverse/normally) on the chance they land on stage. This is better than rolling on like a noob then getting owned

2. If they try to up-b horizontally to grab edge/ side-b while you are on edge, pressing A is faster/easier then pressing L/ R in all the way, never get hit by a side-b/horizontal up-b and die like a noob

3. sometimes u want to roll if you are below 100% and you are forcing them to land on stage (marth/shiek), don't just ledge attack like a scrub think a little

Ledge attack meaning a FF second jump aerial? Or a just hitting A for an attack while on the ledge?

BTW Kage doin da **** with Ganon on some Peach right now.

http://www.twitch.tv/styc/b/320181620

Any tips for my Falcon is appreciated. I know I need to fail less basic combos but other than that? I played Falcon vs Weon-X, Bam and Vwins at times.

Bam was doing work with the lasers. Tough to get around. Maybe discourage it powershields? I also noticed on a couple of occasions you dash attacked which Falco CC'd and you got punished for that. Toward the end of the match I noticed you started to over commit your attacks more which seemed to be enough to get past Falcos lasers.

But then again, I'm a n00b. Someone critique my critique

Just realized the link you provided wasn't live, I feel like a ******...

 

[Divinokage]

Lmao, it's definitely a recorded livestream. =P It's cool because you get to see the player's reaction while they are playing.. and ya I do look happy a lot. lol.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Oops got a spam infraction, I got lazy on the edit button =p But yea it was nice seeing your Falcon.

 

[Wenbobular]

Ledge attacking means hitting A, ledgehop attack doesn't even make sense in the context of hogging the ledge

Although I guess not everyone knows that the ledge attack hogs just as long as the roll

 

[iRobinhoood]

Although I guess not everyone knows that the ledge attack hogs just as long as the roll

My exact face right now:

 

[Wenbobular]

Haha ... the more you know I guess ...
It might even hog for a little longer, not sure ... but it's quite good if you're not sure about a space animal up-b

Secret technique - if they shorten their illusion a lot, a well timed getup attack can often hit them backward while hogging the ledge
Not sure how good Falcon's is at doing this and is obviously terrible when you're above 100, but it's still pretty cool I think

Actually you might be able to pull it off if you REALLY call them trying to illusion by doing it mad early

Kinda like how you can do the stand from the ledge mad early when you're above 100 and it'll work like the normal ledge stand if you time it right

 

[iRobinhoood]

Aren't there different times for when your below and above 100% damage? (I never really took notice to how long the attacks are.) Are you sure it's the same time as a roll from the edge?

 

[tarheeljks]

any timestamps on the falcon vids kage?

you got a spam infraction for double posting or what?

 

[Wenbobular]

Aren't there different times for when your below and above 100% damage? (I never really took notice to how long the attacks are.) Are you sure it's the same time as a roll from the edge?

Above 100 is a way longer animation ... you should have noticed it if you pay attention at all while you play <_<

Yes, I'm sure the ledge getup attack hogs for as long as the roll

 

[ZoSo]

Wenbo, is it your goal of the day to cram as many ellipses as you possibly can into every post?

 

[Wenbobular]

Wenbo, is it your goal of the day to cram as many ellipses and stupid smileys as you possibly can into every post?

Yes ~_~ ...

Does it bother you

 

[iRobinhoood]

So is the above 100 longer than the roll?

0% - 99% Ledge Attack < roll
100%+ Ledge Attack > roll

or

0% - 99% Ledge Attack = roll
100%+ Ledge Attack > roll

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

^ what?

 

[ShroudedOne]

Although I guess not everyone knows that the ledge attack hogs just as long as the roll

Whoa. My mind is blown. I guess it's true; you never stop learning. Thanks.

 

[Wolfy!]

Handy information to know. :D
Thanks Wenbo!

 

[Morin0]

Proper topic for stuff that's basic but not everyone knows it

(wish I can remember the actual thread's name, lol)

 

[iRobinhoood]

^ what?

Fixed, maybe.

 

[Wenbobular]

<_< ... I didn't think this was that mind boggling or I would've said something sooner, thought this was common knowledge

@robinhood
Just think of it as ledge attack = ledge roll in terms of hogging time

So the <100 ledge attack = <100 ledge roll, and >100 ledge attack = >100 ledge roll

Probably not exactly, but for our purposes they might as well be

Actually now that I look back at your post it sounds like you don't know this
Every getup option has a <100 and >100 animation, with the >100 animation being much slower (also hogs the ledge longer)
Obvious ledgehop attacks aren't affected because you're dropping from the ledge

Slightly related note - the >100 ledge stand is quite useful against Marth, you can stand at around the same time as you'd normally think to roll but you're in position to stomp -> knee him when he lands

 

[ryankam10]

get up attack edgeguards OP

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

[collapse=falcon ledge data]

Ledge stand <100%

Total: 32
Invincible: 1-22
-------------------------------------
Ledge stand 100%>

Total: 58
Invincible: 1-49
-------------------------------------
Ledge roll <100%

Total: 48
Invincible: 1-24
-------------------------------------
Ledge roll 100%>

Total: 78
Invincible: 1-54
-------------------------------------
Ledge attack <100%

Total: 54
Hit: 24-29
Invilnerable: 1-20
-------------------------------------
Ledge attack 100%>

Total: 68
Hit: 37-40
Invulnerable: 1-33

[/collapse]

To my knowledge, the character is considered to be holding the edge through their entire animation.

tl;dr 100+ > 0-99
roll > attack > stand

edit- actually, after reviewing the data, falcon's 0-99 attack is actually > roll

 

[iRobinhoood]

So where I'm getting at based on that data, is you would want to ledge attack when below 100% and roll when above %100 to gain the maximum ledge hog frames(given you were only trying to hold the ledge for as long as possible).

 

[Winston]

The frame difference for hogging is almost never that important. The important things to consider are whether the getup attack hitboxes will actually be useful to you vs. whether you are in danger of getting hit by the recovery (since the getup attack invincibility wears off long before the animation is over, so even though you are hogging the edge, if you get hit by the recovery you'll stop hogging it).

 

[Wenbobular]

in about 80% of cases, it is just as effective/ better to do a ledge attack instead of rolling

1. If you are n00b and not sure if fox/falco can make it back or not, then get up attack will hit him (reverse/normally) on the chance they land on stage. This is better than rolling on like a noob then getting owned

2. If they try to up-b horizontally to grab edge/ side-b while you are on edge, pressing A is faster/easier then pressing L/ R in all the way, never get hit by a side-b/horizontal up-b and die like a noob

3. sometimes u want to roll if you are below 100% and you are forcing them to land on stage (marth/shiek), don't just ledge attack like a scrub think a little

Just read this post again with the knowledge that getup attack hogs the ledge for as long as rolling does and you should get it <_<

 

[Juggleguy]

Yo, I totally told Johnny tip #1 about using ledge getup attack vs spacies up-B that might barely make it.

 

[It's me Q]

any timestamps on the falcon vids kage?

Wanna see some kage action..

Wanna see some kage action..

nm it's here http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=323391

 

[Windrose]

No. I don't think get up attack edge guards are optimal. It is a mediocre edge guard and only should be used when you aren't sure if the opponent will barely make it back on the stage.

The knock back on get up attack is not very high.





Edit:

More importantly. Let's discuss about sheik double jab instead of the usual single jab reset. Is this going to be a for falcons in the trend and problem in the future vs sheik? I'd love to hear what s2j and hax thinks

 

[Divinokage]

Again I'd love to hear anything about it, I want to make my Falcon even better.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I finally caught myself trying to improve my tech skill. I'm having trouble with L canceled knees. Just to be sure, it's short hop fast fall knee (hit lag) L cancel? Or is it short hop knee fast fall L cancel?



Also, for those who L cancel with R do you use your index or middle finger to do so?

 

[Wolfy!]

I would also like some insight into what to do against Sheik's double jab shenanigans. It usually doesn't give me much trouble when they jab reset me because I can pop out with SDI, but double jab looks threatening.

 

[kyaputenfarukon07]

Or they can just tech chase you to death

 

[Divinokage]

Then you can probably just do 2 SDIs motion when you get hit so even if the 2nd jab doesn't come out, you are still safe. But then if you expect an attack after the first jab then umm.. I'm not sure what Falcon can do to counter attack sheik that close.. gentleman? Run away? lol. Shield an attack to something oos depending on what she threw?

 

[Wolfy!]

Sheik's second jab comes out pretty fast, so I'm not sure if Falcon can actually do anything before he gets hit with the second jab after he SDI's the first jab. If Falcon could pop out and shield before the second jab comes out while he's at low percents, that wouldn't be a problem. At higher percents, he might be able to pop out of Sheik's range on an SDI'd jab quick enough to escape the second jab, but again, I'm not sure since I haven't done extensive testing on it yet.

I'm thinking maybe Falcon could jab before Sheik could grab him after a double jab. But again, I haven't tested it, so I'm not sure if that would work.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I feel like when I Hit this handicap 9 bowser in the head with a knee I cant hit the L cancel but when I hit him from the neck down I can nail the L cancel.