FinClauzel
Fin
I have been playing this game competitively for 14 weeks now, and I'm still having trouble beating playstyles like this. Would anyone please help me? I would appreciate it.
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Campy Playstyles
- Thread starter FinClauzel
- Start date
Poodle
Smash Rookie
Granted, I am as inexperienced as you so grain of salt.
IMO you did to much air dodging to avoid laser (maybe those were flubbed wavelands?). A lot of the SHLasers could've been crouched under. GDub gets LOW. Bucketing -> instant release is an option to stuff some approaches.
PS this post doesn't need its own thread. Posting this under the Video thread will serve you better.
IMO you did to much air dodging to avoid laser (maybe those were flubbed wavelands?). A lot of the SHLasers could've been crouched under. GDub gets LOW. Bucketing -> instant release is an option to stuff some approaches.
PS this post doesn't need its own thread. Posting this under the Video thread will serve you better.
FinClauzel
Fin
Thank you. They were flubbed wavelands, and I knew I could have used my down b's. I just got really, really salty by his playstyle, and all I want to know is how to counter that playstyle. I'm more of a aggressive player, and I like moving all over the place. When someone approaches me and I can't do what I want to do, it gets me so mad, I just start to have a mental breakdown.
Maestro_
Court Composer
That's not camping. He's just shooting a lot of lasers. Jump over them or shield. If he does it that close to you, like he was, simply jump over the laser and punish the end lag.
Also some other general critiques... You can go a lot deeper to edgeguard with GnW because his recovery's so good. There were a lot of times when you could simply jump out there and Nair him. Speaking of his recovery, try and save your jump till after your Up-B when recovering more often.
Also some other general critiques... You can go a lot deeper to edgeguard with GnW because his recovery's so good. There were a lot of times when you could simply jump out there and Nair him. Speaking of his recovery, try and save your jump till after your Up-B when recovering more often.
Metmetm3t
Smash Lord
I don't think you should be too quick to categorize yourself as an "aggressive" player. A lot of new players make this mistake and it really isn't conducive to getting better. You are labeling yourself as something that doesn't really exist.
If there is any truth to your opinion on yourself it's that you swing a lot of punches. You are throwing out a lot of moves, but you are swinging at ghosts. Rewatch your match and pay close attention to how much you just miss. It's because you have this assumption in your head that the bad guys are gonna come to you, which is understandable because many low level players do. Especially CPU's will always approach you and they do if fairly directly. This wolf player didn't "camp" he just played a more solid punish game, and you gave it to him. You swung at nothing expecting him to come in and he just delayed long enough to punish that.
There are plenty of technical errors and mental mistakes that I could also point out, but for the most part you'll be able to pick up those on your own and work them out with practice. It's this part of you game that I think you should put some extra effort into. The next time you play against some bots, or a friend, try and practice restraint. Especially when you get in one of those scrappy situations where they are just out of range and you think they might come forward. Wavedash or dash back/forward and wait to see if they really do.
One last reminder: there is no reason to create a thread for this conversation. We have a QnA thread where you can ask questions just like this.
If there is any truth to your opinion on yourself it's that you swing a lot of punches. You are throwing out a lot of moves, but you are swinging at ghosts. Rewatch your match and pay close attention to how much you just miss. It's because you have this assumption in your head that the bad guys are gonna come to you, which is understandable because many low level players do. Especially CPU's will always approach you and they do if fairly directly. This wolf player didn't "camp" he just played a more solid punish game, and you gave it to him. You swung at nothing expecting him to come in and he just delayed long enough to punish that.
There are plenty of technical errors and mental mistakes that I could also point out, but for the most part you'll be able to pick up those on your own and work them out with practice. It's this part of you game that I think you should put some extra effort into. The next time you play against some bots, or a friend, try and practice restraint. Especially when you get in one of those scrappy situations where they are just out of range and you think they might come forward. Wavedash or dash back/forward and wait to see if they really do.
One last reminder: there is no reason to create a thread for this conversation. We have a QnA thread where you can ask questions just like this.
FinClauzel
Fin
My mindset is really, really bad. When I get punished over and over again from something I should have adapted to a long time ago, I start to play very, very poorly. I start to do things I wouldn't normally do.
For example, if marth does his fthrow to fsmash combo over and over again, I start to give up on myself because I should be adapting to what the other player is doing. If a combo like that kills me 2-3 times, thats when I don't put in any effort due to the fact that I'm a wuss that way.
To be honest, I have no idea how to adapt because I've been playing against cpus casually for a long, long time. People tell me it comes with time, but I don't ever believe them because if the same thing happens to me over and over again, you would think I wouldn't fall for it again, but I do. Then I feel like I'm unable to win due to my lack of adapting, and then I feel like the game is out to get me.
... I'm probably sounding like a complete and absolute suck up right now, but thats my mindset when I play videogames in general.
Also, I didn't know that there was a thread I could have used instead of making one. I'm still new to smashboards, so I apologize for my ridiculous ignorance. I honestly didn't know.
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Fortress
Smash Master
Projectiles (and camping, to a much lesser extent) in any fight game you play have one purpose above any else they serve: force a reaction from you without risk of giving up position. Your opponent is going to get a reaction out of you, and it's up to you to pick the right one for the situation at hand.
Ask yourself these questions when dealing with heavy projectile play or a campy/defensive playstyle from your opponent.
Blocking: Are you at risk of being grabbed if you block? Speaking of, how solid is your powershield game? Are your out-of-shield options going to be able to prevent any sort of approaches on your defense? Does your opponent want you to turtle in so they can gain a positional advantage?
Moving: If I don't want to block, can I move anywhere? Does moving in itself present any risk (opponent having superior anti-air/air-to-air moves, and/or better air movement in general)? Does where I move to put me at risk? Can I move anywhere that would give me the advantage?
Offense: What options do I have that beat out projectiles? Do I have a reflector, a passive shield, or attacks that eat up/evade projectiles? Can I take advantage of my opponent's overzealous use of them? He always fires off a laser once I'm at x distance away from him, what if I go there on purpose, and bait out a laser, using that small window of time to my advantage?
Blocking, moving, and attacking are your three go-to responses when it comes to projectiles being thrown your way. How you deal with them will depend on the character matchup, and beyond that player-to-player matchup experience. Once you figure out their habits, it'll become easier and easier to use their reliance on them to your advantage. One of the first things I needed to learn about Link's 'rang, is that I had a terrible habit of throwing it once I got a certain distance away from my opponent. My opponent would figure this out, go to that distance, and I would just automatically throw one out, being left without my 'rang for a short time and leaving an opening in my defenses.
Remember that most projectiles cover approaches for the player using them (think slow-moving projectiles like the 'rang, razor leaf, a missile, or Wolf's laser), and figuring out what your opponent does immediately after firing one should be your priority. If they fire off a laser and immediately act without you making a response, they don't cover all of the possible options you could've picked. Your opponent will also be fishing for a poor reaction on your part, so when you do react, make sure you know why, and what it means for your opponent, and what options you'll have at your disposal once you've committed to your response.
I had the same attitude with this game and my own approach to it, and my only advice to that is to get over yourself. The sooner the better, trust me. I would've been able to improve so much more quickly if I had. I've broken at least four controllers over my own poor performance and not being able to hold up to my own standards, and it's unfair to expect yourself to constantly be on top of things. Use all of this **** as a learning experience, and give yourself a goal to reach. "Oh, I'm getting beaten out by Wolf's laser so much, but I'm going to start trying these three options against it until I figure out which one works". Once you've overcome one small obstacle in your play, it's going to open up a lot more opportunities for you.
Start keeping a journal, along with these recordings of your games. Ask yourself the hard questions, "what am I losing the neutral game to?" Start examining when you leave the neutral state of the game, and why. If you find that your opponent gains the upper hand on you because of the same thing each time, then the answers will present themselves.
Click on me, and bookmark this thread.
You will go to this thread each time you get frustrated with this game, and it will ask all of the hard questions for you (why am I losing, what am I losing to, how do I get on the right track). Each time you run into a roadblock, refer to that thread, and you'll present yourself with the tools to deal with it.
Ask yourself these questions when dealing with heavy projectile play or a campy/defensive playstyle from your opponent.
Blocking: Are you at risk of being grabbed if you block? Speaking of, how solid is your powershield game? Are your out-of-shield options going to be able to prevent any sort of approaches on your defense? Does your opponent want you to turtle in so they can gain a positional advantage?
Moving: If I don't want to block, can I move anywhere? Does moving in itself present any risk (opponent having superior anti-air/air-to-air moves, and/or better air movement in general)? Does where I move to put me at risk? Can I move anywhere that would give me the advantage?
Offense: What options do I have that beat out projectiles? Do I have a reflector, a passive shield, or attacks that eat up/evade projectiles? Can I take advantage of my opponent's overzealous use of them? He always fires off a laser once I'm at x distance away from him, what if I go there on purpose, and bait out a laser, using that small window of time to my advantage?
Blocking, moving, and attacking are your three go-to responses when it comes to projectiles being thrown your way. How you deal with them will depend on the character matchup, and beyond that player-to-player matchup experience. Once you figure out their habits, it'll become easier and easier to use their reliance on them to your advantage. One of the first things I needed to learn about Link's 'rang, is that I had a terrible habit of throwing it once I got a certain distance away from my opponent. My opponent would figure this out, go to that distance, and I would just automatically throw one out, being left without my 'rang for a short time and leaving an opening in my defenses.
Remember that most projectiles cover approaches for the player using them (think slow-moving projectiles like the 'rang, razor leaf, a missile, or Wolf's laser), and figuring out what your opponent does immediately after firing one should be your priority. If they fire off a laser and immediately act without you making a response, they don't cover all of the possible options you could've picked. Your opponent will also be fishing for a poor reaction on your part, so when you do react, make sure you know why, and what it means for your opponent, and what options you'll have at your disposal once you've committed to your response.
I had the same attitude with this game and my own approach to it, and my only advice to that is to get over yourself. The sooner the better, trust me. I would've been able to improve so much more quickly if I had. I've broken at least four controllers over my own poor performance and not being able to hold up to my own standards, and it's unfair to expect yourself to constantly be on top of things. Use all of this **** as a learning experience, and give yourself a goal to reach. "Oh, I'm getting beaten out by Wolf's laser so much, but I'm going to start trying these three options against it until I figure out which one works". Once you've overcome one small obstacle in your play, it's going to open up a lot more opportunities for you.
Start keeping a journal, along with these recordings of your games. Ask yourself the hard questions, "what am I losing the neutral game to?" Start examining when you leave the neutral state of the game, and why. If you find that your opponent gains the upper hand on you because of the same thing each time, then the answers will present themselves.
Click on me, and bookmark this thread.
You will go to this thread each time you get frustrated with this game, and it will ask all of the hard questions for you (why am I losing, what am I losing to, how do I get on the right track). Each time you run into a roadblock, refer to that thread, and you'll present yourself with the tools to deal with it.
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