can i has advice please?

[GofG]

I can't beat fox. I can't even approach on a fox. Every time I get an upthrow, I misread the DI and don't get the upair.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0myiHpzzY9U&feature=related

What the hell do I do? Also, ignore the SD, that was just me being dumb.

EDIT: Actually ignore both SDs.

 

[GofG]

Oh right, I forgot!

This is the Melee forums!

There's no way I'll ever get a response.

 

[otg]

I mean .... it's not the Melee forums fault. It's the Ness forums fault, cause no one plays him and no one gives a ****. If I knew anything practical about Ness I'd throw out advice, but I don't so I won't.

Maybe just vary up your approaches by DDing around a lot, and mixing up between DJC Fairs, SH Fairs and even Dash attack. To my knowledge those are Ness's only legitimate approaches. You can connect a DJC Fair -> Fsmash at certain percents on a lot of characters. Don't know em off the top of my head, sometimes you just gotta flow.

 

[ranmaru]

Is it good to DJC with the Control stick? I find it much easier to DJC with it. :3

Oh, remember that your upsmash and downsmash aren't really smashes, mostly just extra tilts. Neutral A has great knockback, practice the PKT2 (when you hit yourself with the upB) because its the best thing you have. Don't approach with Dair, its too laggy, his best killing moves are back throw and bair (when you hit with the sweet spot). Also, people might get scared when they see the bair, because its so sparkly. His Uair is so awesome to juggle, I love it. Also, I think the upsmash and downsmash is good for juggling too, if you hit them with it, its a bit weird to get used too.

Try using the PKT as a projectile, when you are grounded, but don't use it too much. Its up to you to tell if its time to stop PKTing. Of course, side smash is great, just try to hit with the tip. Wanna try Meteor Smash? Its not that good, but at least he has one. Also, try spamming dtilt a bit, but not too much. :3

I second Ness, but sadly I'm not as good with Ness as I am with Doc. Ness rocks though. I might just change my username because of him.

EDIT: Oh, you probaly obviously know all that... Well, don't use downB, its a waste of time. Everytime you tryed to do it it was too late, fox's laser is too fast.

According to the super long ness guide, the best way to get a combo on fox is to upthrow and djc Uair or fair if they DI'd. :3

 

[thesage]

I haven't watched the vid yet so here's my pre-vid advice for what you said.

The djc up air combos on fastfallers takes a lot of practice before you actually can do it in a tournament. I did it by practicing in training mode. I got to the point where I could do it consistently. Unfortunately brawl has robbed me of my skills (though if I practiced for like 2 week I could get some of my tech skill back, I had no mindgames in melee at all).

Until you get it down, Ness can chainthrow fastfallers at some percents. Forgot which though. I never actually memorized the percents but just looked at how far they flew in a match to get what to do.

Watched the vid:

Uh you really only got two uthrows. You don't djc fast enough. Just practice it. What else can I say? lol

Did you ever notice you spam fair waaay too much? It's good, but it's not that helpful against a character (like fox) who has quick aerials. Nair is better in this situation.

Learn how to edgeguard fox. What was with that dj -> nothing edgeguard. You could've just edgehooged him. Pk flash can also be used against fox's recovery.

Don't try to psi magnet lasers. In fact, don't try to camp fox at all.

Don't use pk fire so much. It's ok (I guess) but don't.

If the opponent is over 150 always b-throw. At worst it sets up for edgeguarding.

All the fox player did was spam aerials. You were both using the same attacks over and over in the same situations. Try to mix it up more.

Edit: don't rely on bat for your kills so much. Bair is a much safer option IMO. It's helpful against Fox (for me at least).

 

[Levitas]

Ok, I watched the first half. It's obvious that you had pretty much given up with whatever your normal strat was by halfway in. I saw a lot of SH fair, and that's good. You're not using it quite right, though. Fair is for when you have the opponent cornered so they have to get through you or to defend against Fox's nair or dair approach.

When you approach, use more mixups. Foxy knows when you're on the ground at that one spacing that you WILL use a dash attack aimed for the last spark to hit him. He will invariably shield it. Use this to your advantage. Fake an approach and just before you get in range of his grab, WD back and do whatever you want. Possibilities include fsmash and DJC dair to Bair, depending on the WD's length.

On edgeguarding: If you can force a recovery from level with/below the stage, you should get the stock pretty much every time. A sweetspot attempt can be stopped with a dtilt, and fsmash will KO the fox who now has to use a vertical foxfire.

As far as the grabs go, sage is correct. You do have the option of chainthrowing with Ness's uthrow, but I've really only seen Angrylobster do it.

 

[thesage]

It's cuz most people go for the djc combos which they screw up. Very few people are actually able to do them for some reason.

 

[GofG]

So how do I deal with shield pressure? I can't figure it out. Drillshine after drillshine aauugghh, eventually I just end up whiffing a shield grab and getting shined. What am I supposed to do?

Edit: Also, I've been in the habit of overusing PK Fire ever since I Ness dittoed with toasty and darksyde yelled at us because all we were doing was spacing dash attack very well and clanking, for like 8 minutes straight, and he wanted to play, and Toasty didn't quite know how to deal with PK Fire, so I started using it.

 

[Levitas]

You have a window to shieldgrab after a shine and a window to WD oos after the shine.

Note that if you go for a grab on the fox shining you, they can counter this by drill multishining (**** you scotu), and that Ness's grab range will often not be enough. If they chase your WD back, a utilt to bair should work well.

 

[ranmaru]

It's cuz most people go for the djc combos which they screw up. Very few people are actually able to do them for some reason.

Is it good to DjC with the control stick? I find it much easier than trying to use X or Y.

 

[Levitas]

It's easier to DJC uair with the control stick. I use XX for everything else.

 

[thesage]

I use XY for everything except uairs (i use the control stick for that)

I used to do up x z lol.

 

[Levitas]

You and your unbridled masculinity, sage.

 

[bahamutz69]

i dont see how u ppl use x

 

[thesage]

You and your unbridled masculinity, sage.

I'm so masculine I actually have XYYYYYY and I'm not ********.

 

[toasty]

Foxy knows when you're on the ground at that one spacing that you WILL use a dash attack aimed for the last spark to hit him. He will invariably shield it.

While this can be true of a lot of players, eventually smarter players will simply crouch cancel it and procede to **** you. It's better as a tech chaser [note, dash attack is still a great approach, but nothing you should ever spam without mixing in the fakeouts]. Even so, Levi gave some sound advice...

As far as the grabs go, sage is correct. You do have the option of chainthrowing with Ness's uthrow, but I've really only seen Angrylobster do it.

really? You guys need to sharpen up you can chaingrab all fast fallers from 0 with 3 uthrows. simply uthrow, normal run [nothing fancy needed], jump-cancel Grab. With the second grab, pummel once, with the third grab, pummel a couple times, and when you follow up with the DJC-uairs, I suggest RUNNING to where he is first and THEN DJC-ing the uair(s). It takes a long time to really nail down the execution of the zero-to-death, but it's worth all the stocks lost in attempting/learning it once you finally get it =D [Falco is the easiest to 0-Death out of the fast fallers because of his ****ty recovery...uthrow-uthrow-uthrow-DJCuair-DJCuair-DJCuair-DJ(C?)bair-edgehog/guard]

So how do I deal with shield pressure? I can't figure it out. Drillshine after drillshine aauugghh, eventually I just end up whiffing a shield grab and getting shined. What am I supposed to do?

learn to bait the Fox...actually a lot of Ness's game on a high level relies all-too-much on baiting and then punishing/capitalizing on an opportunity. But you gotta figure out how to set those up with respect to your preferred playstyle...it's all about mindgames [and spacing, of course...but with low/bottom tiers you need top tier mindgames in order to survive.]

Toasty didn't quite know how to deal with PK Fire, so I started using it.

lmao QFT...Ness is one of my worst matchups simply because I have no idea how to DI anything in his moveset [except for survival DI, but that's always obvious]. Those dittos were fun

sorry if any of the stuff I said seems disjointed or incoherent, I'm at work and writing lil bits every now and then, and no time to proofread.

 

[thesage]

You also apparently can't DI against Peach lol. Edrees also replaced you as the token brown guy who plays Ness (in brawl).

 

[toasty]

hahaha man I totally forgot how to play against Peach because the only Melee I've been playing much has been against a Falcon/Ganon/Marth/Kirby players >_> Those friendlies at Chu's were good though

 

[thesage]

JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHNS. Those friendlies at Chu's were good though

lol j/k

10fakedouches

I had good games too. All you have to do against Peach is spam nair (with Marth at least) and don't let her get the turnips.

 

[toasty]

haha good call XfD

I just wanted to be flashy ;__;

 

[thesage]

Getting hit by turnips isn't flashy =P

Ok I'll stop now. Make nachos next time you come up.

 

[Jboy313]

double jump cancel your fair and at 0% down air ***** him.
and you can try chaingrabing him with down throw. right after the throw wavedash under him when he di's
then do down tilt to cancel lag then grab again..or just forget the down tilt and grab him from the air to prevent teching.

 

[The Phenom]

cool =) a Ness vid. Sorry I can't help much but it's true that upthrow to upair combos fox.