cancel ANY move out of shield punishes before opponent is out of lag

[Milos]

Ok I recently posted a thread with a video of me jump-cancelling my shield with an up tilt. yesterday my friend jump cancelled his shield with a forward smash. It seems as if though it's a tight timing, you can jump cancel your shield into any move.

Reasons why this is important:

• Takes away the problem of shield grab spams
• Removes limits of moves to do out of shield
• Creates wider gap between competetive and casual due to hard timing
• Advances the metagame even further

This game is just getting better.

 

[Lovage 805]

sounds awesome, need more videos

 

[Surgo]

Forgive my naivety, but how does this stop shield grab spammers?

 

[DragonBlade]

Do you attack instantly out of shield or do you have to wait for the shield to release first?

 

[Cebo]

Forgive my naivety, but how does this stop shield grab spammers?

I'd say careful spacing of aerials, or using moves with high shield stun to avoid being grabbed.

 

[TK Wolf]

That's really cool... wow, so you can even jump cancel into a d-tilt?

Once you get the timing down, can you post a video of this in action? Thanks!

 

[Egret]

Yet another thing everyone but Yoshi can do, poor Yoshi.

 

[Milos]

Yeah this coming weekend we're going to clock in a lot of hours devoted to this tactic.

Here's the video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=1A9Rn4kOr6s

it happens at 0:10

 

[0RLY]

Nice! Looks very useful Remember to try jump canceling special attacks as well. Samus shooting charge shot out of a shield ftw!

 

[zPhoenixExz]

Takes away the problem of shield grab spams
Creates wider gap between competetive and casual due to hard timing

A bit confused about these two...how does the first one work, and why is the second one important?...

 

[Milos]

yeah definitely we're going to test entiremovesets. maybe in practice mode with 1/4 speed.

 

[Zevox]

Okay, could someone please explain to me what a "jump cancel out of shield" move is? The name is confusing, and I couldn't figure it out from that video either.

Zevox

 

[Milos]

A bit confused about these two...how does the first one work, and why is the second one important?...

There's more options out of shield and that means people won't even have to grab. without chaingrabs, there are moves that are more important anyway. And competitive brawl is very important....

 

[Milos]

Okay, could someone please explain to me what a "jump cancel out of shield" move is? The name is confusing, and I couldn't figure it out from that video either.

Zevox

When you have your shield up you can jump and instantly get out of it with no lag. In melee and 64, you could use this to do either an up smash or an up B. In Brawl you can do any move in between the airborne frames and the shield disappearing.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Okay, could someone please explain to me what a "jump cancel out of shield" move is? The name is confusing, and I couldn't figure it out from that video either.

Zevox

You can cancel your shield with a jump.

You can cancel the opening animation of the jump with... any attack apparently.

 

[sesshomaru]

very nice find, first advanced tactic ive read thats worth a **** in a real battle situation. kirbys up b cutter ftw?!!? madness.

 

[Surgo]

There's more options out of shield and that means people won't even have to grab. without chaingrabs, there are moves that are more important anyway. And competitive brawl is very important....

Ahh, I see. I thought you were referring to an attacker advantage, not something to be done instead of a shield grab. Thus leaving me awfully confused.

 

[gangstajuice02]

coooooooooool!!

 

[Micahc]

very nice find, first advanced tactic ive read thats worth a **** in a real battle situation. kirbys up b cutter ftw?!!? madness.

You could do up-bs out of shield in Melee too...

 

[Pyr0]

You could do up-bs out of shield in Melee too...

who cares about Up+b we can do Dsmashes now!

 

[Takeshi245]

This is a great discovery. Now I have more options to do out of shield. Thanks, Milos.

 

[timbers92]

I'm in trouble. I had the habit of shield grabbing a lot in melee. This game's gonna be awesome to finally play.

 

[CO18]

Wow this is such an amazing find.

This should be the most discussed topic on the board right now IMO.

Great Work man. I just keep getting more excited for Brawl.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Time to come up with a control scheme to take advantage of this.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Off the top of my head, I'm drooling over the possibilities of:
Lucario up tilts
Ganon Side B
Koopa Klaw
Mario Down Smash
Luigi Tornado
Ness/Lucas Fsmashes
Wolf Fsmashes/Down Smashes
Samus Down Smash
Snake C4 tag

from a shield...

 

[DragonBlade]

Ok, I just tried this in training mode and I watched that video. I don't mean to burst your bubble but there doesn't seem to be anything special about it. There are fewer frames between going from shielding to the default position in brawl, so its easy to release the shield and attack shortly after. The video looks like its the same speed as letting go of shield and pressing up tilt immediately after. Its still useful, but I don't think jump cancel has anything to do with it.

 

[Foe]

I'm ********. After reading every post I still don't get it. So like if you have a shield up and you jump and then press like a you get no lag? Or is it like for aerials you get no lag? I don't know why I don't get it. Someone please explain in ****** terms.

 

[Wardub]

This is good news if it's true. I would like to see a comparison between a jump cancel and a non jump cancel, preferably at 1/4 speed, because DragonBlade is saying it isn't any faster. I also heard Pikachu's Dsmash is really good, I'd like to see that.

 

[SiegKnight]

I actually couldn't come up with anything that didn't show the jump first, the exact ammount of frames I'm meant to be nailing this in by at the start of a jump would be nice, but there was one occaision I noticed a nice speed up step. Letting go of shield is pretty quick.

I've been skeptical of alot of 'ATs' people have been making here since I discovered that rukario shffl dair from a quick jump myself and when I looked at the thread, they spoke of it as if it were sacred ground when, uh~ It seemed pretty obvious to me - and many of its uses too.

But I digress.

 

[Blatherskite]

Is this even a good thing? The last thing this game needed was to be even more defensive oriented. Now instead of eating a harmless grab, we're going to get f-smashed in the face for even trying to approach.

 

[CO18]

Yeah someone needs to compare the frames at 1/4 speed to see how much faster it as then without Jump Canceling, but regardless im quite sure its faster and any bit of an advantage is helpful.

 

[Pyr0]

You could do up-bs out of shield in Melee too...

who cares about Up+b we can do Dsmashes now!

 

[Itakio]

Time to come up with a control scheme to take advantage of this.

Simple. Use R/L to jump, then you can have a finger on the C-stick/B button as well.

 

[SiegKnight]

Are you even sure it exists? I have training on 1/4 with falcon as I speak and I keep trying to get an opening jump gap where it cancels the start of his leap into, say, a falcon punch, and theres jack there. If I do do it, chances are I hit b before the jump in a desperate attempt to find a frame window I may have missed even though I'm sure I hit most of them.

Can there be video proof of this done consistently as well as comparisonsm, and practical setups with it too? The OP is speaking of like, two occaisions that were likely mid match anyway and I'm pretty sure not many here have brawl imported or else we'd have had more than one success story.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

I'm SURE it's going to be at least a few frames faster. From the transition of shield to standing, there is a small "blip" animation where the shield goes away and the character lowers their arms. Jumping from a shield takes a 1-frame transition from shield to "from ground to air" animation, which could then be technically canceled by any attack within one more frame.

This means that the fastest you can attack out of a shield would be 1-2 frames, and it probably takes 6 or 7 frames to drop the shield.

 

[SiegKnight]

Its a ****ing 1 frame gap? Holy ****. There are competetive fighting games out there that most consider higher level than at least Brawl - perhaps not Melee - and 1 frame links are considered impractical unless applied to one move.

Man, its nice to have a skill gap if this is usable with any level of consistency for almost all occaisions.

 

[Eclipsing Binary]

Are you sure you jump canceled the shield? Since you powershielded the attack, are you sure it wasn't just the reduced shieldstun that allowed you to perform the up-tilt so quickly?

 

[Kyuusoku]

Who was it that said brawl was going to be less technical?... so far its not looking that way.

 

[aho43]

im pretty sure you just dropped your shield and utilted quickly in that video. just like whoever else posted that before me. if you watch closely you can see the shield drop animation. that doesnt happen when you do moves like upB + upsmash out of shield.

Just to make it clear: YOU CAN'T JUMP CANCEL ANY ATTACK. Before this thread fills up with n00bs being like omg rox0rs.

 

[SynikaL]

im pretty sure you just dropped your shield and utilted quickly in that video. just like whoever else posted that before me. if you watch closely you can see the shield drop animation. that doesnt happen when you do moves like upB + upsmash out of shield.

Just to make it clear: YOU CAN'T JUMP CANCEL ANY ATTACK. Before this thread fills up with n00bs being like omg rox0rs.

Bingo.


You can do many things out of shield -- a jump cancel this is not. It's not very fast either -- it's more like a buffer in its timing if anything, hurting its practical utility.


-Syn