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Official Captain Falcon Video Critique Thread

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
Stomp is pretty strong and can't be CCed
Also leads to the best punish (you can usually get a double knee out of any stomp that launches non-fastfaller types)
 

0Room

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
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Location
Boone, NC
Landing a stomp on the back of their shield is so good
The only option they have is bair OoS

But you can cancel that with shield yourself
Which then they can pivot grab
So then you just buffer roll

But yeah a lot of people don't think of that that much
So stomp on the back of their shield->run away->DD->grab
So good
 

ryankam10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
279
I just realized watching top level players duking it out is pretty much 100% useless for learning purposes. It's much better (as far as improving your game is concerned) to watch videos of Falcon basically getting his *** handed to him. e.g. Rocky vs IVP are two good vids to watch to learn how to play against Fox... Watching vids like that pretty much is a clear demonstration of what advantages Fox has over Falcon and then the next step is to analyze Rocky's gameplay in those vids and see how he could have played differently to beat the fox.

TLDR High level players play totally different than scrubs or even half-decent players! They play in what seems to be a scrubby style but thats because they know how good they are and they basically 'skip past' all the hard **** we're trying to figure out how to beat!
 

_Rocky_

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 14, 2009
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611
There might be another good set of me getting destroyed by a spacy on youtube soon.
Prior to beast 2 I had a habit of getting brutally ****ed up by one of the better foxes/falcos at the tourney LOL
 

Citizen Snips

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 9, 2010
Messages
475
Location
Yardley PA
Alright, critique me!

Issues that I've fixed since these recordings:
Dairing repeatedly through platforms in the hopes that it will work.
Wasting my double jump against Marf's utilt.
Anything involving raptor boost.
****ing up every read I do against Falco.

Not using standard Falcon color.

Citizen Snips vs Inty (Marf)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEnztTP6MJo

Citizen Snips vs. Pyro (Roy)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcBT0ICoFfg

Citizen Snips vs. ShroudedOne(Peach)/anub(Falco)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CwvMIEZCavg#t=288s

Thanks in advance!
 

ryankam10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
279
I like the long dash dances. dont see that very often but it seems to be effective against the marth. also very nice movement on the platforms with wavelands and such. it keeps your movement to get away from the u-tilts a little less predictable, which is always good

also could work on ledgeguarding, maybe try refreshing invincibility frames instead of going the backair. in general ledge hogging more, although i dont know this marth maybe he really knows how to avoid that
 

Citizen Snips

Smash Journeyman
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Aug 9, 2010
Messages
475
Location
Yardley PA
in general ledge hogging more, although i dont know this marth maybe he really knows how to avoid that
Lol, nope, I just suck **** at ledgeguarding.

I didn't start doing it until about a month ago, so I'm still getting comfortable with some of the timings on my refresh as well as the invincibility duration.

Thanks for the advice though!
 

ryankam10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
279
your falcon seems to actually be quite good :o you dont run into **** randomly, your spacing is ok and you know when to throw out aerials, you dont spam them mindlessly into marth utilts that often, which is very good. (y)
 

0Room

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
1,953
Location
Boone, NC
Raptor boost is actually fairly good against Marth once he commits to something [usually nair]
Just remember if that sword is between you and him, nothing you do is going to work.

But I think your problem against Marth needs an outside look.
Your problems that you mentioned are these, but the bigger problem is this
"Stomping repeatedly through platforms"}-
l
} Being above Marth
l
"Wasting my Double Jump on Marth's utilt"}

You liked to stay above Marth, an that's an issue. CF has a great vertical move, the stomp, but again, Marth has some great up centered attacks. Uair and utilt will wreck you, and unfortunately, he just kept you up there using those attacks. You're going to have to find a way down, either with SH then FF through the platforms, or running and falling off of platforms horizontally, shield dropping [moving and shield dropping is really good], Isai dropping, or shielding and moving your shield towards the edge of the platform so that when they hit the shield you'll fall off, where you can then DJ/use a move

So as you can tell there are multiple ways of getting off the platform
It's just the point that you have to get off the platform
I feel like that's your biggest issue.

Against Roy, CC is your friend
Like
The kind of friend that loves you for you
And has $19273043270414132
And lets you drive his Ferrari when you have a first date
That being said, you did a good job of that, just remember that CC is amazing

On top of that, Roy is VERY similar to Sheik in weight, so any kind of combos that work on Sheik work on Roy
Most importantly, that means that at 80%, you can uthrow->knee
We both know Roy has a ****ty *** recovery
So doing that then grabbing the ledge is like
A free stock

One of the things to remember with low tier character players is that
They can't compete with you on a straight up manner, which means that a lot of the times, low tier players will make traps.
They'll have you misspace, and then punish you for it. Which is great for them, because once they do hit you, it's really easy to continue the combo.
However, you are the most mobile character in the game. Which means that you can run in, spring the trap, and leave. Then suddenly, you're the one punishing.
This will be referenced later in the post.

With Peach, two things
1) Throw->knee only starts working at two very specific percents
uthrow->knee at 40% ONLY if they're not paying attention
And dthrow->knee 70%+

Any other time and nair/uair is better
However, luckily you can most of the time easily combo into knee off those two attacks

After dthrowing after that percent, you have two options
They're either going to DI up, and you'll have to fullhop
or DI down and dash into a SH knee

Discerning between these two is very important

2) Rushing down a Peach is really good
She can't deal with your movement, or your dair, or your knee. She can't CC those, and keeping in her face so that she can't get stage control or grab turnips will absolutely wreck her playstyle. Keeping on her is probably the best thing you can do.
You left a lot of space between you two.

[Also how do you do perfect gentlemans EVERY TIME
You have to be playing PAL there's just no other answer
]

Against Falco you've got to stay close so that they can't laser
But mostly the reason you lost is because of non match up issues

Things you should work on
1) Movement
Your movement is really choppy, and a lot of times you just kind of throw out moves really slowly because you're not moving
So your opponent has time to see what you're doing
But you need to increase movement so that you can

2) Play more confidently
A lot of times CF wins games by keeping pressure and getting that momentum
And doing that is an extension of your pressure
And you can't pressure unless you're up there and confident about hitting them
Does that make sense? A lot of CF's match ups are made much easier by being close enough to punish things, so that you can do so. You left a lot of space between you and your enemy because you were afraid of getting comboed.
Practice your anti combo Di, Smash DI, and teching, and you can get over that fear.

So by using your movement to suffocate theirs, you can play confidently, and keep that pressure on.
Make sense? So try that and see where it takes you.
 

Citizen Snips

Smash Journeyman
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Aug 9, 2010
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Yardley PA
I'll respond to the full post in a bit (supposed to be studying right now :p), but on the topic of gentleman:
I just hold a on the third press and release as soon as it doesn't do the super gentleman. I screw it up sometimes, but I learned it pretty quick. I've only been playing Falcon for like... 6 months now? Maybe 7? So it doesn't take that long to learn, and I never set aside any practice time solely to work on my gentleman.
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
Haha Roy advice ... not like he's a real character with moves that can kill you ...
 

BigD!!!

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
1,833
roy has moves that can kill you

he just doesnt have moves that can do anything else
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
They only kill you if you completely miss the DI haha
Otherwise you live til 150+ from everything because they send you too high and he has no tools to gimp you with <.<

When I played HBK I actually purposely teched super predictably inward to get my % up to the point where Fsmashes make you gain height

Roy is so bad

O I guess he has his side-b, that's like half a move
 

tarheeljks

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 18, 2006
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land of the free
TLDR High level players play totally different than scrubs or even half-decent players! They play in what seems to be a scrubby style but thats because they know how good they are and they basically 'skip past' all the hard **** we're trying to figure out how to beat!
what does different mean besides better (not trying to be a ****)? i see what you are saying insofar as weaker players make more mistakes, so it can be easier to point and say, "he messed up by doing x." however, regardless of the skill level of the players watched, we have to be able to tap into their motivations/thought processes in order to get the most out of the video. obv by the time someone becomes a strong player a lot of their strat/tactics are second nature, but hearing/reading them talk post about their play makes it clear that they still possess a keen sense of most of their actions. as a result, i think watching the vids of good players in an effort to understand their intentions, not just to emulate particular methods, is an excellent resource. it's harder and a much loftier goal but it gives different sorts of insights
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
@Citizen snips

Just DI in more vs Roy, he doesn't even punish you with combos for doing so haha
 

ryankam10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
279
also wow I love this right here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY8jJed7UBA#t=4m22s
sexy fast nair in response to late marth fair... I'm thinking that is the appropriate response when marth pressure's you at arms length with fair nair. You could wavedash back (the safe response to spaced marth fairs), but thats also pretty bad because you lose ground and give up stage control... I don't try this because I'm afraid of getting fmashed following a fair but I think if you do it fast enough it's a good response. opinions?
 

0Room

Smash Lord
Joined
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Boone, NC
It only worked because Marth didn't do anything
If you notice Marth dashed forward, indicating he had options but chose that one

Conditioning is everything
 

0Room

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
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Boone, NC
Yes
If only good Falcons were allowed [which is entirely subjective btw, when compared to other people] I'm pretty sure the only person who would ever post is S2J

But I mean how are you supposed to get better if you don't ask questions?
 

ryankam10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
279
Are bad Captain Falcons allowed to post here?
dude ive seen your combo video it's at least half decent... somewhat reliant on reading your opponent's every roll but still pretty good ><

edit: upon closer inspection of your recent matches I feel you play pretty similarly to me lol
 

ryankam10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
279
also @ leviathan
you dont tech chase at all and I don't know if using only stomp to approach would work against better foxes >_< You might wanna consider some tech chasing => regrab rather than trying to predict every move

my mistake, was looking at old videos l0l
 

ryankam10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
279
sorry for the triple post.. but I was watching windrose v reis from the last month's A&C tourney and I noticed something that I wanted to point out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BF4B2pU1_s#t=5m48

right after the marth fair on shield, you shouldnt have wded back - you should have hit him in the face with a nair or uair
lately ive been grappling on a theoretical level of how to beat marth and I've come to realize you can't beat marth in a toe to toe fight - he has more range and priority on almost all of his moves so if you use nairs to approach or nair at the wrong time, or if you nair when marth expects it, you will just get hit every single time. I know im sort of beating a dead horse with wait for marth to make a mistake blah blah blah but you simply can't approach marth with nairs when he's DDing like 0room said or basically in a neutral setting where you're both just camping and DDing. likewise doing long SH nairs forward gives the marth lots of time to react with a simple utilt, side b => **** or anything. its super important to only nair marth after hes done a move or something...

anyone agree/disagree? or other perspectives on this aspect of the matchup

also other times where you needed to have aerialed during marths aerial lag:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BF4B2pU1_s#t=6m (Hes above you after bairing, definitely could have hit him)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BF4B2pU1_s#t=6m23s (feel like you could have naired OoS to save your life)
 

Windrose

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
1,470
what the heck, people search my matches??

i played terribly vs reis in that set. i also tried brinstarr as the cp for the first time ever to experiment with it in tournament. i 've tried it a few times vs falco and fox in friendlies but it didn't go well vs marth.

i did much better at the last a & c tournament vs reis in friendlies

/johns
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
I hate CPing goofy stages now <_<

If you win great, but if you lose you don't even get more experience playing on a real stage which will probably be more helpful in the long run anyway

Battlefield is like my default CP
 

Windrose

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
1,470
I hate CPing goofy stages now <_<

If you win great, but if you lose you don't even get more experience playing on a real stage which will probably be more helpful in the long run anyway

Battlefield is like my default CP
aren't you a spacies main now? go to the spacies stadium!

==

yeah i'm never doing the brinstarr thing again. i'd much more prefer FD vs marth than brinstar...

next time
 

ryankam10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
279
nah i just searched it cus I read somewhere that you played him at the tournie.. i figured looking at it would be more useful than looking at like, top level falcons (because you are closer to my own skill level than top level falcons). its easier to see places to improves, where you got outplayed by the opponent and how you could have played differently, then ill try to remember those situations in my own matches and recognize how to react in those situations. I guess thats the point of looking at vids lol
 

BigD!!!

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
1,833
if a marth is setting up to space a fair on your shield, wd back is good because you can run in right afterwards and get a grab fast enough to get him in the lag
 

Walt

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 31, 2007
Messages
894
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Concord, CA
whaaaaaat? man I take like, everyone to stadium as falcon. and would as spacies if I played them is tournament. stadium is mad good.
 

ryankam10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
279
the stage changes there mess me up... then i again its probably something I'd just have to get used to
 
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