Captain Falcon's MANLY Matchup Guide/Discussion Thread Week 16: Yoshi/Sonic

[Ayaz18]

when is this **** getting updated?

 

[Face124]

when is this **** getting updated?

I know :S. How about we just establish a ratio for both now, then move onto Falco (must we do two characters?) and tell Majora_younglink all the updates when he comes back?

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

I know :S. How about we just establish a ratio for both now, then move onto Falco (must we do two characters?) and tell Majora_younglink all the updates when he comes back?

We already did falco!

Next is ROB. WOOT I WUB DAT GUY!

 

[Foufy]

I think the falco 1 is way off.
Falcon can easily punish Falco's up-b recovery so all Falcon has 2 do is get falcon off tyhe stage and under the edge and its basically over, just a running down air and we're done.
It's way too late for me to create coherent sentences so ill talk more about this later.


Rob... ugh, hard as hell to edgehog with laser and free moving recovery (by that i mean his b up and jumps can take him anywhere he desires, up a little down a lot up alot exc.)

FOr some reason despite all the odds, I've had good luck with Rob, go figure?

 

[Player-3]

rob i must say abuse the blindspot

that is all

 

[Face124]

rob i must say abuse the blindspot

that is all

yes agreed. Battlefield is great against this guy, because it gives him little space, he can't camp as much and U-airs through the platforms are great. Shielding is a necessity when far away, as it makes his gyro disappear. Approaching is hard, as his D-smash and ridiculous f-tilt can ward of your aerials and pretty much anything can stop your ground approaches. The blind spot is pretty much your only chance, and you can abuse that particularly on BF.

 

[Foufy]

Uh, I'm sorry, I'm a huge noob when it comes to brawl, only been playin for a week+ (im not THAT bad though haha) what is the "blindspot" does it refer 2 a point where ROB can't hit? If so, where is it and what are good attacks to hit it.

 

[Noodlehead]

and LUIGI!!

 

[Face124]

Uh, I'm sorry, I'm a huge noob when it comes to brawl, only been playin for a week+ (im not THAT bad though haha) what is the "blindspot" does it refer 2 a point where ROB can't hit? If so, where is it and what are good attacks to hit it.

Yes it does. R.O.B. has a blind spot below him (and supposedly behind his, but I don't think so) because all attacks that hit there are laggy (N-air, D-air).

 

[Ayaz18]

well since I heard both Juigi and ROB, i'm going t ogive advice on these two characters.

Luigi- I actually play a Luigi in my community who is REALLY good (beat WiGi in a mirror match). At first Luigi seems like a crazy combo character who seems unbeatable, however Falcon and Luigi are surprisingly are very similar............they both don't have priority. So when in this match-up think that your melee Falcon or better yet, imagine your Meta-knight. Abuse all the moves in your move-set because it's likely that they will out-prioritize Luigi's attacks. Moves to look out for are, Dair and Nair, these are luigi's only approach options (along with his fireball), so as long as you watch-out for thouse you should be fine. However, if your playing a good Luigi watch-out for his jabs, he can kind of jab-lock you by canceling his second jab rythmically, in this position start DI'ing away from him because if you get to close he can combo his jab into up-B

ROB- not too much experience with ROB, he can be campy and get away with it so choose a small stage (battlefield?), hile ROB players are recovering they like to Nair, this makes their recovery nearly impossible to gimp. Like I said though......I don't have too much experience with ROB, the only ones I played that beat me were OCC and Holynightmare. I played few others but they wern't as good

 

[SaltyKracka]

well since I heard both Juigi and ROB, i'm going t ogive advice on these two characters.

Luigi- I actually play a Luigi in my community who is REALLY good (beat WiGi in a mirror match). At first Luigi seems like a crazy combo character who seems unbeatable, however Falcon and Luigi are surprisingly are very similar............they both don't have priority.

I laughed at this. I really, really, did.

 

[Ayaz18]

I laughed at this. I really, really, did.

trufax are trufax

ask anyLuigi main, Luigi does not have priority


3:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX1tytsfzEM even though it's just with side B it applies to basically all his attacks

 

[SaltyKracka]

trufax are trufax

ask anyLuigi main, Luigi does not have priority


3:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX1tytsfzEM even though it's just with side B it applies to basically all his attacks

Um....no. The >B might have nil priority (or, it just might be a case of bad hitbox/hurtboxing, which seems far more likely). But that doesn't mean that all of the rest of his moves have less priority than Falcon's. For example, nair has RIDICULOUS priority.

And also, that video. Every single person in it sucked hard.

 

[Ayaz18]

Um....no. The >B might have nil priority (or, it just might be a case of bad hitbox/hurtboxing, which seems far more likely). But that doesn't mean that all of the rest of his moves have less priority than Falcon's. For example, nair has RIDICULOUS priority.

And also, that video. Every single person in it sucked hard.

wow you're a REALLY big nub then..........

learn to read, I later say that Luigi's Dair and Nair are his only approach option along with fireball in some cases. So why the **** are you bringing up the point that Luigi's Nair has Priority??? are you just born stupid or are you just too ignorant to read and accepts others opinions...........nevermind opinions, these are FACTS i'm laying down, Luigi has crap priority and everybody knows it.

have a nice day

 

[SaltyKracka]

wow you're a REALLY big nub then..........

learn to read, I later say that Luigi's Dair and Nair are his only approach option along with fireball in some cases. So why the **** are you bringing up the point that Luigi's Nair has Priority??? are you just born stupid or are you just too ignorant to read and accepts others opinions...........nevermind opinions, these are FACTS i'm laying down, Luigi has crap priority and everybody knows it.

have a nice day

1. Frankly, I don't see Weegee approaching in the first place. And if he doesn't need to approach, then he can just bair and nair all of your approaches to death.

2. You call me ignorant and stupid because I refuse to accept your unsubtantiated claims that Luigi has no priority, and then go on to claim that these things are facts that everybody knows, when it's fairly obvious that you're talking out of your ***.

Get a grip, hothead. Just because you're a good Falcon doesn't mean that you're right about everything ever.

 

[Ayaz18]

1. Frankly, I don't see Weegee approaching in the first place. And if he doesn't need to approach, then he can just bair and nair all of your approaches to death.

2. You call me ignorant and stupid because I refuse to accept your unsubtantiated claims that Luigi has no priority, and then go on to claim that these things are facts that everybody knows, when it's fairly obvious that you're talking out of your ***.

Get a grip, hothead. Just because you're a good Falcon doesn't mean that you're right about everything ever.

Bair is a nice move but lacks priority properties, this isn't melee Doctor Mario. So thinking that Luigi can Bair spam and own Falcon is a stupid thought. Nair for an apporach would be nice but sadly Luigi has slow aerial movement limiting the effectiveness of this move (you can see it from a mile away and react accordingly) however Dair to Nair is effective (I already said this in my original post).

wow you think i'm just ranting about random bull****, that I'm taking this out of my ***? listen I'm one of the few people who want Falcon to succeed, I know him inside out, and I know all his match-ups fairly well so why wouldn't I be posting about the flaws in Luigi? I post in this match-up thread so we can discuss Luigi's strengths and weaknesses and therfore better EVERY Falcon main's chances to beating him. I know my ****, I play against good people offline, I know that some Falcon main's don't have this luxury so I try to give them my advice so that when they meet Luigi they're not going to get *****. I too listen to people, I just said in my original post that I haven't played against many ROB's so I too look for advice

I'm not saying that I'm the best Falcon (I'm trying to be, that's what GOALS are) I know a handful of people that are better than me.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Bair is a nice move but lacks priority properties, this isn't melee Doctor Mario. So thinking that Luigi can Bair spam and own Falcon is a stupid thought. Nair for an apporach would be nice but sadly Luigi has slow aerial movement limiting the effectiveness of this move (you can see it from a mile away and react accordingly) however Dair to Nair is effective (I already said this in my original post).

wow you think i'm just ranting about random bull****, that I'm taking this out of my ***? listen I'm one of the few people who want Falcon to succeed, I know him inside out, and I know all his match-ups fairly well so why wouldn't I be posting about the flaws in Luigi? I post in this match-up thread so we can discuss Luigi's strengths and weaknesses and therfore better EVERY Falcon main's chances to beating him. I know my ****, I play against good people offline, I know that some Falcon main's don't have this luxury so I try to give them my advice so that when they meet Luigi they're not going to get *****. I too listen to people, I just said in my original post that I haven't played against many ROB's so I too look
for advice

I'm not saying that I'm the best Falcon (I'm trying to be, that's what GOALS are) I know a handful of people that are better than me.

Lemme see....

1. Fireballs. They are projectiles, no matter how bad they may be, and that means Falcon will be approaching. Why don't you talk about that instead of ranting about the priority of Luigi's aerials and the ways in which he can approach, which he will likely never do, considering that he can make YOU approach. That'd be much more pertinent.

2. No, I don't think you're ranting about random bull****. I think that if you claim that Luigi has less priority than Falcon, I need proof of this, given Falcon's notorious priority.

3. YOUR **** GOALS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DISCUSSION! I could care less about why you're doing this. I'm just pointing out that you need to stop acting like I'm coming in here and going "lulz, Falcon sucks, you suck, etc."

 

[Ayaz18]

Lemme see....

1. Fireballs. They are projectiles, no matter how bad they may be, and that means Falcon will be approaching. Why don't you talk about that instead of ranting about the priority of Luigi's aerials and the ways in which he can approach, which he will likely never do, considering that he can make YOU approach. That'd be much more pertinent.

2. No, I don't think you're ranting about random bull****. I think that if you claim that Luigi has less priority than Falcon, I need proof of this, given Falcon's notorious priority.

3. YOUR **** GOALS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DISCUSSION! I could care less about why you're doing this. I'm just pointing out that you need to stop acting like I'm coming in here and going "lulz, Falcon sucks, you suck, etc."

*facepalm*

I'm choosing to end this conversation, you debated that Luigi has priority, I already have proved that he doesn't

his fireballs can be owned by my jabs on a likely note, so that ends 1), I already posted a vid showing his side-B priority , I think you can take my word that Nair and Dair only have priority, that ends 2), you said that i'm cocky cause "i'm acting like the best Falcon" all I did was respond saying that I'm not but I aspire to be AKA goals

if you don't want to listen to me that's your choice

 

[SaltyKracka]

*facepalm*

I'm choosing to end this conversation, you debated that Luigi has priority, I already have proved that he doesn't

his fireballs can be owned by my jabs on a likely note, so that ends 1), I already posted a vid showing his side-B priority , I think you can take my word that Nair and Dair only have priority, that ends 2), you said that i'm cocky cause "i'm acting like the best Falcon" all I did was respond saying that I'm not but I aspire to be AKA goals

if you don't want to listen to me that's your choice

1. Likely is not definitely.
2. You've proved nothing but that Luigi is easy to his out of his >B, something I already knew. If I could take your word for the other things, I already would have.
3. *Headdesks* I never said that. I never even came CLOSE to saying that. Read the posts before you act like this again, would you?

 

[peeeetah]

when fighting luigi i'd watch out for his double aerials. his aerial movement is slow sure, but he can be throwing out a move almost the entire time he's in the air. get him in hitstun and do all you can to keep him in hitstun. his downB is pretty decent as an approach. shield it for its entirety or just run away. punish his recoveries and outrange him with utilt and uair.

i don't really remember how i fight rob... oh yeah. upB his recovery. double uair at low percents. he's a fairly large target for the knee but good players will rarely let down their guard. hard to gimp, so you'll have to kill him outright. your approach options are limited. bait and punish with raptor boost. watch out for dtilt (it trips) and spotdodge>dsmash (really good damage builder). don't get faired. it's like marth's. fair>fair>ftilt etc.

 

[Ayaz18]

1. Likely is not definitely.
2. You've proved nothing but that Luigi is easy to his out of his >B, something I already knew. If I could take your word for the other things, I already would have.
3. *Headdesks* I never said that. I never even came CLOSE to saying that. Read the posts before you act like this again, would you?

1.if jab doesn't out-prioritize it there has to be SOME move that can otherwise Luigi would be broken, I'm just saying that the jabs likely would .......they can out-prioritize ness's PK thunder

2.k so if your so serious about fining out if Luigi has priority why don't YOU go test his moves, you'll find that his Dair and Nair only have priority

3.

Get a grip, hothead. Just because you're a good Falcon doesn't mean that you're right about everything ever.

hmmmmmmmmm, this kinda sounds like it

w/e man, don't go on about this. Seriously just stop unless you have data confirmed by someone else, but that isn't ncessary I'm just giving advice

 

[Wogrim]

Fireballs are only a tiny inconvenience. It's like saying we have to approach G&W because of sausage spam. I'll give a full post some other time.

 

[Ayaz18]

Fireballs are only a tiny inconvenience. It's like saying we have to approach G&W because of sausage spam. I'll give a full post some other time.

exactly!!

Wogrim knows what I'm talking about ^_^

Also in another thread I read that grab realease combo's work on Luigi, another strat for us

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

Um....no. The >B might have nil priority (or, it just might be a case of bad hitbox/hurtboxing, which seems far more likely). But that doesn't mean that all of the rest of his moves have less priority than Falcon's. For example, nair has RIDICULOUS priority.

And also, that video. Every single person in it sucked hard.

QFT

Sorry Ayaz, but he's right here. Weegee's priority is high on his aerials. Thats the thing that matters. I've had weegee's nair cut through snake utilt on many occasions, its NOT pretty.

Fireballs are workable, but the good thing is that weegee has a tough time shield grabbing, making it safer on falcon to approach aerially... that is till the weegee catches on and starts nairing/fairing out of shield to take on aerial approaches.

Weegee also kills fast.

This is one matchup where experience = EVERYTHING. If you don't play good weegee's on a regular basis, you WILL get destroyed. I beat biglou *if you don't know how good biglou's weegee is you must be shot* after some intense weegee practice, but I heard biglou just recently beat ALLY. Thats how scary weegee's can be.

As for ROB, yeah, you guys get the jist. Stay below him, uair and watch out for nair. Just don't let up on pressure, and don't get dsmashed to hell and back.

 

[Ayaz18]

QFT

Sorry Ayaz, but he's right here. Weegee's priority is high on his aerials. Thats the thing that matters. I've had weegee's nair cut through snake utilt on many occasions, its NOT pretty.

Fireballs are workable, but the good thing is that weegee has a tough time shield grabbing, making it safer on falcon to approach aerially... that is till the weegee catches on and starts nairing/fairing out of shield to take on aerial approaches.

Weegee also kills fast.

This is one matchup where experience = EVERYTHING. If you don't play good weegee's on a regular basis, you WILL get destroyed. I beat biglou *if you don't know how good biglou's weegee is you must be shot* after some intense weegee practice, but I heard biglou just recently beat ALLY. Thats how scary weegee's can be.

As for ROB, yeah, you guys get the jist. Stay below him, uair and watch out for nair. Just don't let up on pressure, and don't get dsmashed to hell and back.

GRRRRRRRR

why won't people READ, in my ORIGINAL POST I said that Luigi only has Nair and Dair for an approach, they are the ONLY moves with priority so why are you stating what I already said, that's why I was fighting with that cracka guy, because I already said that Luigi's Dair and Nair only have priority, other than that his aerials are pretty crap

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

GRRRRRRRR

why won't people READ, in my ORIGINAL POST I said that Luigi only has Nair and Dair for an approach, they are the ONLY moves with priority so why are you stating what I already said, that's why I was fighting with that cracka guy, because I already said that Luigi's Dair and Nair only have priority, other than that his aerials are pretty crap

Moves to look out for are, Dair and Nair, these are luigi's only approach options (along with his fireball), so as long as you watch-out for thouse you should be fine.

Uhh, no you said they were approach options. Nothing about priority, except what salty pointed out.

I DID read what you wrote, thank you very much.

 

[Player-3]

watch out for fireball to fireball... deadly combo

i dont have much experience agianst luigi, but sometime soon im going to another tournament and there will be a very good luigi player there, biglou, and hopefully ill get him in my bracket this time

last time my first match was kismet2, winner of the tournament.. at my first offline tourny
it was just wonderful

BUT I DIDNT GET 3 STOCKED! :D

 

[Ayaz18]

Uhh, no you said they were approach options. Nothing about priority, except what salty pointed out.

I DID read what you wrote, thank you very much.

well it was pointed out then >________________>

relax bud, every good approach has priority, why wouldn't that effect Juigi's Dair and Nair for an approach

 

[Majora_younglink]

Alright. So I'm like back. I'm going to try to read through all the posts I've missed and take them into consideration for current and old matchups.

Sorry for being gone for so long, I'll try not to let it happen again. I'll edit this post when I finish updating the first post.

EDIT: Done.

Current matchup is ROB and Wuigi.

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

ROB is too good.

100:0 R.O.B.s favor. Its just too simple. ROB just ROBS you and you lie there and as he takes your wallet. Then you ask "WHY?!?" And he just beeps and dsmashes you.


Ok but seriously... ROB is a camper. Any good ROB will NEVER approach you barring a glidetoss. And even then they won't approach unless they know it'll catch you off guard or if you're falling from a jump.

Lasers are annoying, and can be angled. Watch out, since they'll use it to disrupt your second jump and have a chance at edgehogging you. Gyro has some pretty high knockback, and a lingering hitbox as it spins, acting like a wall if you don't jump. ROB also has an amazing glidetoss, and many options for faking you out with it.

Nair can and will destroy your aerial game, but its slow. Falcon can stay right under ROB, and pretty much stay safe if you can read the nairs properly. Oh yeah and shorthopped knee = ****. ROB's one tall mofo.

Be careful grabbing, spotdodge to dsmash can and will be used and abused throughout the match.

Its a tough climb, but falcon is fast and has a good way to punish ROBs blindspot. I'd say 40:60 ROB's favor.

 

[Ayaz18]

ROB is too good.

100:0 R.O.B.s favor. Its just too simple. ROB just ROBS you and you lie there and as he takes your wallet. Then you ask "WHY?!?" And he just beeps and dsmashes you.


Ok but seriously... ROB is a camper. Any good ROB will NEVER approach you barring a glidetoss. And even then they won't approach unless they know it'll catch you off guard or if you're falling from a jump.

Lasers are annoying, and can be angled. Watch out, since they'll use it to disrupt your second jump and have a chance at edgehogging you. Gyro has some pretty high knockback, and a lingering hitbox as it spins, acting like a wall if you don't jump. ROB also has an amazing glidetoss, and many options for faking you out with it.

Nair can and will destroy your aerial game, but its slow. Falcon can stay right under ROB, and pretty much stay safe if you can read the nairs properly. Oh yeah and shorthopped knee = ****. ROB's one tall mofo.

Be careful grabbing, spotdodge to dsmash can and will be used and abused throughout the match.

Its a tough climb, but falcon is fast and has a good way to punish ROBs blindspot. I'd say 40:60 ROB's favor.

I haven't faced many ROB players, care to share more tips?

I had no idea about this "blind spot" people have been talking about.

but WiGi is a 60:40 match-up (in his favor), he has no decent approach besides Dair and Nair, his fireballs can be annoying but can be easily avoided.........I haven't tested this but i'm pretty sure Falcon's jabs take out his fireballs

 

[Lareit]

Ahaha, I'm back(nearly got corrupted by the desire to win and go back to Snake)

Luigi-No real experiance.

Rob-Gyro spam. Lazer spam. Downsmash Spam. Fair aerial chains. The only things to fear from him honestly.

Sadly it's enough to give him a pretty distinct advantage. Especially since his projectile spam followed by his tilts(which outrange and outprioritize ours) limit approaching from the front. It's almost all going to be Up and over.

Up forward tilts outrange without clanging his downsmash. Which is useful for follow up after a bair approach. Falcon kick should be used the other half of the time when you land outside of downsmash range and try to bait his forward or down tilt.


He has no quick aerial so Jab games all work on him.
He's also tall so nair and knee's are in high supply this fight.
His kill moves should not land easily on Falcon.

60-40 Rob's favor.

 

[Wogrim]

Luigi:
Fast aerials like Mario can "combo" you to hell and back; spacing and getting away if he does hit you are important.
Very good recovery, but basically vulnerable to Falcon Dive during those B-moves.
NAir: beware of this because he can bust this out in the middle of 'combos' and eat you up.
Fireballs: only a problem if you approach carelessly; not good enough to make you approach.
Up-B: nasty as a kill move; try not to stay too near him.

His fast move speed (short duration) generally means you can't really beat him with speed, leaving range, priority, or knockback (when trading hits) your modes to beat him in. Smashes and Utilt help a lot.

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

I haven't faced many ROB players, care to share more tips?

I had no idea about this "blind spot" people have been talking about.

but WiGi is a 60:40 match-up (in his favor), he has no decent approach besides Dair and Nair, his fireballs can be annoying but can be easily avoided.........I haven't tested this but i'm pretty sure Falcon's jabs take out his fireballs

The "blind spot" is below ROB. Only can be hit by dair and nair, and both are slow startup and high ending lag. Behind ROB is ok, but its harder since bair comes out faster.

Yeah, ROB will wall of pain you if you don't falcon dive fast enough, watch out. Also, he can't airdodge while recovering with the booster, so feel free to use a power move. Just watch out since uair and fair come out fast.

I'm trying to get my ROB better, so I have a little experience using him, and I also have moderate experience fighting them with snake and Ike. His range is gonna be hard to overcome if you space badly on your ground game. I'd recommend falcon kick over dash grabs because ROB sidesteps more than shield grabs.

 

[Mmac]

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/4383/matchupchartv3bt2.png

I updated the template to the design of my better Matchup Charts, and to the new Tier List

 

[Wogrim]

Rob:
Pretty much ungimpable: generally have to kill him off the side or spike him, although you can rack up some decent damage as he tries to up-B back to the stage (expect him to NAir if you approach)
Spotdodge -> DSmash: Not much you can do here except for long-duration hitboxes (Knee, Dash attack to some extent, although both are bad on shield) or using cancelled aerials. Falcon Dive as an approach gets you out of the way of the DSmash
Weak spots: below him (slow DAir, laggy NAir) and above him if he's in the air (not very good UAir, laggy NAir)
Laser: keep in mind his perspective and you can generally see these coming
FAir WOP: fast but gets beat by strong moves. If you're in the air you need to airdodge or DI away/down so that one misses (and Falcon Dive, Raptor Boost spike, Knee his arms, or UAir him)
NAir: dodge these and you're fine

 

[Majora_younglink]

Hmm well it seems pretty obvious that C Falc is in pretty area for these matchups. If anyone else wants to, feel free to put in your 2 cents. Personally I don't have any REAL experience with either. But I do know from what little I have played Luigi is pretty **** good at beating out C Falcon in the air.

Also I'm surprised this isn't stickied by now. By far one of the most viewed and responded to thread on this board and still no sticky.

PS: Thanks Mmac again. I'll use the new one I guess. Thanks for your continued support of the matchup thread. :D

 

[Ayaz18]

bumps for a heated discussion and update

 

[Wogrim]

We need some Rob and Luigi posters.

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

We need some Rob and Luigi posters.

Well, we did cover ROB well, and I'm an amateur with him so I guess my opinion is half valid. I don't see ROB having much more than that, which is really good already.

As for weegee... Ehh

Somebody fetch us a weegee.