Captain Falcon's MANLY Matchup Guide/Discussion Thread Week 16: Yoshi/Sonic

[Hive]

ddd ***** samus, but that's bc of his cg, infinite, 160%+ on stage kill percent, close range moveset, the cg killing all of samus' spacing, and the difficulty to spike him... he has a horrible time approaching samus though, as i think dk does... he's just to big and slow of a target, and not much they can do to counter zair and zair/missile approaches...
falcon doesn't have the best approach, but i do think its better than others...

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

DK can space real well, and King Dedede ***** Samus. Both of these characters are good at approaching. Captain Falcon simply doesn't have the best approach, and when Falcon has to approach, that's a problem. In this match, Samus doesn't even need to bother approaching Falcon. It's all, "If you can get to me, I'll fight you."

DK ain't too hot of an approacher, he likes to play it midrange. DDD is just a STUPID matchup because, not only of his CG, but his infinite standing throw on Samus. Ban that, and you'll have an easier time, even though he can use waddle dees to soak up the missiles, he'll have to work past zair.

Now, say fox or sonic, they can zip on in just like falcon and give samus less time to prepare. I'm not saying its advantage falcon, but his speed is a big plus in this match.

 

[Ayaz18]

Samus's low gravity properties make her have to wait before she can effectively Zair/missle cancel, so the key to this match-up is to become very aggressive (in my opinion).

iunno Xyro but I think this match-up is like 60:40 at most in Samus's favor.......

I would play you but i'm sick

 

[Darxmarth23]

I would use moves that propel you past her optimal z-air and missile range. Some thing like Raptor boost of Falcon kick. Then use tilts and aerials. The problem with that is her priority. Good thing shes not heavy.

 

[Zeallyx]

I would use moves that propel you past her optimal z-air and missile range. Some thing like Raptor boost of Falcon kick. Then use tilts and aerials. The problem with that is her priority. Good thing shes not heavy.

Her projectiles stop/hit you during the falcon kick

and the raptor boost can even be Zair'd IIRC
and not to mention the ending lag on the falcon kick

 

[Darxmarth23]

Her projectiles stop/hit you during the falcon kick

and the raptor boost can even be Zair'd IIRC
and not to mention the ending lag on the falcon kick

Sigh...i know.

man i miss priority.....
*plays melee*

 

[Player-3]

Sigh...i know.

man i miss priority.....
*plays melee*

falcon had no priority in melee either...

 

[Crystanium]

Good thing shes not heavy.

Samus is a heavy-weight.

 

[Zeallyx]

falcon had no priority in melee either...

well, regardless, falcon's priority sure wasn't an issue in melee..

 

[Player-3]

well, regardless, falcon's priority sure wasn't an issue in melee..

because of hitstun...

 

[Darxmarth23]

because of hitstun...

I want that back too...

 

[Zeallyx]

because of hitstun...

so its moot..

 

[Darxmarth23]

so its moot..

Yeazs. His priority and hitstun just get in the way now.

Crap. Gotta go 2 a party. Later all.

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

Gawd, its so dreary in here now.

 

[Zeallyx]

Gawd, its so dreary in here now.

You still have to ' counter' some of my points I posted in a responds to you. (on the previous page)

 

[Ayaz18]

uhhhhhh.................. has anyone played competitive melee?

I just finished a mini melee tournament yesterday (2nd with Falcon) priority IS a problem in melee. Against Fox and Falco, Falcon can only use Nair and grabs by means of an approach.

 

[Majora_younglink]

Okay. I read through all the thread and decided on a few posts to put on the first page. Too be honest I think Samus was covered quite nicely but Fox is something to be desired...

FF5, mind finding that post you had on FF5 so I can have a look at it and consider it for the front page? But I'll put a ration on Fox since it's generally agreed that Fox is 40:60 in his advantage.

Gonna get to editing the front page and all right now by the way.

 

[Majora_younglink]

Done. Current matchup is now Mario and Sheik, go.

As for FF5, pm me the post about the Fox matchup I guess.

 

[Face124]

Omfg. Samus is 55/45 Falcon's favour!? That's just ********. I'm pretty sure the majority said 40/60 Samus, and I agree with that. Please change it.

 

[Zeallyx]

Omfg. Samus is 55/45 Falcon's favour!? That's just ********. I'm pretty sure the majority said 40/60 Samus, and I agree with that. Please change it.

Agreed. But I still don't understand how anyone can say it is any lower than 65-35 samus' favor..It is just soo, obvious.

 

[Jim Morrison]

If you're gonna lie about numbers, you might as well just make it Falcons advantage and have some false pride.

 

[Crystanium]

All right, Captain Falcon board, I am now finished with the discussion between Captain Falcon and Samus. That was a full week, and it looks like we got some stuff covered. Now I am onto the Diddy Kong board! Thanks for your input, everyone, and to those who brawled with me.

 

[Majora_younglink]

Omfg. Samus is 55/45 Falcon's favour!? That's just ********. I'm pretty sure the majority said 40/60 Samus, and I agree with that. Please change it.

First off, commentary is meant to be in pms not in the thread. I've said this before.

Second for the most part people were saying it was a 55/45 advantage except for a few select people who I feel didn't prove their point nearly well enough to raise it by 5. Even some Samus mainers were saying that at a high skill level it's just about 55/45.

The advantage part is my fault though. I went and changed it right now. I really should stop editing it when I'm busy. >.<

Refresh the page if you still see it as 55/45. It's not.

EDIT:

@G2 You didn't even contribute to the discussion at all. Like honestly I don't see where you have any place to criticize on the matchup. Actually have you contributed at all in Falcon's metagame...?
Also lawd at faking matchup numbers. Notice how I have a part that explicitly says that you can pm me any problems with the matchups? That is meant to be done. I want to keep this matchups as accurate as possible.

Plus PMs. Commentary goes in pms not in this thread. I swear I'm going to make it huge font in red colors....

 

[Roager]

All right. Mario and Shiek... Here goes...

MARIO
Disclaimer: I know very little about Mario's metagame. I am basing this primarily on his moveset.

Mario's an odd character. He has no glaring disadvantages, other than his lack of obvious advantages. And vice versa...

Anyway, in the air, Mario and Falcon match up like so:

Nair:
Falcon: two hits, one very weak, the other a bit stronger than ftilt.
Mario: Sex kick, comes out very fast. Also, quite powerful at the beginning.

Fair:
Falcon: The Knee. Has some startup lag, also has some properties of sex kick.
Mario: Sweeping downward punch. Can spike. Has more startup lag than the Knee.

Bair:
Falcon: Backhand. Has a little startup lag, sweetspots at his fist. Can kill if saved.
Mario: Very fast backwards kick. Medium knockback, but is very useful when edgeguarding.

Dair:
Falcon: Stomp. Can spike or launch, depending on the hitbox. Can kill.
Mario: multi-hit spin attack. Decent damage, good priority.

Uair:
Falcon: Backflip kick. Large area hit. Spammable. Can kill if saved, but it's never saved.
Mario: Backflip kick. Faster than Falcon's, but smaller. Also has less varied kknockback.

All in all, I think Falcon has a better airgame, but Mario's can still destroy you if he's aggressive enough, thanks to it's speed.

Groundgame... Falcon has better range, but mario wins in the priority department. Knockback... Falcon has slightly more, I think. Not sure.

Damage... No idea.

Edgeguarding:
Falcon: Decent spiking ability, if he gets the chance. Can also stagespike with Bair.
Mario: Has the ****ing cape. Has a spike, can also stagespike with Bair.

All in all, most of what Falcon can do, Mario can do better. Falcon is better at killing, though. I think...

40/60 Mario's favor?

I might come back for a Shiek analysis. But, for now, there is work to be done.

 

[Face124]

Really, not enough was said about the Fox match -up to be done yet, another reason why I think it should be only one character per week. The ratio should not be based on the amount of people who agree with a match-up, but rather the validity of their arguments. 3 people have expressed disagreement with this ratio, a reason why I hibk it should be done again.

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

Yeah, I noticed mario is kinda like falcon in that he has a pretty good ground game, great air game, and can juggle opponents if you're fast/can read airdodges. But with some PRIORITY! I've been playing him a bit more recently, but I can't speak for his matchup.

Sheik? Ehh... I've only played one decent sheik but NEVER with falcon. All I know is that sheik forces approaches, which sucks. SUCKS.

 

[Jim Morrison]

My contribution was fighting Knee with my Samus.

 

[Majora_younglink]

Really, not enough was said about the Fox match -up to be done yet, another reason why I think it should be only one character per week. The ratio should not be based on the amount of people who agree with a match-up, but rather the validity of their arguments. 3 people have expressed disagreement with this ratio, a reason why I hibk it should be done again.

*ignored*

From henceforth all criticism not done in PM form are being ignored unless it's an immediate problem like a misdone matchup ratio.

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

Really, not enough was said about the Fox match -up to be done yet, another reason why I think it should be only one character per week. The ratio should not be based on the amount of people who agree with a match-up, but rather the validity of their arguments. 3 people have expressed disagreement with this ratio, a reason why I hibk it should be done again.

No no no..

I gave my response, which was highly detailed not only HERE ON THE FALCON BOARDS, but on the fox boards as well, and they agreed with the 40:60 falcon matchup. I pmed my OP to majora as well, he has my post as reference. You don't need multiple long posts reiterating the same point over and over again, you only need one, and people to agree with it.

Why in all of hell would you make a matchup that is somewhat agreed upon by the falcon boards, and put in on the statistics on the Fox boards, to be disputed?

On top of that, I use fox somewhere between my secondary and third character, swapping him with falcon on a frequent basis. I know how to play him, giving me just a little bit of personal experience, on top of my local and wifi matches that I've played against fox users *Monkey and Machinegunnorm come to mind*

 

[Majora_younglink]

No no no..

I gave my response, which was highly detailed not only HERE ON THE FALCON BOARDS, but on the fox boards as well, and they agreed with the 40:60 falcon matchup. I pmed my OP to majora as well, he has my post as reference. You don't need multiple long posts reiterating the same point over and over again, you only need one, and people to agree with it.

Why in all of hell would you make a matchup that is somewhat agreed upon by the falcon boards, and put in on the statistics on the Fox boards, to be disputed?

On top of that, I use fox somewhere between my secondary and third character, swapping him with falcon on a frequent basis. I know how to play him, giving me just a little bit of personal experience, on top of my local and wifi matches that I've played against fox users *Monkey and Machinegunnorm come to mind*

XD

Calm down FF. I've gotten quite a few requests in pm form asking for it to be extended so I'll do as such for the good of the boards but if it isn't done by that time I'll keep it at that ratio.

So then the current matchups will be Fox and Mario once I update the thread.

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

XD

Calm down FF. I've gotten quite a few requests in pm form asking for it to be extended so I'll do as such for the good of the boards but if it isn't done by that time I'll keep it at that ratio.

So then the current matchups will be Fox and Mario once I update the thread.

Gaaaaaar

Whatever, I doubt it'll change the ratio.

And its its Hazardousdoc XD, people call me F5 even though its my clan tag

 

[Player-3]

Ah yes mario...
hes a *****

if most marios are anything like my friend, as soon as your offstage they get cape happy and you get gimped at like -5%
its retardedly effective
other than that, hes got the utiltx9001 to the uair bind to the fair spike...
mario WILL **** you off stage.
do not try to combat him off stage

in the air though, capes dont do crap, so you have the advantage with spaced uairs/bairs since mario is so short and stubby

anywhere between 55:45 to 65:35 marios favor, you guys decide im not good at ratios

but he will **** you on the ground and offstage, all youve got is in the air

]:

(plus his fmash is good at dodging jabs due to the stepback he gets)

my friend plays a pretty good mario and i know this matchup pretty well

 

[Face124]

Ok. Firstly, HazDoc, I aplologize, bit I saw little real discussion on this thread, so I just assumed there wouldn't be any more elsewhere. My bad.

But Majora, I don't see why my point on doing a single character per week was ignored.

 

[Majora_younglink]

I'm making a point Face. I'm not taking criticism about the thread or matchups (with few exceptions) unless you bother to pm me. It's even in the first post.

 

[Face124]

No, the OP says that if anyone disagrees with a matchup to pm you, I asked why my point on doing one character per week was ignored.

 

[Roager]

Face: Then instead of making a point he'd already made in the first post, he's making a new point.

Point is, the thread is for discussions about matchups, not for discussions about discussions.

 

[Player-3]

Ah yes mario...
hes a *****

if most marios are anything like my friend, as soon as your offstage they get cape happy and you get gimped at like -5%
its retardedly effective
other than that, hes got the utiltx9001 to the uair bind to the fair spike...
mario WILL **** you off stage.
do not try to combat him off stage

in the air though, capes dont do crap, so you have the advantage with spaced uairs/bairs since mario is so short and stubby

anywhere between 55:45 to 65:35 marios favor, you guys decide im not good at ratios

but he will **** you on the ground and offstage, all youve got is in the air

]:

(plus his fmash is good at dodging jabs due to the stepback he gets)

my friend plays a pretty good mario and i know this matchup pretty well

inb4discussthematchup

cmon gaiz dont bump it a page after actual relevent posts...

 

[Matt07]

Pros
+Falcon has better range then Mario does
+Falcon can K.O Mario earlier then Mario can K.O him
+Mario's recovery is a easy to intercept so I think you can easily get a d-air off of him offstage, just be careful of the Cape.

Cons
-Mario's Fireballs can prove annoying.
-Mario can Cape Falcon's up B for an easy 'gimp.'
-Mario can combo Falcon quite easily.

I honestly dunno the ratio of this match-up.

@Player 3, actually I think Falcon does way better on the ground then Mario, Falcon's range on the ground is better then Mario's, however I dunno how safe your options are on the ground. I also think that Falcon's u-air has good range, and outranges all of Mario's aerials (practically all of Falcon's move outranges ours.)

 

[Player-3]

Pros
+Falcon has better range then Mario does
+Falcon can K.O Mario earlier then Mario can K.O him
+Mario's recovery is a easy to intercept so I think you can easily get a d-air off of him offstage, just be careful of the Cape.

Cons
-Mario's Fireballs can prove annoying.
-Mario can Cape Falcon's up B for an easy 'gimp.'
-Mario can combo Falcon quite easily.

I honestly dunno the ratio of this match-up.

@Player 3, actually I think Falcon does way better on the ground then Mario, Falcon's range on the ground is better then Mario's, however I dunno how safe your options are on the ground. I also think that Falcon's u-air has good range, and outranges all of Mario's aerials (practically all of Falcon's move outranges ours.)

Nah, marios Fsmash can pretty much destroy all of our options on the ground..

 

[Face124]

Nah, marios Fsmash can pretty much destroy all of our options on the ground..

Not really....