Captain Falcon's MANLY Matchup Guide/Discussion Thread Week 16: Yoshi/Sonic

[F5Hazardousdoc]

If mario tries dair, falcon can easily outrange there. If falcon can trade blows in this matchup, you're doing it right, because he can finish mario faster too. Falcon has a slight edge in KO power in this matchup, but mario has a big edge in gimping.

Which is why its either 60:40 or 65:35 mario

 

[t3h n00b]

I like going for sweet knees here, since mario's range in the air is pretty close to falcon's besides each uair outranging a lot or stuff. So like if mario nairs/bairs I'd run into it with fair.

 

[eRonin]

There's a good Mario main at my school, but I haven't had the luck in playing a match against him. Pretty much just capes/fireballs combos into aerials, from what I've seen.
No one at my school mains fox =.="

 

[Ayaz18]

o wow school............

find a smash community in your AREA not your school >_>


if you did you would understand match-ups


naturally anything that is foreign is hard at first..........I'v had people in tournament say that Falcon is broken.............

 

[t3h n00b]

Lol his range and priority are crazy man

 

[Darxmarth23]

Haha, wait, 6/4 Mario, that means we win 60% of the time?

No, It means Mario wins 60% of the time.

 

[Mit]

No, It means Mario wins 60% of the time.

If mario tries dair, falcon can easily outrange there.

Methinks you need to play a bit more against Mario. I'm not positive, but I could swear his dair has a disjointed hitbox. Everytime I go after it in the air I get hit by it. I don't know if it's the multiple hits making it impossible to get a hit in or what, but it's not an easily approachable move, and it can also be used to break our aerial approaches as we try them.

I like going for sweet knees here, since mario's range in the air is pretty close to falcon's besides each uair outranging a lot or stuff. So like if mario nairs/bairs I'd run into it with fair.

Bair has almost no ending lag, so if you go at him when he uses it, he's just going to kick you again, especially if you try to knee him (there's no way you could get a sweetspotted knee in without him being able to dodge/hit you after he uses bair). Nair is usually the same deal. The ending lag is not that bad (not nearly bad enough to punish with an fair), and it's usually preceded by a fireball and used as an approach to chain into a combo.

 

[t3h n00b]

If both attacks hit the opponent's hurtbox, they will both hit since aerial attacks don't clank. I'm not saying the knee will hit first, I'm saying a sweet knee at 60ish percent trading hits with one of Mario's aerials will be very effective- it will either put Mario offstage or KO him (at higher percentages).

 

[Mit]

If trading sweet knees in the air was as easy as you make it sound, we could apply to just about any opponents physical aerial moves. Unfortunately it isn't, and that does not happen often, especially since it takes so long for knee to come out, you don't usually get sweet spotted knees on anyone, even trading hits, if they're good.

In general, knee is not a good move to use at a competitive level unless you are almost positive it's going to connect, or you're strategically using a flubbed knee.

 

[Darxmarth23]

Oh! My bad, Mit!

 

[eRonin]

o wow school............

find a smash community in your AREA not your school >_>


if you did you would understand match-ups


naturally anything that is foreign is hard at first..........I'v had people in tournament say that Falcon is broken.............

Hey I have the only Ike main in the region at my school =P
There are about 20 serious players at my school, so it's all right...
I held a tourney there and got 27 participants, but 2 of the best didn't play...boo.

But yeah, I guess I would need to find somewhere with 3+ people playing each character before I could figure things out with proper match-ups.

 

[Wogrim]

If trading sweet knees in the air was as easy as you make it sound, we could apply to just about any opponents physical aerial moves. Unfortunately it isn't, and that does not happen often, especially since it takes so long for knee to come out, you don't usually get sweet spotted knees on anyone, even trading hits, if they're good.

In general, knee is not a good move to use at a competitive level unless you are almost positive it's going to connect, or you're strategically using a flubbed knee.

With Mario's lack of range though, the Knee IS more effective than against a lot of other characters. I'm not saying we have a better air game, but he doesn't just recklessly beat us head to head like, say, Marth.

 

[t3h n00b]

The one time I thought I actually landed a knee on Marth, he countered it and no, that smiley wasn't random at all :/

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

BoX7 didn't go to the tourney :'(

I r a sad panda

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

Methinks you need to play a bit more against Mario. I'm not positive, but I could swear his dair has a disjointed hitbox. Everytime I go after it in the air I get hit by it. I don't know if it's the multiple hits making it impossible to get a hit in or what, but it's not an easily approachable move, and it can also be used to break our aerial approaches as we try them.

Naw, the last hit has high priority and quite a bit of range, but I don't believe there's a disjointed hitbox there.

When I mean trading blows...

Well, its like this. Snake vs MK, if snake can trade blow for blow, or even nade counter MK, he WILL have the advantage. Snake kills faster than MK, and is a heavyweight, amplifying MK's only weaknesses. If you can trade hits with an MK player, you're doing it right.

And crap dbl post > : (

 

[Majora_younglink]

Alright updated. I personally saw the discussion adequate for Mario but I feel there weren't any real big informative posts on the matchup. If someone wants to pm me one that'd be appreciated. Fox is up since general consensus is that it's 40/60.

Current matchup is ZSS and Sheik. So go.

 

[Darxmarth23]

Tow really fast foes. They out prioritize you too.

I would go mind games. And uber-punishments. Like shieks f-smash. go behind her and punish.

I would go defensive.

 

[DoB04]

well for sheik, i think if you air grab release (grab her while she's on the edge so her body is offstage but falcon is on stage) you can follow up with a falling knee (most likely will be flubbed one) and then chain from there with an uair or something else.
basically, just an easy edgeguard tip against sheik, to get her in that position, i recommend mindgamed fthrow chains/dthrow chains
now about the matchup itself, i'd have to say sheik has the advantage simply because of her projectile and her ftilt combos... other than that, they have the same attributes, bad recovery, hard to kill with, light, etc.

 

[t3h n00b]

I try to get up close to ZSS because of that annoying plasma whip sweetspot and to punish the laggy blaster thing, and I think darxmarth23 hit the nail on the head with defense.

 

[Ayaz18]

K well on my way to seconding Shiek and I gotta say that this match-up is 70:30..........she can "pace" soooo well against Falcon with Ftilt. And her Utilt is a really good spacing tool. Imagine Shiek as a nerfed version of Falco......she's basically can get a free 80% on every stock............has an annoying projectile .........and on top of that has a wicked Dsmash that has three hit-boxs.

only problem is that she can only kill with Vanish, Fsmash, and Usmash...........so the key to this match-up is GOOD DI

for escaping both the Ftilt lock and for surviving

 

[SaltyKracka]

If you're covering Sheik, you're going to have to do Z/S as well.

 

[Wogrim]

K well on my way to seconding Shiek and I gotta say that this match-up is 70:30..........she can "pace" soooo well against Falcon with Ftilt. And her Utilt is a really good spacing tool. Imagine Shiek as a nerfed version of Falco......she's basically can get a free 80% on every stock............has an annoying projectile .........and on top of that has a wicked Dsmash that has three hit-boxs.

only problem is that she can only kill with Vanish, Fsmash, and Usmash...........so the key to this match-up is GOOD DI

for escaping both the Ftilt lock and for surviving

I get killed by Fair more than FSmash.

 

[Lareit]

Shiek is Captain Falcon's worst matchup in the same way ZSS is Foxes.

Shiek has a virtually 0-death combo on falcon due to F-tilt to Upsmash tipper.

Falcon is heavy and a fast faller, he gets stuck in the f-tilt forever. The only to get out of it is to hard DI down and hope to power shield while inputing grab and hope that when you finally powershield, the grab is input over your smash DI down triggers a spot dodge and puts you right back in it.

Falcon is stuck in the tilt till the 80-90% range and is then easily upsmash tipper'd due to his large size.

She can duck mid jab combo's. Her F-air comes out quick enough to interrupt jab/grab combo's. She has projectiles forcing the approach.

90/10. Gimp and early KO's(she is light) are the 10%.

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

Shiek is Captain Falcon's worst matchup in the same way ZSS is Foxes.

Shiek has a virtually 0-death combo on falcon due to F-tilt to Upsmash tipper.

Falcon is heavy and a fast faller, he gets stuck in the f-tilt forever. The only to get out of it is to hard DI down and hope to power shield while inputing grab and hope that when you finally powershield, the grab is input over your smash DI down triggers a spot dodge and puts you right back in it.

Falcon is stuck in the tilt till the 80-90% range and is then easily upsmash tipper'd due to his large size.

She can duck mid jab combo's. Her F-air comes out quick enough to interrupt jab/grab combo's. She has projectiles forcing the approach.

90/10. Gimp and early KO's(she is light) are the 10%.

I don't recall sheik having an ftilt lock on falcon...

Also, sheik is not fox's worst matchup. lol

Edit: No, I sincerly doubt that sheik has ftilt lock on falcon. Falcon doesn't fall as fast as the spacies.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

ive played a good sheik. was not fun at all. needles and tilts can set up for easy combos for sheik. she can also gimp (duh) but really good at gimping falcon's recovery and imo, his recovery is really good and something to rely on but against sheik, recovering is out the window (a good sheik anyway)

id say 65:35 sheiks favor.

for zss, i dont think its that bad a match up. falcon's jab can block her pieces of suit and it isnt hard getting close to her but the offstage play is somewhat risky because of her flip spike (i havent played as zss to know the name, but its when she flips and can turn the move into a spike) and her tether recovery, unless you can mindgame a good move to stop her recovery then its game. but because of dsmash combos and her spacing ability...

60:40 (for zss of course)

 

[Lareit]

I don't recall sheik having an ftilt lock on falcon...

Also, sheik is not fox's worst matchup. lol

Edit: No, I sincerly doubt that sheik has ftilt lock on falcon. Falcon doesn't fall as fast as the spacies.

I said ZSS was foxes worst matchup. Paralyzer spam to back air is nearly assured death. In the same way Pikachu Dthrow spam to death.

And Falcon is f-tilt locked by shiek.

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

:|

Pika is fox's worst matchup. ZSS is close though.

And I've never been ftilt locked by a sheik. maybe a few times, 2 or 3 hits, but never as much as a spacy. :|

 

[SaltyKracka]

Then you've never played a good Sheik.

 

[Player-3]

Then you've never played a good Sheik.

..........................................


im not even going to ask how it takes a good sheik to ftilt lock

 

[Darxmarth23]

Shiek is an annoying thorn in the ***. She has ways to deal with things we have.

I'm 65/35 on this one.

 

[adumbrodeus]

..........................................


im not even going to ask how it takes a good sheik to ftilt lock

Because to be an effective lock that can only end in tippered up-smash it requires good timing on the ftilt and DI reading.

It's all within easily achievable human reaction time, but you've gotta know it, otherwise it doesn't work properly.

 

[Dxkid]

Playing an shiek is annoying as hell no matter what you do there is always a way she comes bakc in the fight D=<

65:35 sheiks favor

 

[SaltyKracka]

Honestly, I don't see why you can't just go into 70:30 territory. It's obviously as bad as that, especially should you encounter a Shiek/Zelda.

 

[Zeallyx]

I'm with saltycracker on this one.
sheik is as bad as DK, in her own way.

70-30, sheiks advantage (at least)

 

[Dxkid]

Honestly, I don't see why you can't just go into 70:30 territory. It's obviously as bad as that, especially should you encounter a Shiek/Zelda.

to be honest i was going to say that shiek vs CF=LOL but i thought about it

clearly that was a dumb thought :/

 

[Majora_younglink]

I personally do see Sheik going around 65-35 or worse. Her spacing and combos work wonders on C Falcon.

ZSS... I have no idea but it seems like a disadvantage matchup but not nearly as bad as Sheiks but to be honest I have no real experience with a good ZSS so I can't honestly say.

 

[Darxmarth23]

My Falcon Sheik Ledge crap.

My Falcon/Sheik Ledge crap.

Get her off edge and edge hog. Her up-b had no attack when she reappears. If she tries her tether recovery then you should have been on the ledge before hand. Offstage she isn't as much of a threat b/c her options are much more limited than the average character.

But if she is close then she can be a problem.

If you are on the edge then its hard for her to get you off unless she is close enough to hit you. If she is close enough to hit you she will up-b onto the stage and let the flare at the beginning of the attack send you off the stage and up. She might also f-air you and send you off the wall and down and then up-b onto the stage. She can try to tether and knock you off the edge. I'm pretty sure it won't send you too far and you might up-b back onto the stage.

Invincibility frames take care of all that.

Now here is the interesting thing. She can stick to walls. Wait for your invincibility to wear off and then wall jump b-air you. You have some options. They aren't very good but you do have some.

D-air: I wouldn't rely on it. I don't think its too safe. Just cause of the initial lag.
F-air: Its okay with me. I wouldn't trust it too much. Sheik is fast. Something might happen.
N-air: Crappy priority. Sheik can get rid of that.
U-air: You might hit her if its fast falled but good luck recovering.
Get up: Safe. She is probably going to have her way anyway.

These are pretty much all the recoveries she might pull on you. Yeah. That's what i think. She will most likely not do the wall thing but I've seen it happen on Yoshi's a lot with my friends.

 

[Lareit]

..........................................


im not even going to ask how it takes a good sheik to ftilt lock

If you try to DI away they'll take tiny steps inbetween the F-Tilt
if you try to DI through, they'll Turn it around.
And they'll time the UPsmash as mentioned. It doesn't take mastery of shiek as much as understanding of shieks moves and a good handle on brawl itself.

THe tilt lock ***** falcon. It can completely decimate your entire stock 0-death.
She has the advantage elsewhere too so it's not as if it's shieks only saving grace. It's 90/10.

Hell, I counter picked Jungle **** to force my friend to play his Falco instead. I fear Falco on his best level less then shiek.

 

[Player-3]

If you try to DI away they'll take tiny steps inbetween the F-Tilt
if you try to DI through, they'll Turn it around.
And they'll time the UPsmash as mentioned. It doesn't take mastery of shiek as much as understanding of shieks moves and a good handle on brawl itself.

THe tilt lock ***** falcon. It can completely decimate your entire stock 0-death.
She has the advantage elsewhere too so it's not as if it's shieks only saving grace. It's 90/10.

Hell, I counter picked Jungle **** to force my friend to play his Falco instead. I fear Falco on his best level less then shiek.

just CP sheik with ganon then..


have 0 experience against both these chars,
so gl discussing ill only post if i see something i know is wrnog

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

I'm with saltycracker on this one.
sheik is as bad as DK, in her own way.

70-30, sheiks advantage (at least)

imo, DK isnt that bad a matchup for sheik. o_o and trust me, ive played good donkey kongs that have actually combo'd me at 0% to a DK punch o_o

but on topic, reason why i wont say 70:30 and i say 35 is because of her recovery has two options, tether, or upb. if you simply hold the edge she WILL up b, and if she is close to the ledge or near it a uair can send her back out off stage. its a bad matchup for falcon, but still not as bad nonetheless because falcon does have a few advantages, and she's also pretty light.