If I think he's gonna hold shield then I grab, and if he might roll then I'll dash in close/attack, and if I think he will attack then I get in close and just wait and see what he does(occasionally attacking first.)
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- Thread starter Cactuar
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Tee ay eye
Smash Hero
umbreon
what are good websites for used-car shopping?
what are good websites for used-car shopping?
Ryobeat
Smash Ace
PP! Though I am not a Marth main, I have a question I'd like to ask you (I don't know where else to ask this, and the Marth boards are overall smarter than the Peach boards LOL); I'm having trouble with mix ups. It doesn't instinctively come to my head that I need to mix something up, and sometimes ideas for mix ups don't really come up. How do I build a mentality for not doing the same thing over and over? Everytime I do fix it, I forget the next day; so im not sure on how to enforce this. Help from anyone would be appreciated!
D
Deleted member
Guest
cargurus.com
cars.com
kbb.com
craigslist
specialty forums for the make you're looking for.
we can keep going. that should keep you busy for a few days.
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
Are you looking for help on not being predictable? Be more specific as to what you are trying to mix up. But yes, we are much smarter here :]
You should probably also specify against what characters/situations/or even weight class
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
Ryobeat...how could you...
First consider everything you do. If you don't know everything you do, then watch yourself more closely in matches or look for habits you have in matches(it's not hard it's your own brain after all.) Think about why you make every single decision.
Once you have that, then you can decide how people can avoid your current habits and that's when you can build your habits and change them to cover more options or to adapt with/ahead of the opponent.
Or you could always just tell yourself to do a couple different general things like "be more patient," "attack more," "stay moving" and see if that influences your matches well enough.
The point is everyone is different and it'll be work but getting to basics is how I always think people should improve. =)
Ryobeat
Smash Ace
So generally your saying to watch what I do in matches/ tell myself to change things up and I will fix this problem over time? GAH, okay , I understand 
Its just that the few things I do need to work on "take time" and sometimes it gets discouraging to not get instant gratification, but that means I will just push harder.
Its just that the few things I do need to work on "take time" and sometimes it gets discouraging to not get instant gratification, but that means I will just push harder.
you should get instant results if you're observing yourself. you watch what you do, you see it, you remember it, you evaluate it. it's that easy lol.
The Business
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2012
- Messages
- 249
I used to play StarCraft Broodwar, and this advice is hella true for that game as well. When you're playing starcraft or smash brothers, in the game you feel like you're playing very well, super fast, not messing up etc.
But when you go to the replay you aren't hitting all the buttons and you can see what you did wrong, and at the start you'll find out you're doing a lot of **** very wrong.
pretty much if you're serious about getting better at smash, find a way to record the games you play and watch them, it will be very easy to figure out what you're doing wrong and what to work on.
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
Self observation and analysis is applicable to near everything. It's been an absolute staple of competitive chess for over a century.
Agreed with The Business, the reason I improved very fast at Broodwar was because of the replay function and that I sat down after every match and saw my mistakes.
I recently aquired a capture card so I can do this in Melee too. Never been able to before.
I recently aquired a capture card so I can do this in Melee too. Never been able to before.
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
Pp you almost convinced me to main martg again....HA...HAHAHAHAHA
Divinokage
Smash Legend
And now? Did he convince you? Marth sucks? ..
Eagerly awaiting PP's thoughts on the Sheik matchup. Mad props for sticking it out with Marth, although it almost hurt to watch you slap around M2K in WFs.
I'm so jealous of your movement. Shoutouts to dtilt as well.
Are you going to try to improve your spiking? You messed up/missed out on a lot of them, the one that closed out G4 notwithstanding. Have you been spoiled by falco's dair
? Sometimes going for all those fairs paid off (like in the last match on yoshi's), but overall I thought you could've hit more of them and it would've been good. Then again, what's my opinion worth lol. Still, some people (PPU) make spikes materialize out of thin air, and it's both an effective stock-ender and demoralization tool. Anyways, if you were to try and work in more dair, I'd love to hear how you went about it; I don't get nearly enough dair kills
It was cool to see the varying success of the whole "just throw them up and mash the controller on your face" play out. Sometimes you caught his double jump and got huge punishes, especially on FD, but sometimes you couldn't react in time/made a bad read and ended up not only not following up, but getting hit by something as M2K fell. Interesting stuff, psyched for your thoughts.
I'm so jealous of your movement. Shoutouts to dtilt as well.
Are you going to try to improve your spiking? You messed up/missed out on a lot of them, the one that closed out G4 notwithstanding. Have you been spoiled by falco's dair
? Sometimes going for all those fairs paid off (like in the last match on yoshi's), but overall I thought you could've hit more of them and it would've been good. Then again, what's my opinion worth lol. Still, some people (PPU) make spikes materialize out of thin air, and it's both an effective stock-ender and demoralization tool. Anyways, if you were to try and work in more dair, I'd love to hear how you went about it; I don't get nearly enough dair kills It was cool to see the varying success of the whole "just throw them up and mash the controller on your face" play out. Sometimes you caught his double jump and got huge punishes, especially on FD, but sometimes you couldn't react in time/made a bad read and ended up not only not following up, but getting hit by something as M2K fell. Interesting stuff, psyched for your thoughts.
.Chipmunk.
Smash Ace
PP still sucks with marth tho....
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Lol wtf, he's done the impossible though.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,545
blue marth is ass kevin
Shimesaba
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2012
- Messages
- 81
PP definitely still looked more like a really good player who happened to choose Marth than a Marth main tonight. Dude left a lot of openings by going for moves that are unsafe even on hit (kind of a foreign idea to Falco players) and more than a few of those fairs should've been spikes.
That said, the movement is still amazing. PP's dashdancing makes Armada and M2K both look dumb. With a little bit more character experience this dude is going to be tearing everyone up. (Even more than he already was.)
That said, the movement is still amazing. PP's dashdancing makes Armada and M2K both look dumb. With a little bit more character experience this dude is going to be tearing everyone up. (Even more than he already was.)
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
seriously considering playing marth again may drop the falco and go marth peach..we'll see. You make me want to believe
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
Anyways, I'd like to see M2K PP marth dittos. It wouldn't prove who's the better Marth but I'd still like to see it.
@strawhats I thought doc didn't like marth though? Maybe I'm out of the loop but that does not surprise me that shroomed/doc would lose to a good marth
This has happened, many times. Historically, PP always lost. That is, until yesterday, where PP 3-0'd M2K in a depressingly brutal manner in WF's at Xanadu. All the theory-bros with Umbreon payed off in a big way, haha.
Shroomed's doc and axe's pikachu get so much marth practice, it's their best MUs so shroomed finally losing two sets in a row to PPU is impressive on PPU's part even though PPU, also named Kevin, gets just as much marth vs doc practice because he and shroomed live together. Point is Dajuan and axe never lose to marth with their respective characters in tournament sets so the fact that it happened to one of em is pretty big.
Stylez
Smash Cadet
PP and PPU: Showing Marths that there is some light at the end of the tunnel
Divinokage
Smash Legend
There was always a light, you just need to at least become a top 10 player!
outofphase
Smash Apprentice
did not think you could pull that off even as it was happening pp. think you could do a quick run-down of what you believe marth's mu spread is? i also heard you say you believe the stage list is good for marth, care to elaborate?
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
Poor M2k...I probably would have been slightly upset watching it but I still wish I saw that. Hopefully it gets uploaded (or the stream is archived). And yeah I know they ditto'd before, I just wanted to see it currently. Similar to how I'd like I'd like to see Mango's falcon vs Hax's falcon right now. Mango beat him in the past (and Darkrain historically and S2j recently but I'm assuming historically as well) while styling the entire match, but I'd put my money on Hax being clearly the best falcon currently.
DuckPimp
Smash Ace
i think m2k shrugged it off and cited himself not playing well and pp playing well
he gave a great fight with his sheik though, really flashy. vs ESAM too
he gave a great fight with his sheik though, really flashy. vs ESAM too
G6 2, 2011, more later in this set, also features glorious s0ft commentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Sn1yxc6Dmc&t=27s
Zenith, 2012: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iTKxosywts&t=4m
There's probably more but those were the sets I was thinking of.
Zenith, 2012: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iTKxosywts&t=4m
There's probably more but those were the sets I was thinking of.
This seems to catch all comments made up to this point.Eagerly awaiting PP's thoughts on the Sheik matchup. Mad props for sticking it out with Marth, although it almost hurt to watch you slap around M2K in WFs.
I'm so jealous of your movement. Shoutouts to dtilt as well.
Are you going to try to improve your spiking? You messed up/missed out on a lot of them, the one that closed out G4 notwithstanding. Have you been spoiled by falco's dair
It was cool to see the varying success of the whole "just throw them up and mash the controller on your face" play out. Sometimes you caught his double jump and got huge punishes, especially on FD, but sometimes you couldn't react in time/made a bad read and ended up not only not following up, but getting hit by something as M2K fell. Interesting stuff, psyched for your thoughts.
The way I get hits, I don't get spikes so much. I could be a little better at getting them out frame-perfectly I suppose, but in general I need to Fair more and take the guaranteed damage instead of do those risky combo finishers vs positional losers.
And yes, I could have been better about controlling M2K as he fell. That art is difficult but it can be mastered....the point to remember is that he was not always killing me on hit either so me breaking out is okay just like him breaking out is. Melee is really freaking hard to 0-death someone in lol. I think throwing them up then wrecking them is far superior to Fthrow OMFG GUESS ROFL though and optimal punish strategies from that upward hit/throw position are where we should be looking to improve.
I spent a lot of time playing M2K('s Sheik) looking for where he was hitting Marth's weaknesses. He seemed to nail me especially hard not in neutral but if I committed and didn't hit him or I was already off-balance or I was offstage. The point to remember here is that Marth can run circles around Sheik so don't be discouraged by the punishment game and you can punish Sheik hard back.
A few things:
1. Marth needs a plan for when Sheik Fairs his shield. This is going to depend on the Sheik somewhat.
2. Marth needs a plan to get back onstage vs a good Sheik. M2K liked DD grabbing anything I did so don't be afraid to get creative!
3. Sheik sucks in the air and when you haven't committed/aren't off-balance. Focus on your movement advantage and your juggle advantage to ruin Sheik's momentum and win!
Marth's tight =)
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Thats why I loathe calculators.. so ****ing scary.. =( How do you fight someone that knows everything?
Stylez
Smash Cadet
Or someTHING!
duhduhduh
duhduhduh
How would you suggest going about getting better at this? I seem to get stuck a lot at the "throwing them up then wrecking them" part. There just seem like there are so many variables... when/if they fastfall, when/if they airdodge, if they'll come down with an aerial and when and which kind, if they'll go for a platform or ledgecancel... I find it frustrating to just get u-throw->u-air->nothing because I swing too early, or just get hit because I wait too long baiting things out. Might just be scrub problems though.
With regards to the last part of this,I feel like the soft reverse hit on top of fair is underutilized too, it's really cool for manipulating people onto/off of platforms or off stage, and has a nice amount of hitstun that links well into another fair or u-air.
This made me laugh. Hahaha... yeah.
Can you expand on point 1 a bit? Whenever I get faired, Sheik usually does some jab/tilt witchcraft and all of the sudden I've been grabbed or tic-grabbed, or they'll jab once or twice and call a roll/wd/jump/whatever.
I feel more comfortable with points two and three. My mixups are alright, and my proudest moment in tournament so far was 0-170-deathing a Sheik who's a much better player than I am by u-air u-air u-air u-airing off the top of FD
Marth's movement and juggle games really are a blessing against Sheik.Thanks for the post and congratulations on your victory!
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
I struggled a lot with this same concept when fighting Peach (sheik vs peach). Technically when you have a fast attack like fair (for sheik) and they hit your shield, a sheik jab will beat any action that you can take (other than staying in shield but that's a whole other topic). Sheik's jab hits on frame 2 and fair is -1 when placed correctly so you have 3 frames to act (there is not an action that can get you away from the jab in 3 frames). But, sheik has to space it perfectly meaning as low to the ground as physically possible and jab as soon as possible. This is where buffering can save you, marth is invincible on the 4th frame of his roll. If sheik is frame perfect she wins still, but if she is not, you can buffer a roll from your shield using the c-stick instead of the analog stick. Just hold it in the direction you want to roll while you are in shield stun and that should help you.
If you get fair->jabbed on shield it is kind of already too late unless the sheik is being slow because the second jab will beat your buffered roll. Just keep in mind that being in shield is a disadvantaged position under ideal circumstances for sheik.
Essentially, buffered roll beats non-perfect fair->jab is all I am saying before someone tries to accuse me of thinking logica- I mean playing super theory bros.
Be wary of always rolling and also keep in mind that sheik can do all kinds of things.
fair ->jab
fair ->jabx2
fair ->grab
fair ->tilts
fair -> some kind of movement
tomahawk (which is soooooo freaking good with sheik)
If the sheik you are facing are making calls on your rolls/jumps/w/e from shield then keep in mind that sheik is making a call. She is basically going to do a mix of what I listed above and chose options based on whether or not they work or your tendencies. Be aware that you can mix up your spacing to avoid getting fair'd then mix up your OoS options so that way sheik can't keep making calls on you.
The best generic advice I can give against sheik is to not lot her in. Once she gets in, she can CG you at lower percents and flat out beat your swinging speed and punishing your landings and you'll get combed. I main sheik I luv fighting marth
http://www.smashboards.com/threads/309694/
http://www.smashboards.com/threads/278616/
Those 2 threads especially the last 1 helped me deal with things like getting trapped in shield or punished because you were in shield. Frame data is so freaking good and adds a level of understanding that you can form into practicality. At worst, it helps you understand why and what things are too fast/too slow.
MT_
Smash Ace
Shield grab the jab. If she does double jab then shield grab the second jab.
ZIngaZ
Smash Cadet
Yeah seriously would like a link to the videos! After watching PP face Armada I want to see where his Marth will go