CG vs fox and falco

[smasher01]

cant they shine out of the chaingrab at like 21% or somthing and cant thay DI
wierd so thay drop down in the middle of you so you can grab them from eather
side un less u pivit grab.

how do you prevent escape from marths Chaingrab with out them shining out?

 

[DtJ Jungle]

you cant. at like 21% if they dont DI they can shine out of it. if they keep di'ing you can do it for a little longer...but you shouldnt want to do it past like 30 anyway...

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Actually if you pivot grab, the shine won't hit you and you can grab them. That's only after 20% though.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

but once your at like 30...and you can do the like utilt regrab...is it even really worth cg? he's talking about a point where like...i dunno you can start do things...other than cg

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Well between twenty and thirty, you have to do something =P You can't utilt regrab at twenty, so you're stuck with pivot chaingrabs.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

meh...true...you and mog always pwn my advice

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Sorry... =(

 

[VEEN]

yes they can shine out of it but you can pivot grab them

for fox

30% or more = one up tilt, grab, up throw, up air, fsmash

 

[ComboTurtle]

whats the % that falco can shine out

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Should be around twenty too, I think.

 

[smasher01]

so if i pivit grab they can not shine out of ot at 21%

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Not if you do it right.

 

[smasher01]

how do u do it just like really fast lol

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Dash away, dash in, jump cancel grab. Pretty easy, really.

 

[SHDW23]

is doing a pivot grab of any length going to prevent getting shined, or do you have to be a certain distance away?

 

[ComboTurtle]

Dash away, dash in, jump cancel grab. Pretty easy, really.

isnt a pivot grab where u do it on the frame where marth is standing upright inbetween turning around from the initial dash? you wouldnt really have to jc grab, but yeah i doubt many people can do that too well.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

its really easy...

 

[ComboTurtle]

hitting the grab on the single standing upright frame? idk i just jc grab like elven said, i was just picking at straws, however i would still like to know when falco can shine out because you cant pivot grab him until later.

 

[Church]

If I'm not mistaken I believe that in the same frames they try and shine out of the grab you'll be starting the pivot animation (dash away) and return with a JC grab.

 

[smasher01]

i know how to pivit grab but when i do it i just get shined.
am i not doing it fast enought?

 

[VEEN]

you are not doing it fast enough, its dash away dash back (really quick) and JC grab
can you JC grab?

 

[elvenarrow3000]

You don't really have to worry about the pivot frame, since you're jump canceling it anyway, which can be done out of a dash. You don't have to get too far away... ummm...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=843AovFJg-I&fmt=18

It's the grab at 29%.

 

[RaynEX]

When you pivot grab you have to make sure to NOT run underneath them.

You run away then turn around and pivot grab. If you run underneath them, the shine hits you before you can turn around and pivot. If you run back and pivot grab you dodge the shine and get the grab.

 

[Sybawave]

So Pivot Grabs are DA dashes with a grab rather than dash away then back and JC Grab?

 

[elvenarrow3000]

You CAN actually pivot the pivot grab, if you're a masochist. But it's easiest to just dash out, dash in and jmp cancel grab.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

i was trying this earlier.
i know how to do it.
but i mess up a lot.

my temporary solution was to just hit with that weak utilt if they don't DI my uthrow...

 

[Sybawave]

That's fail lol I've been doing it perfectly...because my opponents don't know about the whole shine out at 20% thing XD and they try to DI but I still catch them lol

But is it better just to DA Dash Grab or Dash JC Grab?

I think JC Grabbing them is harder than the DA Dash...but which one is safer?

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Jump cancel grabbing is definitely easier to do... since all you have to do is jump cancel a grab, whereas if you were actually pivoting, you'd have to do that like... one or two frame window thing. Plus, I feel like it's easier to control where you are with the jump cancel grab, and since they can't break out of it anyway, why not just use the easier option?

 

[LumpyCPU...]

everyone knows to just not DI and spam downB. haha
so i should really get the pivot grabs down.