Official Character Competitive Impressions - Tourneys, Tiers, Theories, Tactics

[Radical Larry]

Honestly, we can barely agree on anything regarding characters that have been in this game for over a year. To argue over 2 unreleased characters is foolish.

Cloud being beaten by Link and Ganondorf is something people will barely agree or disagree with. Yeah, the guy's got range and all of his options, but the latter two can actually punish him for using the wrong moves, both characters can beat his U-Air and both characters take the cake for actually beating Cloud's recovery with their own gimping methods. If it seriously takes an F-Tilt from Ganondorf to send you into death at 40%, that's pathetic.

Some people may agree Cloud could have an even with Ganondorf and Link and provide proof with that, some people may agree Cloud is better and provide proof, but you know...

It's all subjective right? I mean, people often have the paradigm set for them whenever they go against people. Look at me for example, I think Link can possibly be a high tier character if people give him time. People will disagree because they have a set paradigm about Link. People will say that he's close because they have a different paradigm.

So really, the reason we barely agree on anything regarding characters (and it is even characters who've been out since release) is because we all have paradigms and believe whichever character may be good or bad. People just have to actually understand the other side of the argument instead of shoving their side down other's throats and not have it refuted by others.

(But I still believe Cloud might be top 20 if he has an even or a disadvantageous MU against Ganondorf)

 

[BetaDjinn]

What do you guys think is the most overhyped character in the game? I think it's .

I can't believe people have already coronated Mewtwo as a solid mid-high tier with almost no tournament results. He was garbage before the patch (denied by some) and is still pretty bad. No way he's outside of the bottom 20

Come at me theorycrafters

 

[jespoke]

Well, im sorta happy that people are seeing the potential weaknesses of the new characters already, gives me hope that Bayonetta will end up not in the top of the crop. Having a very wild big strength big weakness character at the top usually means the balance between the two is way off. How well her combos actually work (along with several unforeseen factors probably) will be the big linchpin of where she ends up. Lots of damage racking with combos is a lot better of a single shining factor than a lot of the low tier characters though, so even if everything else is meh she could be decent.

Edit: Eep, im sorry, i got caught up in the topic.

 

[Linkshot]

With the sheer amount of different tools and range Corrin has, the only way I can see them being worse than Pit is if their moves function as bad as Bowser Jr's. To me, he was a promising character with a cool kit and then everything just fell apart. SH bAir can't hit standing stout opponents, jab doesn't link, etc. Corrin is currently in "promising character with a cool kit" from what I've seen but anything can go wrong.

Also while the graphic on Bayo's jab starts on frame 7, I'd gander the hitbox activates frame 8 (but that's at a really bad spacing, so f9 is the important one here). Still better than Palu's jab

 

[Wintropy]

Cloud being beaten by Link and Ganondorf is something people will barely agree or disagree with. Yeah, the guy's got range and all of his options, but the latter two can actually punish him for using the wrong moves, both characters can beat his U-Air and both characters take the cake for actually beating Cloud's recovery with their own gimping methods. If it seriously takes an F-Tilt from Ganondorf to send you into death at 40%, that's pathetic.

I think this is really overstating their advantages and Cloud's disadvantages. You have to put yourself in an insanely vulnerable (read: suicidal) position for them to have any kind of opportunity to punish him to that extent.

Cloud is safer than most sword characters and has no problem getting kill confirms. I don't know how they can compete with that.

It's all subjective right? I mean, people often have the paradigm set for them whenever they go against people. Look at me for example, I think Link can possibly be a high tier character if people give him time. People will disagree because they have a set paradigm about Link. People will say that he's close because they have a different paradigm.

So really, the reason we barely agree on anything regarding characters (and it is even characters who've been out since release) is because we all have paradigms and believe whichever character may be good or bad. People just have to actually understand the other side of the argument instead of shoving their side down other's throats and not have it refuted by others

That's not really how it goes. People don't have set objective paradigms by which they just a character's viability, it's an organic process that's prone to change and reconsideration over time, but it is based on non-abstract criteria. People's opinions may differ, but the boxes you need to tick off remain the same. Some characters just don't have what it takes to beat others, and no amount of theorycraft or emphatic statements will change that.

If you want to prove Ganondorf beats Cloud, go out and prove it. That's the only thing that will ever entice people to your side of the fence.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I can't believe people have already coronated Mewtwo as a solid mid-high tier with almost no tournament results. He was garbage before the patch (denied by some) and is still pretty bad. No way he's outside of the bottom 20

Come at me theorycrafters

Blue has placed or won regionals and locals. MewSquared also has great results with him. So the question is what are you talking about?

 

[Radical Larry]

Well, I had something clever to say, but I guess I forgot about it. Ah crap, well nevermind, I forgot what it was supposed to be.

If you want to prove Ganondorf beats Cloud, go out and prove it. That's the only thing that will ever entice people to your side of the fence.

I've beaten some Clouds on Anther's Ladder before and I'm going to try finding some really good ones to go against.

 

[wedl!!]

To play devil's advocate, Zelda and Ganondorf have decent results at locals.

However, Mewtwo is straight up a far better character because his design is actually functional.

 

[Locke 06]

What is safe with Cloud?

Spaced BAir, Ftilt, and NAir? And kinda cross Slash 1/2? If he jumps, there's no reason for you not to run under him and shield. Late DAir and late up air is safe, but why are you letting that hit your shield? Edit: powershield FAir. It's not hard.

Fwiw, been talking to a villager who is having trouble adapting to Cloud's lingering disjoints and thinks Dorf might do better than both Ike and Villager in terms of MU. So he's not alone.

Cloud ftilt outranges link jab1 which is significant in that MU.

 

[Blobface]

Cloud Vs. Ganon is a silly matchup. Cloud totally trounces Ganon in neutral, but Ganon can absolutely crush Cloud once he lands a hit, especially if Cloud gets sent offstage.

Slightly in Cloud's favor IMO.

 

[Shaya]

http://smashboards.com/threads/first-official-4br-smash-for-wii-u-tier-list.429817/

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new thread coming soon~