Character Win:Loss Ratios --> Using Tournament Data for char. ratios? --> Year 2009

[Ingulit]

Meta Knight
Falco
0-1
0:100

I seriously have no clue if that means Falco won 100% and is bad for Meta Knight, or if Falco lost 100% of the time and is bad for Falco. The colors didn't help, because it could mean either thing.

 

[Flayl]

It means Falco, statistically, is a bad matchup for MK. Red is associated with disadvantage, also the 0 -1 should have tipped you off: 0 Metaknight - 1 Falco

 

[SuSa]

Concerning it's only 1 match though, that's not very good data yet.

Once I get a large amount of sources, the data will become more and more true I feel.

 

[SuSa]

This list has been updated with several new tournament results. I spent the last 4 hours of my night tracking down videos and brackets to be able to give it some updates.

I will continue doing this, but really people. I'd love to see some help here.

I left off @:

TOURNAMENT: Hardcore Extreme Ragefest Beatdown

On this txt file:
http://theviashino.com/ssbb/tournaments-2009-2.txt

(CTRL+F is your friend! )

Remember, only tourneys with 25+ entrants, and only certain rounds. (Count 8 from GF (9 if double GF) from Winners, and 10 from Losers. (Far right and far left of bracket respectfully)

I'll try to get an example of how to find the rounds that count ASAP.

This is a lot of work, and I would really appreciate community help. Not just me and Shaya.

 

[Shaya]

I started from 2009-3.txt about half way through with only this much :| Oh wellz.
Best thing to be recommended is making sure people have the brackets of matches, makes life sooo good.


-Wings and Brew II: Chicken Teriyaki
-http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=7309440#post7309440
-http://allisbrawl.com/brackets/bracket5065.gif

Meta : Diddy (3-2) [Overswarm v AlphaZealot | GF]
Meta : Diddy (3-1) [Overswarm v AlphaZealot | WF]

Diddy : Toon Link (3-1) [AlphaZealot v Quivo | LF]

Meta : Olimar (2-0) [Zach v Paranormal Sin | LB]

-

;Kakoha Me Your Moves (MWC-W Event 3)
;http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=7313758

Pikachu : Meta (3-0) [Anther v Affinity | GF]
Pikachu : Snake (3-1) [Anther v Joker | WF]

Snake : Meta (2-1) [Joker vs Domo | WB]
Pikachu : Meta (2-0) [Anther vs Affinity | WB]

Meta : Snake (3-0) [Affinity v Joker | LF]

-

;Hams Off my Bread I: Don't Fry Me
;http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=233419

Snake : Jigglypuff (1-0) [POPS v Framerate | WB]
Wario : Jigglypuff (1-0) [POPS v Framerate | WB]

Marth : ROB (1-0) [Beegs v T-800 | LB]
Marth : Meta (1-0) [Beegs v T-800 | LB]

 

[Marcbri]

Meta Knight


Pikachu
5-6
45:55

Losers:Mikel (Pikachu) 2- 0 El_Bardo (MK)
Mikel (Pikachu) 2-0 Urulok (MK)
Pikachu : Meta (3-0) [Anther v Affinity | GF]
Pikachu : Snake (3-1) [Anther v Joker | WF]

found another mistake, it should be 10-1 pika ( lol ), the mistake is in the first two matches I think, which weren't processed by the programm

it's starting to look more accurate

 

[TheReflexWonder]

This is neat. I'll start keeping a note of all the matches I play in tournament for this.

 

[Shaya]

Losers:Mikel (Pikachu) 2- 0 El_Bardo (MK)
Mikel (Pikachu) 2-0 Urulok (MK)
Pikachu : Meta (3-0) [Anther v Affinity | GF]
Pikachu : Snake (3-1) [Anther v Joker | WF]

found another mistake, it should be 10-1 pika ( lol ), the mistake is in the first two matches I think, which weren't processed by the programm

it's starting to look more accurate

First two were included. Mine and your original posts were the initial data I used to test the program/see it worked.

The last two I only just posted, and Susa hasn't popped those in yet...
Not all 'results' being used have been posted in this thread; Susa lists which tournaments data has been taken from; and the sources relating to those can be requested if wanted. :O


---

Reflex, you're totally gonna skew this list in Pokemon Trainer's favour

 

[SuSa]

I am currently at my friends house until 4~pm at which time I will update the list with the data Shaya has given me.

I will also be adding my matches from my tourney that I remember playing.

(Snake vs Falco - 1-0; Snake vs Wario - 1-0, Snake vs Pit 0-1, Falco vs Peach 0-1, Marth vs Diddy Kong 0-1, Snake vs Diddy Kong 0-1. My other 2 sets don't fit the requirements.)

EDIT:
Updated

 

[bigman40]

I'll statr noting my sets from people when I know what rounds are supposed to count

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

This is cool, I'll try to help you out Susa.

 

[SuSa]

@Bigman

Take a look at the bracket.

From the winners side, count 8 or 9 matches/sets from the winner winner. (9 ONLY if it is a double grand final)

From the losers bracket, count 10 matches/sets (normally goes 3 'columns' from the left and 3 from the right)

 

[Shaya]

5 columns from the left, 4 columns from the right (5 if it's a double set grand final)...

 

[chimpact]

Wow, diddy is 3-0 vs marth?

 

[Xebenkeck]

^^^don't be flattered after only three matches wait until about 30 or so are recorded, then if diddy is like 25-5 then there is something to fret about.

 

[Dream Chaser]

Nice work.
Yeah, it'll probably take some time before the numbers take shape into realistic figures but should be good when it does
Will there be any way of accounting for any shifting in the metagame? (making more recent battles worth more than older ones?)

 

[SuSa]

5 columns from the left, 4 columns from the right (5 if it's a double set grand final)...

Stop making me feel so stupid. :'(

Wow, diddy is 3-0 vs marth?

Considering one of those wins was Dao vs my Marth (I really have no idea why I went Marth...) it should really be like 2.5-0 lol (Dao got 3rd at that tourney, I got 9th)

But uhm.... once we get more matches (see: MK vs Wario and MK vs Snake) they really start to become more realistic. Obviously things can still change, and until people start to contribute and I get a large amount of data (40-50 tournaments) I really wouldn't take these numbers to mind.

I mean Pit has a 100:0 on MK? lolololol

^^^don't be flattered after only three matches wait until about 30 or so are recorded, then if diddy is like 25-5 then there is something to fret about.

"this"

Nice work.
Yeah, it'll probably take some time before the numbers take shape into realistic figures but should be good when it does
Will there be any way of accounting for any shifting in the metagame? (making more recent battles worth more than older ones?)

No, I will not. Simply because IIRC Ankoku's list doesn't shift for that....Obviously if one character gets better and people start to win more - that will change the results.

I will start a list probably every 6 months - 1 year..... I can't update it all the time like Ankoku's because I have far less contributers, and if I kept ridding of data every 3 months, the results would always be small and wouldn't mean much.

However if most every TO started to record win/loss (I want to speak to nealdt to update Tio to actually be able to record win/loss and incorperate a way to include it into the bracket. Then it will be far easier for people to do without vids....because right now almost all of my data is from videos, people telling me (Shaya/Fiction), or my own memory (my scores)

 

[Shaya]

Or me propositioning the individual character boards to help...
Like this:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=239016

 

[SuSa]

I am on vacation for 2~ weeks with family. I won't be able to get on much, and I will be able to update in 2 weeks.

Try to keep posting links to information so I can do a massive update when I get back. =]

 

[SuSa]

So... I'd like to thank everyone for participating in this thread while I was away. MissingNo, Don Exits, and The Invisible Man.



I'll find stuff to update this soon, just got back from my vacation.

 

[SuSa]

Currently updating with results I got from 2 tourneys ago. Will look for results from my previous tourney to add more as well.

Seriously.. I still want this around.

 

[chimpact]

NICE Diddy ls like 5-1 against marth now. Dekar lost to mikehaze but dojo/gnes both beat him and they were in the top 5.

 

[SuSa]

I need tourney/videos etc.

(I was watching the livestream though)

It also depends how far into the bracket they were...

 

[Samuelson]

This is actually a pretty awesome thread.

 

[Shaya]

Results from zah Marth boards

May 2009

Tournament Name: You.Three
Tournament details: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=233461, May 8th, Entrants: 24
Placement: 2nd
Other chars: None
Bracket: http://www.youthree.net/smash/images/results/b_sin_may_09.gif
VIDEOS: None.
Match scores:

Marth : Game (2-0) (Against T-Block)
Marth : Meta (2-1) (Against Alphican)
Marth : Snake (0-3) (Against Superboom)
Marth : Meta (3-0) (Against Alphican)
Marth : Snake (1-4) (Against Superboom)

------

Tournament Name: Sou Kawaii
Tournament details: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=233322, Date: May 9th, Entrants: 25
Placement: 3rd
Other chars: None
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/veechu(Pretty outdated)
Bracket: http://i39.tinypic.com/xqhnoh.gif
Match scores

Marth : Falco (1-0) (Against Alphican)
Marth : Meta (0-2) (Against Alphican)
Marth : Pikachu (2-0) (Against Frio)
Marth : Ness (2-0) (Against ColinJF)
Marth : Snake (1-3) (Against Superboom)

June 2009

-Tournament Name: Something2Do
; June 6th
; Xisin
-Tournament details: 29 Entrants
-Placement 1st
http://allisbrawl.com/event.aspx?id=5378
; Match Scores

Marth : Donkey Kong (2-0) [Against Harbinger]
Marth : Olimar (2-0) [Against Zero]
Marth : Lucario (2-0) [Against Tactical]
Marth : Olimar (3-2) [Against Hilt]
Marth : Olimar (3-0) [Against Tactical]

-------------

-Tournament Name: "We Love Smashville"
; 7th of June
-Tournament details: 22 Entrants (http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7558082&postcount=1187)
-Placement: 1st
-Other chars: Dedede [minor]
-VIDEOS: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=217439
-Match scores:
Marth : Wolf (2-1) [Against tedeth - GFs]
Marth : Pokemon Trainer (3-0) [Against tcranter - LFs]
Marth : Snake (1-0) [Against luke_atyeo]
Marth : Zero Suit Samus (2-0) [Against Zero]

-Tournament Name: Brawling for Burgers-
-Tournament details: [Link, date, amount of entrants, etc] http://allisbrawl.com/ttournament.aspx?id=6257, 43 Entrants, June 20th, Bracket Results

//Raziek
-Placement: 2nd of 43
-Match scores:

Marth:Lucario (1-0) (Aginst White)
Marth:Falco (1-0) (Also against White)
Marth:Dedede (2-0) (Against Mal)
Marth:Ice Climbers (2-1) (Against Billybeegood)
Marth:Olimar (2-0) (Rematch with Matt)
Marth:Olimar (0-1) (Against Lamb)
Marth:Meta (3-1) (Also against Lamb)
Marth:Luigi (1-0) (Aginst Zhao)
Marth:Marth (0-3) (Also Zhao)

//Zhao Guang
- Placement: 1st of 43
- Other chars: Luigi, Snake

Marth : Ice Climbers (1-1) (against Billybeegood)
Marth : Marth (3-0) (against Raziek)

-------------

-Tournament Name: Sou Kawaii 2
;KillL0ck
-Tournament details: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=239339, Date: June 23rd, Entrants: 27
-Placement: 3rd
-Other chars: None
-VIDEOS: None right now.
-Bracket: http://i41.tinypic.com/rcv4np.gif
-Match scores:

Marth : MetaK (2-0)(Against Alphican)
Marth : Pokemon Trainer (2-0) (Against Mike Wong)
Marth : Snake (0-3) (Against Superboom)
Marth : Game (0-3) (Against Alphican)
Marth : Falco (1-0) (Against Alphican)

-------------

-Tournament Name: World 1-2 June 1st
;MikeHaze
-Tournament Details: http://allisbrawl.com/event.aspx?id=5511 \ 25 entrants
-Placement: 1st
Videos:
-
-Match Scores

Marth : Pit (2-0) [Against Awesome]
Marth : Meta (2-0) [Against NOforce]
Marth : Snake (3-0) [Against JonT]
Marth : Snake (3-1) [Against JonT]

-------------

-Tournament Name: SITB V June 26th
;MikeHaze
-http://allisbrawl.com/ttournament.aspx?id=6505
-Placement: 1st. 36 Entrants
Videos:
-

-Match Scores

Marth : Olimar (2-0) Defeated RichBrown
Marth : Falco (2-1) Defeated DEHF
Marth : Meta (2-1) Defeated DSF
Marth : Meta (3-2) Defeated Tyrant

July... probably isn't completed

;Eazy
-?
-Placement: 3rd
Marth : Wario (2-0)
Marth : Donkey (2-1)
Marth : Pit (2-1)
Marth : Falco (2-0) [Against Keitaro]
Marth : Meta (1-3) [Against Jbandrew]
Marth : Meta (0-3) [Against ksizzle]

-------------

; Xisin
-Tournament Name: Kakuna Matata 
-July 11th
http://allisbrawl.com/event.aspx?id=5682
-Tournament Details: 35 entrants 10 dollar entry
-Placement: 4th

-2-0 vs Sonic
-2-0 vs Lucario
Marth : Snake (2-0) (Against Smash)
Marth : Snake (0-2) (Against Infern)

Losers
Marth : Olimar (2-0) (Against Hilt)
Marth : Meta (1-2) (Against Smash)

-------------

; Xisin
-Tournament Name: Smash at the Arcade I.
- July 26th
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242569
- Tournament Details: 37 Entrants 10 dollar
-Placement: 2nd

-defeated sonic 2-0
-defeated shiek 2-0
Marth : Meta Knight [Against Overswarm]
Marth : Falco (2-0) [Against Champ]
-defeated snake/mk 3-1 [Against Eduardo Sanc]
Marth : Snake (1-3) [Against Nope]
Marth : Snake (2-3) [Against Nope]

-------------

; MikeHaze
-Tournament Name: Evo 2009
- July 17/18th
http://allisbrawl.com/event.aspx?id=5725
-Tournament Details: 128 Entrants.
-Placement 3rd

Marth : Snake (1-3) [Against Ally]
Marth : Meta Knight (2-3) [Against Mew2King]
Marth : Snake (3-1) [Against Ally]
Marth : Falco (2-0) [Against SK92]

-------------

;Havok
-Tournament Name: Race Tourney #9
- July 25th
-
-Placement: 2nd
;DSF
Marth : Snake (2-2)
Marth : Meta (1-0)
;Tyrant
Marth : Snake (1-0)
Marth : Falco (1-0)
Marth : Meta (0-3)

-------------

;Havok
-Tournament Name: Active Gamers
- July 26th
-Placement: 3rd

-------------

;MikeHAZE
-Tournament Name: NVGA SuperCon
- July 25th
- Placement: 1st | 62 entrants
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=243078

Marth : Diddy (3-0) [Dekar Grand Finals]
Marth : Game (3-0) [DAVE! Winner's Finals]
Marth : Olimar (2-0) [Defeated FINO (Olimar) 2-0 semis]

Evo
Doesn't include MikeHAZE as that's in Marth's july above.

Meta : Snake (3-1) [M2K vs Ally | GF]
Meta : Snake (1-3) [Tyrant vs Ally]
Snake : Climbers (1-0) [Ally v Lain]
Snake : Dedede (1-0) [Ally v Lain]
Wario : Falco (1-1) [Fiction v SK92]
Climbers : Meta (1-0) [Fiction v SK92]
Marth : Wario (2-0) [Bardull v Fiction]
Meta : Falco (1-2) [Someone v SK92]
Meta : Diddy (2-1) [Someone vs AlphaZealot]
Snake : Wario (2-1) [Ally v Fiction]
Meta : Wario (0-2) [DSF v Fiction]

I couldnt check the bracket to see if some of those matches weren't up to the cut or not; but they were high level matches none the less.

 

[SuSa]

Updating the rules...

 

[UTDZac]

Here's some info for G&W:

mk : gw (2-1)
Tournament: Final Smash 6 - Results Thread
Players: UTDZac (G&W) vs. Dojo (MK) in Losers' Semifinals
Videos: Game 1 Game 2 Game 3

gw : snake (2-1)
Tournament: Genesis - Results Thread
Players: UTDZac (G&W) vs. DSF (Snake) in tourney match (both PR players)

diddy : gw (2-1)
Tournament: HOBO 17 - Results Thread
Players: UTDZac (G&W) vs. Dojo (Diddy) in tourney match (both PR players)


---

It would be nice if in the OP at the top you could post the exact format you want people posting data as. I know you have "Character : Character (win-loss)" but it would be nice if we could just copy/paste to also include tournament thread, videos, player names, etc.

 

[SuSa]

OP updated. Thank you UTD.

 

[UTDZac]

Thought of some more:

June 2009
Final Smash 6 - http://allisbrawl.com/ttournament.aspx?id=5993
G&W : Wario (1-0) [UTDZac vs DMG, Losers' Quarterfinals]
G&W : Wario (2-1) [UTDZac vs PhantomX, Losers' Top 8]
G&W : Falco (0-1) [UTDZac vs Sethlon, Winners' Quarterfinals]

July 2009
Genesis - http://allisbrawl.com/ttournament.aspx?id=3968
G&W : Falco (0-2) [UTDZac vs DEHF, Winners' Quarterfinals]
G&W : Falco (0-2) [UTDZac vs Sk92, tourney match PR]
G&W : Sheik (1-0) [UTDZac vs Armada, Europe PR]

Yeah I suck against falcos lol...

 

[SuSa]

You forgot the -........ :'(

Updating right now.

You can also leave out the day. I just need the Month/Year

 

[UTDZac]

Whoops my bad, do you also not want the name of the tournament? I don't see it in the example.

 

[SuSa]

Name of tournament makes my life easier, but I can always just follow the link to get it usually.

 

[llamapaste]

This is a nice idea and stuff but wouldn't it take like six more months to actually get meaningful results?

 

[Shaya]

Maybe llamapaste. I'd think if every character win/loss ratios from every tournament thats been reported to Ankoku was given here, within like a month it would be pretty good data for the higher tiered characters.

Also are genesis win/loss ratios in this yet?
Like besides all the MKs in the top 8, as probably up to the top 25 or so players were of high calibur (many of them in PRs of various provinces...), there's a lot of data that could be used...

---

[M2K vs Bardull]
Meta : Falco (2-1) [M2K vs SK92]
[Ally vs M2K; two sets of GF]
[M2K vs Ally; winners finall]

[Tyrant vs Fiction]
[Tyrant vs edrees] (maybe?)
[Tyrant vs Lain]

[Fiction vs Richbrown]
[Fiction vs CO18]

[Richbrown vs JonT] ?
[Richbrown v Leepuff]

[Zex v Reflex]
[Ally v Zex]
[Ally v ADHD]
[Ally v Chip]
Toon : Climbers (2-1) [Chip v Hylian]

[ADHD v Havok]
[ADHD v Kismet]
Meta : Snake (2-0) [Havok v Ultimate Razor]

[Ally v DEHF]
[DEHF vs UTD Zac]
[DEHF v Dojo] (1)

[UTD Zac v Armada]
[UTD Zac v DSF]

- Losers

[Ally v Tyrant]
[Dojo v DEHF] (2)
Meta : Wario (2-0) [Dojo v Fiction]
Meta : Wario (1-0) [Dojo v Judge]
Meta : Marth (2-0) [Dojo v Bardull]
Meta : Marth (2-0) [Dojo v Mikehaze]

[MikeHaze v Boa]
[Bardull v Armada]

Wario : Dedede (1-0) [Fiction v Lain]
Wario : Climbers (1-0) [Fiction v Lain]
[Lain v Chip]
[Chip v CO18]
[CO18 v JonT]
[Lain v Z]?

[Tyrant v ADHD]
[ADHD v SK92]
[SK92 v UTDZac]
[SK92 v Havok]
[SK92 v DSF]
[Havok v Atomsk]

Diddy : Snake (2-1) [ADHD vs Razer]
Snake : Marth (2-0) [Razer v Zex]
[Razer v Kismet]
Snake : Peach (1-0) [Razer v Edrees]
Snake : Bowser (1-0) [Razer v Edrees]
Climbers : Game (2-0) [Hylian v Leepuff]
[Zex v Richbrown]

Meta : Climbers (2-0) [Zex v Hylian]

[DSF v f0cus]?
[Atomsk v c@nip]
[Bardull v DAO]
[Lain v Light]f

 

[UTDZac]

I agree that within a few months (probably more) we can have some really good statistics to look at. I like looking at numbers.

 

[Shaya]

If anyone has any idea of the battle ratios between the list above (the person on the left was the winner), including their characters. that would be great :O

Hylian?

UTD Zac <3?

Texas love? :D <3 :D

 

[UTDZac]

I'm not sure what you're asking Shaya

 

[Hylian]

I have mine >_>.

Hylian(IC's) vs GDX(Diddy) 2-0
Hylian(IC's) vs Chip(TL) 1-2
Hylian(IC's) vs LeePuff(GW) 2-0
Hylian(IC's) vs Zex(MK) 0-2

 

[SuSa]

Upppdatteeed.

 

[Shaya]

---

[M2K vs Bardull]
Meta : Falco (2-1) [M2K vs SK92]
[Ally vs M2K; two sets of GF]
[M2K vs Ally; winners finall]

[Tyrant vs Fiction]
[Tyrant vs edrees] (maybe?)
[Tyrant vs Lain]

[Fiction vs Richbrown]
[Fiction vs CO18]

[Richbrown vs JonT] ?
[Richbrown v Leepuff]

[Zex v Reflex]
[Ally v Zex]
[Ally v ADHD]
[Ally v Chip]
Toon : Climbers (2-1) [Chip v Hylian]

[ADHD v Havok]
[ADHD v Kismet]
Meta : Snake (2-0) [Havok v Ultimate Razor]

[Ally v DEHF]
[DEHF vs UTD Zac]
[DEHF v Dojo] (1)

[UTD Zac v Armada]
[UTD Zac v DSF]

- Losers

[Ally v Tyrant]
[Dojo v DEHF] (2)
Meta : Wario (2-0) [Dojo v Fiction]
Meta : Wario (1-0) [Dojo v Judge]
Meta : Marth (2-0) [Dojo v Bardull]
Meta : Marth (2-0) [Dojo v Mikehaze]

[MikeHaze v Boa]
[Bardull v Armada]

Wario : Dedede (1-0) [Fiction v Lain]
Wario : Climbers (1-0) [Fiction v Lain]
[Lain v Chip]
[Chip v CO18]
[CO18 v JonT]
[Lain v Z]?

[Tyrant v ADHD]
[ADHD v SK92]
[SK92 v UTDZac]
[SK92 v Havok]
[SK92 v DSF]
[Havok v Atomsk]

Diddy : Snake (2-1) [ADHD vs Razer]
Snake : Marth (2-0) [Razer v Zex]
[Razer v Kismet]
Snake : Peach (1-0) [Razer v Edrees]
Snake : Bowser (1-0) [Razer v Edrees]
Climbers : Game (2-0) [Hylian v Leepuff]
[Zex v Richbrown]
Meta : Climbers (2-0) [Zex v Hylian]

[DSF v f0cus]?
[Atomsk v c@nip]
[Bardull v DAO]
[Lain v Light]

Filling out a little bit... + bringing to new page so Zac knows what i'm talking about? :o