Charizard Tactical Discussion

[PkTrainerCris]

Charizards glide is not that predictable, you can make it faster or slower by tilting down or up, so taht can mess with the timing of sidestepping, and you can land behind them to avoid shielgrabbing

 

[Charizard92]

Yep, well, the actual use of this depends on how much you actually glide. I rarely do (as it it typically possible to recover without it when you are above the stage and over the chasms) so I might not use it that much. Someone else might and it might be very useful.

 

[Knyaguy]

Yep, well, the actual use of this depends on how much you actually glide. I rarely do (as it it typically possible to recover without it when you are above the stage and over the chasms) so I might not use it that much. Someone else might and it might be very useful.

Whenever I use it I get punnished, I can never get the timming for the attact right.

 

[Onxy]

About Dsmash from before, I think it would work best out of shield. Like if someone hits your shield with a smash attack, then just punish with Dsmash. It has the range and startup speed.

 

[Charizard92]

Eh, still don't use the Dsmash really.

 

[Mangme]

Well actually, the glide attack can be useful if your opponent shields. Cause you can cancel it without hitting the person and instantly come out with a grab.

 

[Toby.]

Well actually, the glide attack can be useful if your opponent shields. Cause you can cancel it without hitting the person and instantly come out with a grab.

True.

10Truths

 

[Mangme]

I've noticed that if you grab and shield right after, Charizard moves back a bit.

 

[Onxy]

I was just messing around with Charizard. While his jab is good, but the only reason it's not great is because of the lack of hit stun in this stupid game. You can just hold shield after the first attack and it's shielded. You can also jab Charizard out of it too..

*Sigh* What a waste of potential some moves have because of one stupid flaw. I'm reaching my boiling point with this game.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

Well actually, the glide attack can be useful if your opponent shields. Cause you can cancel it without hitting the person and instantly come out with a grab.

I was gonna said that, but then i realized it would be a lot easier for your oponent shieldgrab your glide attack

 

[Charizard92]

I still don't use the glide often, likely because I haven't seen an opportunity for it.

 

[Koga]

I need to test this, but isn't it possible to do Glide cancelled arials? Like a glide cancelled Fair would be just as good as any glide attack other gliders have

 

[Mangme]

I don't think, the only way to do this is to get the correct height and glide attack early.

 

[Koga]

yeah, sadly charizard doesn't have that, but i'm working on a new trick, you guys can test it if you want, i might post vids if i am able but: its SH flame thrower.

this might already be known, but when you do a normal standing neutral B you kinda pull back away from your opponent, but if you short hop it, then you're close enough that when you finish but they're still in some hit stun they are in grab range. this leads to cool Dthrow --> rock or fair depending on your opponents DI. i've done it a couple of times but mostly i whiff it alot after the Dtrhow. you guys try it and see what you can get

 

[Mangme]

Hm... Does anyone want to test something for me? If your opponent is off the ledge, and you jump at him and use flamethrower while aiming up, can you pull him down with you? And suicide with him? It can be a pretty surprise technique when your a stock ahead of your opponent.

 

[Toby.]

Nope, it doesn't work like that. He'll just get his recovery back.

 

[Mangme]

Oh, didn't think of that D:.

 

[Charizard92]

Yep, outside of edgeguarding, Flamethrower will not provide any source of KOing an opponent.

 

[Miles.]

DddontTrip = Me
WritetoAdriel = Adriel


DddontTrip (8:51:31 PM): all i am is Zard
writetoadriel (8:51:39 PM): ooh
writetoadriel (8:51:42 PM): you tell him up teh butt
writetoadriel (8:51:43 PM): and he wins for you
writetoadriel (8:51:44 PM): i see
writetoadriel (8:51:46 PM): good tactic
DddontTrip (8:51:46 PM): hahaha
DddontTrip (8:51:47 PM): HAHAHA

 

[Steeler]

the worst thing that can happen is that PT will get Falcon Pawnched, but then Zard won't switch out, even if he dies, because PT is too dead to be able to switch.

genius.

 

[Onxy]

*Jumps on Charizard and starts smacking his head*

*Watches Charizard fall over and throws a Pokeball at him*

*Charizard goes into the Pokeball*

*Pokeball twitches*

"C'mon"

*Pokeball twitches*

*Pokeball twitches*
...
...
...
...
...

:item9:

Yes! I caught myself a Charizard92!

*The pokemon capture soundtrack plays*

 

[Toby.]

DddontTrip = Me
WritetoAdriel = Adriel


DddontTrip (8:51:31 PM): all i am is Zard
writetoadriel (8:51:39 PM): ooh
writetoadriel (8:51:42 PM): you tell him up teh butt
writetoadriel (8:51:43 PM): and he wins for you
writetoadriel (8:51:44 PM): i see
writetoadriel (8:51:46 PM): good tactic
DddontTrip (8:51:46 PM): hahaha
DddontTrip (8:51:47 PM): HAHAHA

Such fearsome tactics!

 

[Charizard92]

*Jumps on Charizard and starts smacking his head*

*Watches Charizard fall over and throws a Pokeball at him*

*Charizard goes into the Pokeball*

*Pokeball twitches*

"C'mon"

*Pokeball twitches*

*Pokeball twitches*
...
...
...
...
...

:item9:

Yes! I caught myself a Charizard92!

*The pokemon capture soundtrack plays*

Onxy, now is NOT the time. I just went through the PSAT and I'm NOT in the mood. Now please focus on building up Charizard's metagame.

 

[Adriel]

Nuuuuu, my secret tactic has been found out! >_>

 

[Charizard92]

(Facepalm) OK, this is either my tired brain from either the PSAT, the failed attempts at beating the true arena in Kirby Super Star Ultra (Darn Masked Dedede!) or my rather low emotion nature, but you guy seriously have to get serious here (Yes, I know it's the internet, but it really helps to be serious).

 

[gantrain05]

i don't know there doesn't seem to be all that much goin for charizards metagame, its more of a defend til you see an opening/Fair approach. i dont know, he just seems to be one of the characters thats based more on prediction.

 

[Toby.]

(Facepalm) OK, this is either my tired brain from either the PSAT, the failed attempts at beating the true arena in Kirby Super Star Ultra (Darn Masked Dedede!) or my rather low emotion nature, but you guy seriously have to get serious here (Yes, I know it's the internet, but it really helps to be serious).

Internets is srs business? Okeedoke.

gantrain, perhaps you play the wrong charizards? I think almost everyone on this board will tell you that using fair to approach is inferior to his plethora of other options. He can be played well both offensively and defensively. At the moment a lot of his game revolves around spaced rock smashes, bair, dtilt and his insane grab range. These can be used to complement either play style.

You'll mostly see fair when charizard is killing off stage. It's pretty awesome out there

 

[Retro Gaming]

I retreating Fair on stage and Fair people on platforms above me. And use it off-stage. That's about the extent of that thing's use.

 

[Tenki]

Eh, I apologize if this was already addressed, but it's 24 pages, and it's also a somewhat ancient thread, so things might have changed:

So, I try to play as PT sometimes.

Maybe it's an aftereffect of playing as Sonic and being limited with kill moves, but I tend to not use my kill moves until I can gamble on it (either through bad DI, charge, or from 'overkill' %) on actually killing.

I know Charizard has a whole bunch of moves that can kill pretty well, but I'm sort of lost on what to use to damage.

I kind of liked using U-smash to kill people, but I've seen some people suggest using it to damage. B-air and F-air as well, so I'm not too sure.

I usually default to knocking/throwing my opponent off the stage, then using down-B>D-throw to kill, but I think it'd be helpful to know which moves are the most reliable damagers/finishers in application, without having to rely on Squirtle lol.

 

[Jim Morrison]

^ you use f-throw at sonic kill damages (150%)
edit: also his forward B tend to do hurt. about 30 damage if you get it in, with great knockback

 

[Steeler]

it's honestly a matter of preference tenki. you kind of have the opportunity to choose what you want to use to damage and kill. for example, both ftilt and dtilt can serve the same purposes. the deal is, do you want a quicker move with less lag and range to kill or space (dtilt) or slower move with more lag and range (ftilt).

usmash just depends on how often you use it when you have the opportunity to do so at lower percents. even if you use it once after a fthrow or something, he'll still be able to kill okay with it. it's not like we are talking about SONIC here. utilt is also surprisingly decent at ko'ing.

you should probably use bair at low percents, it's definitely zard's best aerial spacer. he doesn't really have a choice here, rock smash is a little too laggy and fair doesn't have knockback unless you are decently close anyway.

throw-wise...neither fthrow nor bthrow will kill that effectively if the opponent di's up. dthrow doesn't mind vertical di as much.

it just depends. look at what moves you've used since zard has been out and then try to find an opening for those moves that are still pretty fresh.

of course...switching zard in when the opponent is at high percent leaves EVERYTHING as an option, even rock smash, which kills very well if you space so no shards hit afterward. the only problem is that rs is such a good move with good damage output, it's hard to save it for kos.

 

[Charizard92]

^ you are a very smart person NSider.

The Remarkable thing about Charizard (which some failed to realized early on) is that he is ironically versatile. He has a pocketknife set of moves, serving as damage rackers, KO moves, or even both. Test out things with each one too.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

Tenki, i think the best kill moves for zard are:
1. Dtilt, very quick and one of the most reliable kill moves in the game
2. Usmash, i prefer saving it for kill, but it kos pretty well even not fresh
3. Gimping with fair and dair
4. Dthrow and Uthrow
5. Rock smash
6. Bair is a nice killer because of the sweetspot, but its better at racking up damage, anyway it should be fresh when you want kill because charizard doesnt like to spend too much time in the air
7. Utilt
8. Glide attack for the lulz

And for damage:
1. Flamethrower
2. Rock smash( i love rock smash)
3. Jab combo
4. Ftilt
5. back or froward throw, specially for sending people offstage to gimp them
6. Uair is nice
7. Bair
8. Grab release to jab combo :D

 

[Charizard92]

Tenki, i think the best kill moves for zard are:
1. Dtilt, very quick and one of the most reliable kill moves in the game
2. Usmash, i prefer saving it for kill, but it kos pretty well even not fresh
3. Gimping with fair and dair
4. Dthrow and Uthrow
5. Rock smash
6. Bair is a nice killer because of the sweetspot, but its better at racking up damage, anyway it should be fresh when you want kill because charizard doesnt like to spend too much time in the air
7. Utilt
8. Glide attack for the lulz

And for damage:
1. Flamethrower
2. Rock smash( i love rock smash)
3. Jab combo
4. Ftilt
5. back or froward throw, specially for sending people offstage to gimp them
6. Uair is nice
7. Bair
8. Grab release to jab combo :D

Move Ftilt to the KO section and you're fine with me. Oh, and Utilt to damage racking section. Also, move Uthrow to damage section, it doesn't KO that well.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

I wasnt sure were to put ftilt, so i did put it on the damage section because i assumes you would use it to damage and save the dtilt, which kos better, but i can see ftilt on the kill section
I wont move utilt for the damage section becaus eit only deals 6%, and it KOs pretty well, and its quick, so its reliable to kill with it
Uthrow may be in both sections, its charizards most damaging throw, but just by 1%, abd it KOs well onthe center of the stage( which Dthrow doenst) and finishes better oponents light and/or with good recoveries
BTW.. a list like this for every pokemon would be really cool to have on a PT guide

 

[infernovia]

Dthrow pretty much allows all your moves to be damage dealers except for the really heavy characters. Also, grab -> pummel -> release -> grab -> pummel -> release -> jab pretty much refreshes most of your moves. Or atleast 5 of them.

Outside of that, I tend to use usmash for the kill move, but a lot of time, it can be easily DIed out of (utilt actually kills a little later than usmash and its a good way to get vertical kills). Usmash is a good option out of dash so when I am using it to rack up damage, thats the move I use. I never use bair as a kill move because its the only aerially safe option you have. Very good option right out of switch though.

My list is more like this:

Most definitely killers:
Fsmash
Fair
Dthrow
Dair
Uthrow -> good damage racker in picto chat.

Most definitely damage rackers
Flamethrower
Fthrow
Bthrow (except when doing Fthrow/Bthrow off the edge and quickly going to fair)
Jab
Pummel

Everything else -> good on both.

 

[Charizard92]

Our lists vary, Here's mine:

KO moves:
Ftilt
Dtilt
Dthrow
Fair
Bair
Dair
Usmash
Fsmash
Rock Smash
Fly

Damage rackers:
Jab combo
Uthrow
Fthrow
Bthrow
Grab release
Utilt
Ftilt
Nair
Uair
Fair
Flamethrower
Rock Smash

Anything else doesn't matter much.

 

[infernovia]

I only made a list of moves that you would never use for damage racking/never use for killing.

 

[PltnmNgl]

With Charizard, it's hard to say what is always a the kill move or the damage move. It really depends on the matchup for him more than the other two.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

a lot of charizard's moves can be both, i think every kill move but Dthrow and maybe Fair can be used for damage racking too, and its true, charizard doesnt care too much for stale move negation, btw, i wouldnt consider Fsmash a good killer, its very hard to land it