Charizard Tactical Discussion

[Zigsta]

So... is the best way to play Charizard really just doing really defensive spacing using only rock smash, fair, and fire breath? :/

That's a pretty large part of it, I'd say. Don't forget to abuse his grab/grab release game. Be careful not to overuse fair, though, as a misspaced one will get you punished.

 

[The Nameless Wanderer]

So... is the best way to play Charizard really just doing really defensive spacing using only rock smash, Bair, shield grab, and fire breath? :/

Yes, thats right.

 

[Charizard92]

In general, Charizard's strategy is primarily based on grabs, Rock smash, flamethrower, U attacks, and Side aerials. A bit longer than Masky's list, but still incredibly simple (tilts and other moves can be added for variety).

 

[SuorGenoveffa]

Just a question, guys. I recently saw this japanese video: Akira (PT) vs Brood (Olimar)

At some point Char does a short grab release on Olimar. I was just wondering, since I had never heard of it... does it really work or is the Olimar doing something wrong?

Sorry if it was answered somewhere else .

 

[Steeler]

olimar could have just used something that was faster than 6 frames (the speed of charizard's grab). like spotdodge.

 

[SuorGenoveffa]

Hmmm I thought so, thank you Steeler :°.

 

[dre_89_]

I seem to have trouble controlling the air with Charizard's aerials, I know he's more of a ground fighter but I was just wondering what the preferred aerials were.

I always see people talk about using bair alot, but I rarely seem to get in the right position for it, so do you guys use RAR rushes alot like you would with Ivysaur.

Also, Do you use fair in aerial combat or just for edgeguarding.

 

[Zigsta]

Bair is awesome. When combined with Charizard's three jumps, it's completely possible to hit an enemy with multiple hits. It comes out fast, and if it sweetspots, it's got pretty solid knockback. If it doesn't and you read their DI right, go for another one. It's great for pressure.

You have to be careful with fair since if you don't sweetspot it, the enemy will just punish you once you hit the ground. Fair is best when edgeguarding since you can't be punished as easily when you're offstage, in most cases, of course. That said, it's still a move you should use onstage, too--just get used to how it hits. A lot of times people use fair and DI backwards so that if they miss the sweetspot, Charizard will be farther away from the enemy, making it harder to punish.

 

[T-block]

RAR b-air is a decent approach. It's also a good way to cover a retreat...dash away and short hop b-air. F-air isn't bad as long as you realize the "hitbox" at the end isn't really a hitbox. If you use it only to hit with the sweetspot, you'll see there are actually quite a few places where you could use it. I think n-air is really underestimated too... huge hitbox, autocancels, and the knockback near the bottom of the swing can lead to some interesting follow-ups. I guess I should also mention that Charizard has gross landing lag on all of his aerials, so make sure they end before you land.

 

[dre_89_]

Thanks, I just randomly started using nair when the opponent is above me and I noticed I was often connecting with the tail, do you guys do that too or is uair better.

 

[Ghetto Fabulous]

u cant short hop an up air without suffering landing lag, so if u are trying to combo or pressure i would go with neutral air

 

[Vermy]

i nair platformed opponents. if they shield it, it generally shield pressures them off said platform and can set up a jab lock. And as Ghetto said, uair has landing lag, nair does not.

 

[T-block]

Wait...you can jab lock with Charizard?

 

[MaTA]

yes you can. with charizard...doing a lot of jab attacks into quick grabs are good. no one really expects that cause its charizard and people think you'll just rock smash the whole time.

 

[T-block]

i'm talking about a full out, jab lock you across the stage jab lock?

 

[IsmaR]

It's hard, but possible I'd imagine.

 

[Zigsta]

i'm talking about a full out, jab lock you across the stage jab lock?

His jab lock is...weird. I think it's only possible with his second jab. I've done it two times in a row, but other than that, no dice. I think this came up in conversation sometime on the boards. Tcranter commented on it.

 

[T-block]

yeah i remember the discussion we had on it a while back, and no one could figure out how to keep it up consistently.

vermiis threw it out there as if he does it all the time =P

 

[Vermy]

Well it is an option =p

I find the first jab works better. Use it in the same way Link mains do.
When I get home I'll test what we can do to finish a jab lock. I'm thinking perhaps usmash, dsmash, ftilt and dtilt may be possible.

 

[T-block]

If they're forced to stand up after, sweetspot Rock Smash would be the best option for damage, no?

 

[Vermy]

O_O

R...r...r...rocksmash?!

Why the hell didn't I think of that?? Its possible that their invincibility frames would end as the rock comes out. So a nice, crunchy 45% would hurt a lot.

This is sounding sexier and sexier.

 

[Toby.]

lol vermy, I'm pretty sure I talked to you on msn about rocksmashing out of a forced stand up. It was around the same time we were discussing squirtles ledge release, remember?

 

[typh]

toby toby toby


















hi toby

 

[Miles.]

zard can also lock people with his sour spotted bair.

he doesnt walk fast enough to jab lock across a level.


(HI TOBY)


MAYBE ZARD CAN DO THE PIVOT WALK JAB LOCK!!!!! (get hype?)

 

[IsmaR]

I treat Charizard's jab like a mix between Bowser's and Link's. There are many uses for it.

@vermiis - SH B-air is much classier to end a forced stand-up.

 

[Vermy]

Toby! <3 <3 <3

^_^

I know we talked about it, but umm... I forgetted. =(
Anyone tested Jab 1>bair? I know ike can do it, can we?

I still like usmash/dsmash/rsmash out of forced standup. Granted, bair would look fancier. =3

 

[Toby.]

andrew andrew andrew andrew

miles miles miles miles

hi hi hi hi

I'm back in australia and I'm sad I won't be able to see you guys anymore

and hi vermy! I really should visit you sometime eh?

oh and I don't think zard can pivot walk jab lock, since his pivot walk is le fails.

 

[typh]

can we please change the name of this thread to TOBY FAN CLUB

 

[Vermy]

I second that.

and yes, come has visit tiems ^_^
Double PT team =D

 

[Miles.]

pivot walk jab lock

 

[Zigsta]

YOUR NAME IS TOBAYYYY

Fudge, now I need to get my Wii fixed so I can experiment with Charizard's jab lock. XD

 

[Toby.]

Yep, thats my name. I wish everyone would call me toby because my username is super fails.

typh-pro is too goods! <3

 

[Bestiarius]

Dang, Toby. You're more popular with PT's than Metaknight is with n00bs!

 

[Toby.]

It's probably something to do with the accent.

Or maybe its just because I wub everyone as well

 

[Vermy]

=(
Vermy has both of those qualities. And Vermy still goes unloved.
</3

Snake ***** Charizard with dthrow [/threadrelated]

 

[Bestiarius]

Don't worry Vermy. I still love you, like that means anything. It would mean something coming from a GOOD PT.

 

[Vermy]

ty Bestiarius. =3

Toby loves me ^_^

Toby is in S tier, don'tcha know?

Use charizard in the marth matchup[/threadrelated]

 

[Charizard92]

I know, I was around when we were talking about Marth. We got active Marth participation (one of the rare occasions at the time), and we concluded that Marth creams PT. Charizard was the least hurt.

 

[Bestiarius]

I always do best with Ivy. I use RL to pressure him into approaching and then BS or jab in close, or dtilt and bthrow to get him away from me.

 

[CoonTail]

Marth is a rough matchup for all 3 Pokes like earlier stated. Squirtle is unfortunately creamed by the grab release and thus forces you to minimally use squirtle unless you on a stage with some form of platforms to stop him(Battlefield discluded figuring every marth in my meta is a horror on that stage). Ivy is alright keeping him at bay landing surprise hits and pokes but still overall is very worried about the gimp. Zard is the shining light in this matchup because hes strong and can hit back too. My biggest problem against marth are the combos to 50-60% marths can pull. Just the F or D throw to tipper f-smash is garenteed 24%. Rocksmash equals this out with the 45% hit. When I fight a marth my biggest opening combos I look for are rocksmash up smash for the full 61%. 45% rocksmash and 16% U-smash that way with him at 61% the combos to 60% on zard are leveled. Thats my reason for started zard strong can take hits and can TO AN EXTENT equal marth's damage output. With this zard can actually compete with marth instead of getting a complete disadvantage to work against like the other two(GIMPAGE).