Chef to Dash Attack

[Wobby]

I was playing against my friend, who is really **** good so he knows his stuff, anyway, I tend to use Chef more than I should, but one thing I started doing by accident is using Chef than before the bacon hits I would dash attack and it actually worked really well, sure it is nothing great, but it worked so that is something to be said. Just wondering if anyone else has found this out or any uses for it, I find that Chef is actually a fairly good move to mind game with, use it a couple times and while they are blocking when it is in midair, run toward them and punish them.

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

A. Chef isn't practical 99% of the time, therefore anything involving chef probly won't be all too useful in tourney play
B. Refrain from using G&Ws dash attack at all cost, its way too easy to get sheild grabbed that way.

i used to do something like that back when noone knew hot to punish, but those days have come and gone. I'm sorry if I insult anyone by this, but I really don't think anyone will ever find a fool-proof way to use chef.

 

[animeblitzballa33]

Are you serious!? I whole heartedly disagree. While it is true that it can be easily punished, it has its uses. It gets punished when you use it too much and become predictable with it. It is great for mind games. When my opponent is off the side of the stage I like to throw in a couple chefs when the are recovering, it often connects and does some alright damage. Hit them a couple times with that and they change how they recover, then you can punish them. I have a cycle of like 4 options when approching characters off of the stage. Allowing your opponent thinking that they have you figured out by purposly setting yourself up in the beggining of the match is the best mind game.
Plus the chef is good for refreshing moves.

 

[Voxx]

B moves dont refresh, use Uair

 

[cutter]

Chef is definately a situational projectile, but it's far from "isn't practical 99% of the time".

@ Voxx: WTF are you talking about? B moves go through stale moves just like normal attacks do.

 

[Voxx]

DOes it? either way chef sucks and can be easiliy punished. I rather use Uair.

 

[animeblitzballa33]

DOes it? either way chef sucks and can be easiliy punished. I rather use Uair.

Thats what he means by it being situational. Uair would sometimes be the better option and others not.

 

[Ugg]

I only use G&W's dash attacking for stage spikes (and it only works like, once per person, so rarely.)
And yes, B moves refresh stales moves, I don't know why they wouldn't..

 

[Needle of Juntah]

is anyone good at GW yet? could use some tips

 

[K 2]

Chef has its uses, but most of the time, it will be punished. It's a situational projectile, but I think its worth learning how to use it.

I highly disagree with the fact that it can be used to mindgame. 90% of the people on smashboards don't even know what mindgame means...

 

[animeblitzballa33]

How can it not be used for mind games. You are able to change how your opponent recovers which plays right in your hand, how does that not count.

 

[jog]

How can it not be used for mind games. You are able to change how your opponent recovers which plays right in your hand, how does that not count.

IMO chef is a very tricky mind game. when i see GWs using chef i think "wow what a noob" its just useless except against maybe DK and bowser, and doesn't serve much of a purpose against recovery, at least i haven't had much luck with it. now back to the noob statement i made, this can be used to draw your opponent into thinking you suck and then you go **** mode and win OR you use it because you really do suck and you're going to get your butt kicked.

i think it would be a good mind game too start using chef right when you start the match to draw your opponent into thinking "wow this guys a noob"

 

[A2ZOMG]

B. Refrain from using G&Ws dash attack at all cost, its way too easy to get sheild grabbed that way.

I have to greatly disagree with this statement. G&W's Dash attack is a VERY good attack. 95% of the time, it is safe on miss, safe against attacks, and punishes dodges very effectively. The only time it isn't safe is on block, but that doesn't matter quite as much when the attack is safe on miss.

 

[K 2]

Chef usually can't touch a recovering opponent, given the trajectory of the projectile. Fair and Dair are almost always safer and better options for edgeguarding.

Jog, that's a really bad example of mindgaming. Pros might laugh at you while you attempt to mindgame them with chef. If you're using chef a lot, you probably suck anyways.

Chef might be a semi-decent projectile, but it no mindgame potential. The only projectile that has mindgame potential I can think of off the top of my head is Pit's arrows.

 

[jog]

Chef usually can't touch a recovering opponent, given the trajectory of the projectile. Fair and Dair are almost always safer and better options for edgeguarding.

Jog, that's a really bad example of mindgaming. Pros might laugh at you while you attempt to mindgame them with chef. If you're using chef a lot, you probably suck anyways.

Chef might be a semi-decent projectile, but it no mindgame potential. The only projectile that has mindgame potential I can think of off the top of my head is Pit's arrows.

i wasn't saying i use it that way. i really never even use chef, i was just thinking it could be such a backwards mind game that it could work.

haha who knows, i get these ideas while i'm typing up most of my posts

 

[_Phloat_]

Ah smashboards. Bad post + "Mindgames guise" = Profit.

I don't think anyone in this thread has said anything correct about mindgames. Cept saying chef doesn't have them.

 

[animeblitzballa33]

Wow, hey everyone, bow down to this all knowing guy Phloat. I mean, everything that he says must be absolute fact. Other peoples opinions and ideas of things fall before his word.

Here is some advice....... F**k off. Your ignorance blows my mind. Why do you insist on degrading people just to make your own existence better. Just because something doesnt work for you, that doesnt mean it just doesnt exist at all.

 

[White Out]

A True Mind Game is Mind Blowing

Wow, hey everyone, bow down to this all knowing guy Phloat. I mean, everything that he says must be absolute fact. Other peoples opinions and ideas of things fall before his word.

Here is some advice....... F**k off. Your ignorance blows my mind. Why do you insist on degrading people just to make your own existence better. Just because something doesnt work for you, that doesnt mean it just doesnt exist at all.

Cause Chef honestly dosn't have a real mind game
a mind game simply isn't tricking someone into thinking ur going to do a differnt move

A True Mind Game is Mind Blowing


Chef in no way shape or form will Blow someones Mind

 

[animeblitzballa33]

I know that its not the only aspect of mind games. But it is a small portion of it. Mind games dont have to be all just super complex things. They can be a simple as making your opponent think your think your going to strike them and do a different move. Conditioning is a huge part of the game, and it falls under mind games.

 

[rgrwilco]

Chef in no way shape or form will Blow someones Mind

this me a chuckle a bit =)

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

I have to greatly disagree with this statement. G&W's Dash attack is a VERY good attack. 95% of the time, it is safe on miss, safe against attacks, and punishes dodges very effectively. The only time it isn't safe is on block, but that doesn't matter quite as much when the attack is safe on miss.

Dash attack is one of his worst. Its doesn't even set up well given how long the post lag is.

If it isn't safe on block, it isn't a good idea to use it. If they sheild it, you're grabbed, And Thats the #1 thing NOT to have happen to you in this game. Being safe on miss (even tho miss usually means they sheild) or safe against attacks (being that G&W has some nasty prelag, even if they do clank, G&W is most likely to get hit by an opponents faster attack) being unsafe on block is the worst thing to have, because ultimately that will lead to more punishment then anything else.

 

[K 2]

I know that its not the only aspect of mind games. But it is a small portion of it. Mind games dont have to be all just super complex things. They can be a simple as making your opponent think your think your going to strike them and do a different move. Conditioning is a huge part of the game, and it falls under mind games.

Do you know what mindgames are? I'm curious to hear your definition of mindgames.

 

[animeblitzballa33]

Do you know what mindgames are? I'm curious to hear your definition of mindgames.

Predicting what your opponent is going to do and effectively countering it. They more or less turn into a way of having control of your opponent and what they will do. Conditioning falls into this catagory, and that is exactly what i said to begin with. You condition your opponent to think you are going to use the chef, because they think that they will be able to punish you, but instead you have them set up and you already have a counter for it.

Like I said it is very basic, but by definition it still falls into the mindgames catagory.

 

[White Out]

Predicting what your opponent is going to do and effectively countering it. They more or less turn into a way of having control of your opponent and what they will do. Conditioning falls into this catagory, and that is exactly what i said to begin with. You condition your opponent to think you are going to use the chef, because they think that they will be able to punish you, but instead you have them set up and you already have a counter for it.

Like I said it is very basic, but by definition it still falls into the mindgames catagory.

By your own basic defintion then yes that is a mindgame but will others see it as that is something totally differnt

Mind Game argument aside The risk of using this move and being punished for it just overwhelms the possible good outcome what ever that may be and if someone falls for that then can fall for other things that would grant an even greater reward

In the end Chef is just a bad idea

 

[animeblitzballa33]

Yeah, sitting here debating mindgames wont get anywhere, and by my definition more people would see that as wrong. And i will agree that most of the time chef is not the best option. But i do not want to call it totally useless. Prolly once a match i use the chef when my opponent is recovering from the ledge, if spaced correctly if they jump they will get caught in the food. But if they recover attacking or rolling the pan will semi-spike them back and they will get caught in the food. Using it sparingly can catch them off guard.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Dash attack is one of his worst. Its doesn't even set up well given how long the post lag is.

If it isn't safe on block, it isn't a good idea to use it. If they sheild it, you're grabbed, And Thats the #1 thing NOT to have happen to you in this game. Being safe on miss (even tho miss usually means they sheild) or safe against attacks (being that G&W has some nasty prelag, even if they do clank, G&W is most likely to get hit by an opponents faster attack) being unsafe on block is the worst thing to have, because ultimately that will lead to more punishment then anything else.

It punishes people better than most things when you read an air dodge. It's not always possible for G&W to reach the landing location of his opponent with an Up-smash or B-air.

Safe on miss, you get to shield before your opponent gets to hit you. Because it clanks with 99.9% of all ground attacks, you get to shield before they punish it with anything else. If you see someone spotdodge, you can punish it easily and safely with this attack.

There are a number of good attacks that are unsafe on block. It just depends on their applications. Snake's F-tilt is unsafe on block but it is AMAZING as a punisher for dealing damage. DK and Marth also have unsafe, but very effective F-tilts for dealing damage. Mario and Luigi's up-tilts are unsafe on block, but very good jugglers.

 

[animeblitzballa33]

And the dash attack can take MK out of his tornado.

 

[White Out]

And the dash attack can take MK out of his tornado.

If the pivot Grab Discovery works for GaW then it would be better to pivot grab

 

[animeblitzballa33]

I guess i really dont understand the whole concept of the pivot grab, i read about it but still dont fully understand it. Could someone explain.

 

[K 2]

I guess i really dont understand the whole concept of the pivot grab, i read about it but still dont fully understand it. Could someone explain.

Pivot grab is running in one direction and pressing back + grab.

Yeah, sitting here debating mindgames wont get anywhere, and by my definition more people would see that as wrong. And i will agree that most of the time chef is not the best option. But i do not want to call it totally useless. Prolly once a match i use the chef when my opponent is recovering from the ledge, if spaced correctly if they jump they will get caught in the food. But if they recover attacking or rolling the pan will semi-spike them back and they will get caught in the food. Using it sparingly can catch them off guard.

Did I ever say it was useless? I said it was situational, but with zero mindgame potential.

Predicting what your opponent is going to do and effectively countering it. They more or less turn into a way of having control of your opponent and what they will do. Conditioning falls into this catagory, and that is exactly what i said to begin with. You condition your opponent to think you are going to use the chef, because they think that they will be able to punish you, but instead you have them set up and you already have a counter for it.

Like I said it is very basic, but by definition it still falls into the mindgames catagory.

Your example of conditioning is horrible. If you're using chef enough to condition your opponent, you've either lost the match already or you're so far behind that you opponent can take any sort of punishment and still win.

 

[White Out]

I guess i really dont understand the whole concept of the pivot grab, i read about it but still dont fully understand it. Could someone explain.

Dash + Grab+ Revearse Direction = Pivot grab the pivot grab for some characters can grab metaknight out of his tornado this was a discovery i believe was made today or yesterday i don't think any one has tested it for GaW yet

But grabn Metaknight out of Tornado >Dashattack

 

[animeblitzballa33]

Pivot grab is running in one direction and pressing back + grab.



Did I ever say it was useless? I said it was situational, but with zero mindgame potential.


Your example of conditioning is horrible. If you're using chef enough to condition your opponent, you've either lost the match already or you're so far behind that you opponent can take any sort of punishment and still win.

That was not pertained to you, I think it was said earlier by someone else. Sorry if that confused you.

I dont think my example is horrible, i would say it is right on because it does define conditioning, but true that it prolly is unrealistic. I was simply saying some things that have worked for me in the past. Granted it didnt happen very often, but still enough to were i like to try to implament it into my game. Switching between that and dtilting seems to work pretty good. And i play with some pretty good players, so its not like i tested this on the 8 year old down the street lol.