Chill out. Metaknight won't ever be banned.

[MarKO X]

It is true that diddy's, adhd included don't want **** getting out the public. I did the shuttle loop downb cancel on wifi against adhd and he asked me right after the match "who told you about the shuttle loop cancel" as if he was worried. It was pretty funny.

is this any different from just cancelling the SL with a well timed glide attack on the ground so as to land without lag or is this something completely different?

If it is completely different, how do you do it kind sir?

just want to point out two things
1: there is another thread that is pro ban so no point reposting everything
2: big wall of text who wants to read all of it then write up a argument?

lol @ #2

 

[Omni]

press down+b (at the same time) or jump+b

it auto cancels at its highest peak without MK having to dive down and normal b cancel

 

[theunabletable]

I'm pretty sure he's referring to when you do a grounded shuttle loop, then immediatly press down+B it'll cancel, you'll fast fall to the ground, and auto cancel with no lag. So that you get to the ground faster.

M2K made a thread about it a whiiiiiiile ago.

EDIT: ninja'd............

 

[TechnoDreamer]

Most MK players suck **** against Diddy. It's not "omg Diddy counters MK" or "omfg Diddy players outplay MK players so hard with all of these opportunities!!!"

simply put, MK players suck against Diddy (FOR NOW).

I showed half of those MK players you listed things in the Diddy match-up that they had never seen before, and did not know how to replicate.

They had NO IDEA that Diddy could do half of the **** that he's capable of (or ANY character, for that matter- Diddy has very few Diddy only ATs).



Now tell me- if you went into a battle against someone's character not knowing that they could do half of the **** that they were capable of (let's use D3 and his chaingrab as an analogy) how well do you think you would do against them?



Diddy does NOT go even with an MK who knows the match-up (god forbid a Peach or a Luigi actually learn the match-up) ESPECIALLY with all of the counterpicks available.

ADHD won Pound because Diddy players actively try to keep others from learning the match-up, not because Diddy Kong is the hands down greatest character in Brawl.

Diddy players actively try to keep others from learning the matchup :/ ?

Why wouldn't Diddy players want the metagame to advance as far as possible so that Brawl could reach it's pinnacle level of technical achievement? Don't Diddy players want to be challenged and pushed as far as they can go by opponents who are as strong as possible?

I guess not, if the Diddy player in question serves to make a lot of money from tournaments (a reasonable goal), but it seems as if from a community perspective, Diddy players should not actively try to keep the matchup a secret.

I was a BW player first, before Brawl (to which I am relatively new), and peope are always trying to push that game as far as it can go. Of course, the analogy is weak, because BW changes the maps that are used a couple of times a season, but the fundamentals never change. In fact, if new maps are introduced that are highly irregular, there are usually a lot of complaints.

And I'm not insinuating that Diddy players are trying to "keep the game from going as far as it can" for their own benefit, just that in this instance, what they're ostensibly doing seems odd :/

 

[TL?]

I definately agree that MK shouldn't and won't be banned. To me all that needs to be said is that major tournaments are won with other characters besides MK. If characters besides MK are viable to beat the best MKs in the country then MK doesn't need to be banned.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

NAGACE

when i posted my argument in the pro-ban thread no one attempted to argue it

uhh..

and speaking of wall of text remember that thing pro-ban had a few months ago? i think it was their argument for the pro-ban side?

yea... that better suits the definition of a wall of text

so no jones

um first off i stand by my point that there are plenty of arguments in other threads but since i have not read your wall maybe no one responded to your points yet (i might read wall tomorrow)

and MarKO got the point that #2 was a joke

 

[Cross.]

I agree with omnis post 100%, especially the part about MK being a barrier that players have to overcome.

A wise SF player once said there are 2 reasons for plateaus:
1. a player physically cannot execute to their characters full potential. This really isnt an issue in brawl, but lets say for example a falco player who cannot execute shdl.

2. a player cannot or will not learn more about the game.
This is the true issue. Whenever there are hurdles about a certain match up, the forums are bombarded with excuses which doesn't help their situation at all. This is something that plagues smashboards, mk being the most prominent. Players would rather complain about how unfair something is rather than do what they need to do, dig deeper and see WHY they are losing and what they can do differently. Adhd and ally are proof that it can be done.

 

[solecalibur]

I agree with omnis post 100%, especially the part about MK being a barrier that players have to overcome.

So i guess ADHD only overcame MK then? ADHD and Ally both lost a game (not set) to m2k when he was planking

 

[hotgarbage]

....this whole deal is quickly becoming very childish.

 

[Omni]

....this whole deal is quickly becoming very childish.

i agree.

but since a mod didnt close his thread id rather not allow anti-ban become more affected by OS's antics

 

[solecalibur]

i agree.

but since a mod didnt close his thread id rather not allow anti-ban become more affected by OS's antics

I largely disagree if you havnt noticed these topics are getting closed because they go off topic

There are those that feel the same way about banning MK thinking this is childish as well because it should have been done early on or the excuses we have heard are getting ridiculous

 

[salaboB]

However, the fact is that a non-MK user has recently started to dominate MK in tournament. Not only has this Diddy dominated MK, but he has proven that Diddy can handle the rest of the cast just as well. The reason the results show a small spike with Diddy is because one player is using Diddy's potential at a much higher level calibur.

You cannot ignore the fact that a Diddy took 1st place in one of the biggest national brawl tournaments up to date.

The argument, "But it's one person," or "ADHD is special" is bologna. What ADHD did was show to the smash scene that Diddy has the potential and capabilities of wreaking absolute havoc in the game including against Metaknight himself.

Ally's Snake, taking 3rd at the same tournament, is the same example with ADHD. These players aren't special. We all picked up the disc and started from the same point; these two players simply have put the most effort in to opening and exploring a character that is more complex and harder to use than MK.

And yet...

If only one person in the entire community can do it, and their advantage is only demonstrated once before the best MK learns what they do and then beats them next time...

Right.

M2K lost to Snake and there were cries of, "See Snake can beat MK now he'll be taken down in tournies!" but this time was Diddy, not Snake. Where did Snake go?

MK adapted.

Wait until Diddy actually repeats this, more than once, before trumpeting how it demonstrates anything other than a surprise Diddy that the best MK players didn't know how to handle this time around. That's all it shows at this point in time, anything else is drawing inferences from an outlier and that's not any better statistically than what OS did when he didn't take all tournaments into account.

 

[B!squick]

Okay, why are all of these MK related threads being posted in Tactical? Shouldn't they go in General or something?

 

[salaboB]

Okay, why are all of these MK related threads being posted in Tactical? Shouldn't they go in General or something?

Tradition, mostly.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

First off, it's rather funny how this topic always comes up after a major, major tournament.

Read OP of both threads. This seems to be a main arguement of dominance of the scene, overcentralization, etc. A valide arguement given what OS provided, however, there is no proof that MK being removed will really change anything. It's been said before for years "temp ban". Seriously, get more TOs of large tournaments to host MK banned ones and see what the results become. That would ultimately be the best way to end this debate of banning once and for all.

 

[salaboB]

Read OP of both threads. This seems to be a main arguement of dominance of the scene, overcentralization, etc. A valide arguement given what OS provided, however, there is no proof that MK being removed will really change anything. It's been said before for years "temp ban". Seriously, get more TOs of large tournaments to host MK banned ones and see what the results become. That would ultimately be the best way to end this debate of banning once and for all.

Temp ban for long enough that the novelty would be gone, the first few no-MK tournies I'd expect increased attendance from people showing up just to see what it would be like.

 

[-Mars-]

I'm not pro-ban or whatever for any reason, but Omni your original post referenced other fighters such as Street Fighter and other franchises as examples of games with character dominance.

While it is common sense that the best character will be winning a large majority of the time....comparing Smash to a game like SF is fundamentally flawed. There are too many factors in this game when considering characters that don't come up in other fighters such as recovery, offstage play, and planking.

The fact that MK wins so much is not what bothers people, the WAY in which he wins is what bothers people.

Traditional fighters are games in which even if your character is overrmatched, the opposing character is still forced to finish you off until the damage meter is gone.....in this game that simply isn't the case which is why comparing the two games is imo silly.

Granted, the fact that this game is played competitively is probably a major issue to begin with, but there are STRONG arguments for the removal of MK eliminating the majority of these issues.

Again, i'm not pro-ban by any stretch of the imagination. I actually would rather fight the plethora of MK's then see an explosion of icies, pikachus, and olimars to **** my character.....but i thought this was poorly done.

To respond to OS' ridiculously bias post, you responded with a similar post. This did nothing but show people two talented players puffing out there chests.

My 2 cents.