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Choosing a Secondary?

mesikoko

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 5, 2014
Messages
70
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Houston, Mobius
NNID
vexcain
3DS FC
1075-1191-5811
Hi, I dont know if this has been discussed before but...

I've spent almost aaaaall my time with pm getting good with Sonic. Now that I am going to tourneys i am learning more about Matchups and Sonics weaknesses.
So I ask the Sonic boards today, who can back up Sonic?
I want to learn a new character to back up Sonic in tourneys when I am countepicked.
Thanks!
 

mtmaster

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 31, 2012
Messages
229
NNID
mtmaster_2k7
3DS FC
0645-7185-4095
Hi, I dont know if this has been discussed before but...

I've spent almost aaaaall my time with pm getting good with Sonic. Now that I am going to tourneys i am learning more about Matchups and Sonics weaknesses.
So I ask the Sonic boards today, who can back up Sonic?
I want to learn a new character to back up Sonic in tourneys when I am countepicked.
Thanks!
Funny I asked the same thing like a week ago. The responses that I got essentially boiled down to secondaries are nice but not necessary and to become as good with Sonic as I possibly can be. I honestly have stuck to that and have actually started learning some new things about Sonic that I didn't know about or knew how to do, and I had thought I knew everything he had to offer. So my advice to you like some other folks have told me is just keep working Sonic, sure there will be some match-ups that may seem unfavorable, but you may end up not maximizing your potential if you start focusing on another character.

Now if you do really want a secondary I'd suggest Mario just because he's that character anyone can learn, and is acutally amazing once you get really good with him. In my mind he's essentially a slower Sonic (that isn't actually true, but that is how I see him).
 

SwiftOfDaSouth

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 29, 2014
Messages
238
Location
The South (Fairhope, Alabama)
Funny I asked the same thing like a week ago. The responses that I got essentially boiled down to secondaries are nice but not necessary and to become as good with Sonic as I possibly can be. I honestly have stuck to that and have actually started learning some new things about Sonic that I didn't know about or knew how to do, and I had thought I knew everything he had to offer. So my advice to you like some other folks have told me is just keep working Sonic, sure there will be some match-ups that may seem unfavorable, but you may end up not maximizing your potential if you start focusing on another character.

Now if you do really want a secondary I'd suggest Mario just because he's that character anyone can learn, and is acutally amazing once you get really good with him. In my mind he's essentially a slower Sonic (that isn't actually true, but that is how I see him).
I second this.
 

Simmonick

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
26
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
Yes, while it might be tempting to search for a secondary when you start losing matches. What it really comes down to is adapting to the match ups you're not comfortable with. So stay strong with sonic and continue to go fast man!

P.S. Sonic is in fact my secondary, while my main is Link. That being said I still try to figure out the match ups to some degree before I write it off as unwinnable.
 

mbaby

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Messages
13
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Bloomfield,Connecticut
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Altyjr2
hm i suggest marth/roy, ivysaur, or kirby. one thing i saw was that diddy and mewrwo are great against sonic so some good projectiles, so having kirby would help against mewtwo, ivysaur could but isnt likely, marth/roy is great for spacing
 

JFyst

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
102
3DS FC
1822-1491-9293
I was just thinking of writing this myself, I personally don't agree with what people here are saying, i've asked a lot of people above me, and i've been told that being a character loyalist is a terrible idea, while it is true you should focus your main another character to back you up or to throw out when your opponent isn't ready for it is a good way to play, sometimes people can download your character. Most (not all) high level players have some type of secondary that they can use if counter picked.
 

leekslap

Smash Ace
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Jun 17, 2014
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Meta knight is cool
This is why I follow you
I was just thinking of writing this myself, I personally don't agree with what people here are saying, i've asked a lot of people above me, and i've been told that being a character loyalist is a terrible idea, while it is true you should focus your main another character to back you up or to throw out when your opponent isn't ready for it is a good way to play, sometimes people can download your character. Most (not all) high level players have some type of secondary that they can use if counter picked.
I second this.
There's this thing you can do to show you approve a post or agree. It's called "likes". It's a confusing concept, I know, but you can perform it like this:

1. Find blue text that says "Like" on the lower right corner
2. Click on it
3. *mind blown*

Also top level players don't start out being good with 20 characters ( unless you are Oracle goddamn I have no clue how he does it ), they main one character and master them then move to the next. M2K started with Fox, then Marth, and then Sheik while messing around with Mewtwo the whole time. Mango started with Jigglypuff, then spacies, then Falcon, and lastly Mario. Believe it or not, Mango is one of, if not the, best Melee Mario ever. Unless skill transfers, like with spacies, it's hard to be really good with more than two characters.
 

gmBottles

Fun Haver
Joined
Jul 20, 2014
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6,002
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komfyking
There's this thing you can do to show you approve a post or agree. It's called "likes". It's a confusing concept, I know, but you can perform it like this:

1. Find blue text that says "Like" on the lower right corner
2. Click on it
3. *mind blown*
That wasn't needed. No need to be rude to people on the internet.
 

JFyst

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
102
3DS FC
1822-1491-9293
This is why I follow you

Also top level players don't start out being good with 20 characters ( unless you are Oracle goddamn I have no clue how he does it ), they main one character and master them then move to the next. M2K started with Fox, then Marth, and then Sheik while messing around with Mewtwo the whole time. Mango started with Jigglypuff, then spacies, then Falcon, and lastly Mario. Believe it or not, Mango is one of, if not the, best Melee Mario ever. Unless skill transfers, like with spacies, it's hard to be really good with more than two characters.
I've never said to learn the entire cast, (Though being aware of what they do is important) But learning say Ganon to take care of spacies, or kirby to slow down the pace of the game. Having options on the select screen is a good thing just don't go over board with it either.

Not one person (Myself included) has even given a suggestion as to what is a good second for sonic, hoping wizzrobe or solharath-senpai's inform us.
 

Hinichii.ez.™

insincere personality
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hinichii
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I've never said to learn the entire cast, (Though being aware of what they do is important) But learning say Ganon to take care of spacies, or kirby to slow down the pace of the game. Having options on the select screen is a good thing just don't go over board with it either.

Not one person (Myself included) has even given a suggestion as to what is a good second for sonic, hoping wizzrobe or solharath-senpai's inform us.
aye man

This is how you pick a solid secondary. You don't need wizzrobe to tell nuttin.

- Look at your characters weaknesses. What beats them, whats hard to deal with, can you kill etc...
- Think about stages you like and hate.
- Figure out what are the good MU and the bad ones for your character.
-Figure out what are your personal good MU and bad ones.

Now that you know the process, you can chose a secondary!

Look at the cast and figure out, who has good match ups where your main has tricky/hard/tough/impossible MU. With this in mind, you can pick a secondary. Not everyone will pick the same one because, not all the characters that cover sonic's weaknesses play out the same. Also, everyone will not have the same personal weaknesses/strengths. You'll have to do a little bit of soul searching.

Btw
It's best if you chose two characters that cover each other like PB&J
 

Solharath

[ZTD] CEO
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
1,603
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North Muskegon, Michigan
That's a best case scenario, sure, but honestly while it's great on paper, it's actually not applicable to real life. As MST3K always said, 'There is no accounting for taste.' Choosing a secondary needs to develop from a space where you enjoy playing that character, and then expanding that to working on what makes that character good in a competitive sense. Sonic is fast, and covers people who don't understand the character very well, but he's got huge deficits in his game. To be honest, choosing a secondary that covers all your bad matchups may simply not exist, or they have a playstyle that doesn't gel with you. It's like if I started playing DK to cover my issues with Fox - he's got a chaingrab, some fantastic range, and fast, reliable aerials to give me an edge in the air. However, I don't like playing DK, and he has very few skills that translate from Sonic.

Sonic is a weird character. The skillset it takes to use Sonic does not give you many transferable options when playing other characters, like Falco to Fox, or Sheik to Squirtle(seriously, give those two a look, Squirtle is aggro Sheik). I've been all around this character select numerous times and found that, in the end, Sonic is just crazy unique.

That isn't to say there aren't parallels. If you want to improve your knowledge of the game in general while finding different ways to better your Sonic along with training some secret weapons, I have a couple suggestions for y'all.

Jigglypuff
First and foremost, learn yourself some Jigglypuff. She has a very similar juggle game to Sonic, and if you treat rest like a sweetspot Nair, you might find yourself going for insane combos and nailing that elusive move a lot more than before. But mostly, you're Bair training here. Sonic might not be able to Bair insanely like Jiggs, but they have the exact same use for it - learn it, space it, kill with it. If you're looking for the horizontal velocity that Jiggs can get with Sonic, try a Moonwalk shorthop bair. Having a Jiggles on hand is a great momentum shift as well, able to freely deal with your opponent's mindset in mid-set. Jiggles used to have a lot of trouble, but in this update she might shine quite a bit more than before.

Game and Watch
Like Sonic's UpB? Well you shouldn't, but here's a much better version of the move that can reliably sweetspot, has a hitbox, and you can act out of it! His ground game has range comparable to Sonic, so you need not mess with your spacing knowledge too much when transitioning from one to the other. In fact, when it comes to range, everything is comparable to Sonic, even if he is much slower on the ground with much different applications to the moves. You can also feel much more free to take an opponent to stages with closer quarters but larger boundaries, as you'll never be wanting for kill power.

Sheik
There's nothing really here to get you better with Sonic, but having a Sheik teaches you patience, which helps you get better in general. Sheik is the character that has low impact tech skill, and a very basic combo game. Patience, spacing, and timing your moves are the most important aspects to a Sheik, like every move is timed almost directly to Sonic's Nair. She also has an astronomically better tech roll situation, so you can at least rely on escaping your opponent's grasp sometimes, as opposed to your sad little hedgehog's pitifully bad tech options. In Melee, it's said that if you want to learn the game's fundamentals best, play Sheik, and that hasn't changed.

Something to keep in mind.
 

leekslap

Smash Ace
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Jun 17, 2014
Messages
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That wasn't needed. No need to be rude to people on the internet.
Except I wasn't being rude. I was being sarcastic.
I've never said to learn the entire cast, (Though being aware of what they do is important) But learning say Ganon to take care of spacies, or kirby to slow down the pace of the game. Having options on the select screen is a good thing just don't go over board with it either.

Not one person (Myself included) has even given a suggestion as to what is a good second for sonic, hoping wizzrobe or solharath-senpai's inform us.
Ganon is TERRIBAD against spacies though. It's like his worst matchup. He can't do anything about lasers and he gets combo'd way too easy.
Hero, got my back as always. You know, It's funny...I seemed to be able to like your post just fine without anyone telling me how to do it! Weird, huh?
This makes NO sense. I told you to like posts instead of spam. Effect: you like post and for some reason think I'll explain again. What the fudge man? Also stop it with the spam!
 

N810

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
60
Location
Arizona
(During 3.02) I actually main Mario before Sonic. When I would lose with Mario I would switch to Sonic for an all new experience and it would always work in my favor. That's when I realized I destined to play Sonic. Other than that my secondary's are Mario, Flaco, and Roy. I think it's good to practice with secondary's during tourney play. I asked advice from Axe from AZ ad this is what he told me and it's worked well for me.

"I started playing other characters actually, and building really good secondaries keeps things fresh and really makes you think about things differently. When I went back to Pikachu especially when going to a tournament after a while, I realized things I never thought of before and it really helped me out. Try your best to think outside the box, and don't be afraid to try something new even if it seems like a stupid idea."
 
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