Common Secondaries and their usefulness.

[Stewie1288]

So I main Marth and consider Falco and C. Falcon secondaries.

Lately my Falco tech has been improving and I feel like this is making my Marth tech better and more consistent. Mostly because a lot of the shine combos for Falco and combos for CF require faster and more dexterous finger movement.

Is Falco/CF a common secondary for Marth players? Also, do you think there are any inherent benefits to your Marth for playing a certain character as a secondary over another?

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

i know what you are talking about i main the ice climbers and SHFFLing is now way to easy to do with my pichu and now i know what pichu , ice climbers, gannon, bowser,J-puff, and falco can do t me now that i can play as them but i really have problems full hopping with falco because of the ics so it can work against you, but that's not likely and you should have at least one low tier main to mix it up f you are sucking and to make it funner

 

[Oracle]

Just secondary counters to whoever gives you trouble.

 

[Stewie1288]

Well I wasn't exactly asking who to secondary, I was just wondering if anyone had a similar experience as mine. That is, having practicing your secondary cause your main to become better. And if so, do you think there is any specific secondaries that lend the development of their skillset to help further the development your skillset for your main?

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

that must be a weird place 1 w1nged @ngel and can put a hat out of a bunny?

but really if helps to beast as everyone. you many fox for speed and teching, ice climbers for hardest SH and just hardest in about everyone, marth to stand about 4 feet away and kill someone that has small arms , pichu to know how to **** and get inside to do damage ,bowser to know what to do when you are limited in speed ,zelda for defense

you may look at it that way to see what you can learn and just play as random if you want tyo play as someone else

 

[IrArby]

Personally, Falcon makes my Falco better especially my movement using WDing. They have a pretty similar jump speed I think (don't quote me though). Plus, Falcon has to be more frugal and dare I say, elusive with his approaches so I think that carries over well to any spam happy Falco.

For Marth though . . . IDK Ganon maybe since spacing is still a big issue but you're working with a slower character. I feel like maining Fox or Falcon will help just about any character but Falcon more so for Marth in a tech chasey reactionary quick thinking type way. Sorry if all of that sounds . . . stupid.

 

[Binx]

In my experience most Marth mains secondary Fox

 

[elvenarrow3000]

If you're playing characters to improve your Marth, I would really just mess around with a lot of characters. Make sure you try new things with them (as sometimes if you play a character for too long, you get locked into one style of play and stop innovating) and see how you can apply them with Marth.

Personally, I drew tech chasing from Falcon, dash dancing from Young Link, gimps from Sheik... just from a lot of different characters.

I would pick up a good Fox or Falco though, to counterpick against Sheiks. Prolly Fox, because that gives you a good option on non-neutrals too.

 

[Stev]

Fox will improve your overall technical ability. shl going from fox to falco are cake, as is most shffling. Wavedashing becomes easier w/ marth too. its easier to go from a "quick" wavedash to a "slow" wavedash than the opposite.

 

[Stewie1288]

In my experience most Marth mains secondary Fox

I think I should try to pick Fox up then, even if it's just for fun. I was telling a friend of mine yesterday how Fox is probably one of my worst characters personally but one of the best in the game. My fox is awful mainly because my brain (and fingers) doesn't move as fast as he does. =P

Ganon is also an interesting choice, since he's ALL spacing, but no speed. So it might allow you to focus more on the spacing side of things with your Marth. Keep it coming.

 

[Mogwai]

Use Falco to cover the Sheik and CF matchups since they're probably Marth's worst matchups.

 

[Miggz]

In my experience most Marth mains secondary Fox

This is so true. I don't know why its the case but it is what it is I suppose.

 

[2.72]

(1) Fox can give your fingers a workout. I've heard a fair number of people say that they got faster by learning to play him.

(2) Fox counters Sheik/CF, against whom Marth has trouble. Well, as much trouble as Marth has vs anyone. Also, Fox does well on some stages that are typically bad for Marth, ie all non-neutrals. So from a tactical standpoint, he makes a lot of sense as a secondary.

 

[Niko45]

In general everyone should secondary fox if they are not maining them.

 

[Miggz]

(1) Fox can give your fingers a workout. I've heard a fair number of people say that they got faster by learning to play him.

(2) Fox counters Sheik/CF, against whom Marth has trouble. Well, as much trouble as Marth has vs anyone. Also, Fox does well on some stages that are typically bad for Marth, ie all non-neutrals. So from a tactical standpoint, he makes a lot of sense as a secondary.

Hm, odd...I thought Fox gets ***** by Shieks. Or it could be me. I do agree with the counter to CF though.

 

[Stewie1288]

(1) Fox can give your fingers a workout. I've heard a fair number of people say that they got faster by learning to play him.

I screwed around with fox today trying to wavedash/waveshine/even SHFFL more consistently, and i definitely felt like my brain was ahead of what my Marth was doing after that. So maybe some people use him as a training tool instead of a secondary.

(2) Fox counters Sheik/CF, against whom Marth has trouble. Well, as much trouble as Marth has vs anyone. Also, Fox does well on some stages that are typically bad for Marth, ie all non-neutrals. So from a tactical standpoint, he makes a lot of sense as a secondary.

Yeah it does make sense. Though, is there any merit of having fox over falco (aside from the tier list discrepancy?)

 

[Binx]

Fox destroys Sheik at mid levels of play, at very low its reversed and at very high levels of play its even. The thing is, if you play Fox like Marth, with an emphasis on spacing, and only do really fast things while you are initiating or continuing combos, he is really good. I think its just a play style thing.

IMO almost every character should be played like Marth.

 

[Miggz]

Fox destroys Sheik at mid levels of play, at very low its reversed and at very high levels of play its even. The thing is, if you play Fox like Marth, with an emphasis on spacing, and only do really fast things while you are initiating or continuing combos, he is really good. I think its just a play style thing.

IMO almost every character should be played like Marth.

Hm I see. That is an interesting an idea actually. As a Marth player it shouldn't be too hard to apply some of his tricks to Fox. I'm going to keep this idea in mind. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Fox is better on non-neutrals than Falco.

 

[Mogwai]

^That's actually a grood point^

 

[Binx]

Fox is better on non neutrals than anyone lol

 

[Stewie1288]

I tried working on my tech skill with fox yesterday, and it totally boned my timing with Marth and Falco. Is this just a hill I have to climb? (I'm subconsciously likening it to when I first learned tech skill and sucked awfully at it for a while.)

 

[l0telephone0l]

Hmm... I use puff as my secondary. Then again, I play very campy with both Marth and Puff. Spacing for both characters are very important so this style transfers well to both characters.

I also use falco and fox as needed (i.e. sheik), but playing switching back and forth between falco and everybody else really messes up my timing. I don't know why, but his jump is weird.

 

[Miggz]

A long time ago Roy was my secondary (now its Fox) and I felt as though he messed with my timing for Marth. Of course as many months went by you eventually adjust.

 

[soap]

go fox young man

 

[goateeguy]

i main marth, secondaries are falco and c. falcon. weird...

i havn't played competitively enough to have noted the tendency to second fox. i'd like to learn fox, cuz i love shinespiking people, but that's all i can effectively do without spraining my fingers. falco covers space animal counterpicks, and i guess he's who i would go to if i ran into a good sheik player. since that effectively covers most of the counterpicks i need to consider for marth, i guess falcon is just kinda there for when i feel like kneeing people.

once again, this is almost theoretical given my lack of experience competitively, but it seems to parallel what you're saying.

 

[Wschl]

Well, im Marth Main as well. ALso, my 2. are Cfalcon/ganon but also fox/falco. Marth has some problems agains shiek, like it was alrdy told here, so i try fox sometimes. Anyway, my fox is a lot worse than my marth Falcon and Ganon are just fun to play =)

 

[Hpnotiq]

i used to main mewtwo, then i stared usin fox, my fingers dexterity improved a lot, now i main marth and mewtwo, and my 2. are fox, Dk and mario

 

[KAOSTAR]

Ha ha I mained m2 for almost a year. I still main him but 3 months ago I picked up marth and then falco about 2 weeks ago.

Falco has improved my dexterity alot which improves my marth and m2 alot lol. Im trying to pickup falcon as well tho.

M2 Marth Falco Pikachu Falcon and these happen to be the only characters I look at and see any fun

 

[Havokbringer]

I main Marth but I secondary Fox for Shieks but I haven't tried it on C.Falcons since I don't really have trouble with them.

Also I thinks its been said by Elvenarrow3000 already but I want to say it again, you should just play most chars at some point atleast all the Top, high and mid tiers just to give you an idea of what the chars options are and what to do against the char when you play them with your marth.

 

[Miggz]

Oh I'm starting to love the Fox V.S. Falcon match. Ever since I copied what I saw PC do to M2K's Falcon on the "get gimped" vid on youtube, I've been doing pretty well against Falcon with Fox. Give it a shot. You just might like it. =P

 

[Havokbringer]

When I play Falcons with my Fox I spam Nair to Jabs on their shields (cus I saw Forward do that to Silent Spectres Falcon) but since I saw that a while ago and I'm much more technical now I spam Nair to shines.

I played SS too a few rounds and my Fox did well against him.

Too bad he had practice from Lunin getting drilled shined cus he kept DIing out of it.

 

[Stewie1288]

Haven't been here in a while, just wanted to post a little update.

I've been playing friendlies with my fox lately, and he is definitely improving my finger speed, and dexterity simply because fox is a demanding character (in the sense that all of his movements/combos are very fast and precise). It has definitely helped out my other characters. I still wouldn't go to him as a secondary, but I'm improving.

 

[Cosmo!]

realistically marth/fox might just be the best combination in the game as they almost perfectly cover all matchups, neutrals, and cps

that said I have a thing for marth/falco, which i feel gives me a slight edge on fox players for the cost of having more trouble with sheik.

 

[Miggz]

realistically marth/fox might just be the best combination in the game as they almost perfectly cover all matchups, neutrals, and cps

that said I have a thing for marth/falco, which i feel gives me a slight edge on fox players for the cost of having more trouble with sheik.

Interesting. For a split second I thought Falco would have a slightly easier time vs Sheik then Fox.

But I see what you mean now though, after thinking it through.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Yea I pretty mucch like falco for shiek and sometimes for fox. m2 for jiggs cuz right now im not good witht he marth matchup. falcon for an aggressive ganon like noobkings if u kno who that is. from canada b.c.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

You counterpick Jiggs with Mewtwo? Whaaa...?

 

[Miggz]

Pokemon battle? =P

 

[ICEDTEA1325]

So I main Marth and consider Falco and C. Falcon secondaries.

these are my characters that i play seriously lol glad to know i am not the only one.

 

[KAOSTAR]

You counterpick Jiggs with Mewtwo? Whaaa...?

Im not great with the marth matchup at the moment. Its cuz I dont play a traditional marth. its different and more focused on grabs gimps and dairs. Hardest matchups for me is falcos and prob shieks only because they can restrict my movement pretty well or at least limit what I can do.

mewtwo has an advantage over jiggs in a way that his nair should be able to catch jiggs aerials and also good recovery so u dont get wop. baby shadowballs to up throw kills at around 90 depending on di so its a good matchup to just use the upthrow and also not get gimped.