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Community Growth Discussion

LatexRhombus

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
271
Location
Penn State
Clearly, one the greatest, yet seldom addressed issues in the melee community is the lack of ability to attract new players, which comes as no surprise considering there is no suitable online play available (and likely never will be), tournament entrance fees coupled by venue fees and travel expenses and time can get quite expensive, especially to players who are not expecting to receive a portion of the pot, it can become both very frustrating and discouraging to consistently lose, and, most of all, it can be difficult to get involved with the community in the first place, which tends to be broken up into a number of cliques, largely based on region.

Over the years, I have seen a number of small-time local players come and go, some taking the time to actually become fairly decent at the game, but still deciding never to attend a tournament. The only players who could legitimately be classifed as "melee players" were the players who got involved with the community on some level.

The melee community at present is more of a brotherhood, with players who know they have no chance whatsoever to take home part of the pot spending entire weekends traveling and large amounts of money to enter tournaments just to play a game they love and hang out with people who have grown to become their friends.

This deep level of commitment stems not only from their initial enjoyment of the game and their drive to improve as a player, but from their feeling of belonging and value within the community. That being said, I will propose a few potential suggestions for ways to increase new membership, although I will admit it may be too late for any change to really attract new players as the game is many years old. I am not implying any of the below are "correct," and am merely speculating, however, I have very logical and well-thought out reasoning behind each, so I would hope any dissenting views would share the same depth of thought.

1) Move the Back Room to the "Front Room" - The concept of the Melee Back Room, that is, the most knowledgeable, experienced, and, now, enthusiastic players discusses the future of the game and the community amongst each other without input from the rest, is essentially a very important part of the way the community works and I would argue has done a lot to move the community forward. However, the vast majority of the community are not the most knowledgeable, experienced, or enthusiastic players. It can be difficult for individuals to get involved or feel that they belong to a group wherein they cannot even see what is being discussed. I do support the notion that not everyone should be permitted to comment on "backroom" discussion, as it would make it as ineffectual as the discussions we normally have in the "front room," but I think it would be beneficial to the community, especially in attracting new players to allow people to see what is being said. Following the "Pound fiasco," I think it became pretty clear that more transparency was needed in tournament organizing, would more transparency in the Back Room really be detrimental to the community? Doubtful, especially if only Back Room members were permitted to post. If anything, it would lead to them better representing the whole community and prompting parallel discussions in the forum, which just serve as more opportunities for newer players to get involved.

2) More Opportunities for "Amateurism" - To the newcomer, or the inexperienced player, it isn't unusual for the community to seem like it is ruled by the few dominant players (especially based on the structure of the Back Room as mentioned above), which can be pretty intimidating to newer players. Amateur brackers are one way that has emerged to give less skilled players more of a chance to do well in tournaments and meet higher level players who can help them improve rather quickly. Aside from this, I think some consideration should be given to amateur entry fees, or cheaper entry fees to totally new players or players who have only attended one tournament who have absolutely no chance to take home part of the pot that would not have entered the tournament otherwise. For example, imagine a small local tournament with all the same faces, in this case, 7 players who each paid a $5 venue fee and a $15 entrance fee for singles. (I know this is a crappy example, but just hear me out) Now imagine there are some inexperienced players who know the local players but do not want to throw away $20. Is it too farfetched to think that if you offered them a $5 venue fee and a $5 entrance fee (halfing the total entrance, again just for newcomers) that this may get their foot-in-the-door and allow them to become involved with and a part of this community? Not to mention since they will not win, it just adds $5 extra to the pot and helps cover part of the venue.

3) Cheaper Venues - Although the venues used for the national tournaments are quite immaculate and the players who wish to attend them prefer that, newer players who simply just need to get involved with small tournaments would more often prefer cheaper venues. Now don't get me wrong, I think the venue is an important part of bigger tournaments, but I've seen some venues with a bit too much space for the amount of people participating, thus suggesting everyone had to pay more than they would have needed to otherwise. If the tournament is small and you want to attract new players, it may not hurt to offer a cheaper option.

4) Advertise - I've seen threads that suggest putting up posters and such, and I'm sure that wouldn't hurt, but likely much more effective than posters would be to use social media, such as Facebook and Myspace. Advertising via Facebook events, for instance, is a great way to see if there is anyone in your area has any interest in playing. Note - I am in no way suggesting paying for advertising on Facebook; there are a number of free ways to accomplish this goal.

5) Get People to Play - Perhaps, the most obvious, but the last that I will post on here, just simply get people to play and look for people who appreciate or are interested in the deeper aspects of the game. You do not have to call for a smash fest or meet up with a new player solely for the purpose of playing melee all day or night, just casually ask people in normal situations if they would like to play a game or two with you at the present time or a later time. Before people can even begin to try and get involved with the smash community, they need to play the game smash.

Alright, I wrote a little more than I had planned and I have to head out to class soon, so let me know what you think. Again, dissenting opinions and/or new ideas are, of course, welcomed, just please try and be respectful, because I think if we want this game to continue, this is a very important issue that we all need to be involved with.
 

Dragoon Fighter

Smash Lord
Joined
May 23, 2010
Messages
1,915
@Your statement about online play.
Well technology does get better with thyme, I see no reason as to why we can have good online play 5-6 years into the future. (This implies Microsoft stops making crap and/or we all use an other operating system in the future that has a fully functional emulator that runs gamecube games.)
 

LatexRhombus

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
271
Location
Penn State
lol @ waiting patiently for "5-6 years"

-assuming you are right, do you really think that if we do nothing now and wait for 5-6 years that an online component would really bring new people into the community? i find it very hard to believe
 

4 Aces

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
Messages
892
I've had a number of people who were interested in competitive Melee. Problem is that hardly any of them are keen/interested in practicing and learning at least the basics. I can't seem to get them to commit even a little time into it.

Nice post btw. I'd like to comment more on it, but I have some work to finish atm.
 

boredsmash

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 8, 2011
Messages
23
I've had a number of people who were interested in competitive Melee. Problem is that hardly any of them are keen/interested in practicing and learning at least the basics. I can't seem to get them to commit even a little time into it.

Nice post btw. I'd like to comment more on it, but I have some work to finish atm.
Kinglit has 5 aces!
 

Mooo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 31, 2010
Messages
177
Location
Los Gatos, CA
I am a new player, and this weekend actually was the first time that i went out off my house to smash in a local near where i live. I was late due to traffic though and ended up just playing friendlies and watching others smash, but the people were really nice and despite losing nearly every single match i played, i still had fun and i'll definately look for people to play with and attend smashfests to get better, because i really love the game even though i only play 2 people. I'll get out in time to enter the next tournament too. =D
I guess I'm either an exception or my motivation will disappear in a couple weeks/months.
 

Lovage

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 15, 2007
Messages
6,746
Location
STANKONIA CA
I think letting the MBR be readable to everyone would keep a lotta people interested in smashboards, get more people thinking about high-level smash and overall increase how much ppl know about the game. cuz usually the melee discussion boards have really stale discussion and pros rarely post cuz the topics are so bad lol

so i think letting everyone see what the pros think would help a lot in keeping people interested and keep them thinking about the game
 

LatexRhombus

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
271
Location
Penn State
lol glad you are enjoying it mooo :)

but yea, as somebody mentioned its hard to get some people to want to practice and what not....unfortunately that aspect of the game isn't for everyone :( regardless, it would be very nice to see the community grow as far as i'm concerned
 

Sim

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 28, 2010
Messages
167
Location
Quebec City
I agree with this thread.

Being disrespectful to/excessive sandbagging with/completely ignoring newcomers deters them from playing smash competitively. For instance, I was playing with a bunch of new players lately and well, they didn't really stand a chance. Shield rolled all over the place and stuff. Instead of just walking away after ****** them I played with them extensively, revealing my own weaknesses, giving advices as to how to edgeguard my character (well it's hard to edgeguard peach but I started picking falco), telling in advance what I will do and stuff, and they started learning, and I picked low-tiers so they wouldn't get 4-stocked, and they started to have hope to one day defeat me, and much more.

And they offered to play again soon. I'll oblige them!

I think if you just **** newcomers and go away you'll be sure to never see them again.
 

Shadow Huan

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
2,224
Location
Springfield, MA
Living in WMA I must say that it took a long time for me to feel like i wasn't an outsider at the EMA tournies, and I actually felt accepted at the last one i went to (As in people actually noticed i was leaving lol) so in my exp. cliques can indeed be a barrier.

I gotta get in on an amateur tourny since i read (while lurking) that they've started to do those and i think that's an excellent idea, gotta get into one once my sabbitical from tournies is over with... if it's ever over with.

/ramble


EDIT


"Being disrespectful to/excessive sandbagging with/completely ignoring newcomers deters them from playing smash competitively. For instance, I was playing with a bunch of new players lately and well, they didn't really stand a chance. Shield rolled all over the place and stuff. Instead of just walking away after ****** them I played with them extensively, revealing my own weaknesses, giving advices as to how to edgeguard my character (well it's hard to edgeguard peach but I started picking falco), telling in advance what I will do and stuff, and they started learning, and I picked low-tiers so they wouldn't get 4-stocked, and they started to have hope to one day defeat me, and much more."

I agree completely with this. i had some bad experiences with certain excessive sandbaggers almost two years ago when i started. Humiliation followed. I very rarely sandbag unless i'm teaching someone how to play. different from being a ****...

DOUBLE EDIT: Since the thread hasn't moved and i'll be kicked off this computer soon (LOL)

Someone said at some point (don't have time to hunt down the thread/post) that Smashboards could somehow start it's own MLG type thing.

although it sounds impractical to me it's a decent idea... *goes away*
 

LatexRhombus

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
271
Location
Penn State
Someone said at some point (don't have time to hunt down the thread/post) that Smashboards could somehow start it's own MLG type thing.

although it sounds impractical to me it's a decent idea... *goes away*
well it's another potential incentive. since many players aren't really viable to compete for money, some form of ranking system that would give points to all tournaments registered on smash boards, perhaps by region, would offer some form of motivation for lower players. rather than have to beat pro-level players they could at least be rated and compete for rating points against other lower level players in their area. or something like that, just another potential idea that could be developed to encourage new players to get involved
 

tarheeljks

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 18, 2006
Messages
1,857
Location
land of the free
I've had a number of people who were interested in competitive Melee. Problem is that hardly any of them are keen/interested in practicing and learning at least the basics. I can't seem to get them to commit even a little time into it.

Nice post btw. I'd like to comment more on it, but I have some work to finish atm.
this game is prob too old to expect most too players truly to immerse themselves in it. best way to get people playing is to make the gameplay organic. so not necessarily having to practice in their rooms, but feeling like they can go to a tourney and have some fun/play some good matches. made htis post in the match casting thread

tarheeljks said:
sounds like a great idea. don't have anything to add wrt casting, but on the topic of expanding the community:

running more amateur/swiss brackets at smaller tournaments seems like a good way to boost participation. i know it can cause logistical problems and that top players may oppose it b/c they have to wait longer to play, but if expansion is a goal then these brackets can accommodate newer players or get casual players more involved in the tourney scene. the learning curve for this game is steep, so making it easier for this set of players to play meaningful matches against each other would be beneficial to growth
so i obv agree w/am brackets and the like. think swiss is prob best tbh but it's hard/time consuming to run. and i agree completely w/lovage
 

N.A.G.A.C.E

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
2,919
Location
NY (LI)
i would suggest for anyone in collage, you should find out if there is some kind of gamer club and if so go there see if u can raise interest in melee. If there is no club then i u could try to start one or find some way to meet others who play melee pr would be interested in learning the game, and lastly if u r in a club like this u could try to advertise around campus to draw interest from people who maybe dont know about the club

edit: i should add at the school i just graduated from we have a club and we got new players interested in melee, i dont think the game is to old to have people immerse themselves in it as long as its fun and the good players teach the bad ones i think the community can still grow
 

tarheeljks

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 18, 2006
Messages
1,857
Location
land of the free
i prob spoke too generally. there is and always will be some % of people who will immerse themselves in a game and will just try to get good no matter what, but in this instance think that group consists largely of hardcore gamers who are likely already aware of the game and have moved on or still play it. so i think it will be difficult to find people who are willing to immediately jump in and shoot for the moon, but i don't think that means no growth is possible. on the contrary i think there is an untapped pool of people who play this game, they just don't necessarily visit the boards religiously or go to tournaments (there are loads of them in norcal). getting these casual players more involved, which doesn't have to constitute turning them into hardcore smashers, feels like a more realistic goal in the short term
 

N.A.G.A.C.E

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
2,919
Location
NY (LI)
^ i am not sure if that is directed at my post. if it is i would like u to know its late were i am and i am tired so i did not read all the posts in this thread and what i said was not relating to anything u wrote, i was just kinda going of personal experience in how i and people i know got into smash and how it could help the community. but i agree with u that making casual players is a realistic goal and out of people i know who i or others around me got into smash only a small number are on the hardcore side. most are more casual but they are casual with more knowledge of the game then most casuals would normally have plus they are aware of smashboards. Anyway if even a small amount become hardcore its good for the community and casual players are also nice to add as well.
 

TheGoat

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 30, 2010
Messages
584
Agreed on number 2.
Also if there is time, especially for local tournaments, try something different than the "50 people get in 17th place" (you get what I'm taking about) system. Every local tournament I see a bunch of scrubs, myself included, who end up playing people much more experienced than them in brackets and consequently losing; nothing wrong with that, but the problem is that they are out of the bracket for good along with 5 other scrubs. And they never get to play each other.
 

Marth307

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
234
Location
Laramie WY
If tourneys used amatuer brackets i would definatly be willing to travel a litle farther to participate,i feel like i would dominste casual players but would have a challenge if i played ppl in the "learning process" my progress is slow but noticable im wave dahing 1 out of every 4 to 5 tries now...XD i practice it exclusivly for about an hour when i get home...but playing against other people at this level would help growth more than just getting your *** handed to you game 1 IMO
 

LatexRhombus

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
271
Location
Penn State
its rough paying for a tourney and getting knocked out in 2 games to players way above your level without any form of pools or swiss or anything; more of that definitely needs to be incorporated to make things more fair for the newer players, rather than spending so much effort focusing on making things fair for just the highly competitive-level players.

regardless, it's good to hear from relatively new joiners to the boards what would work for them :), keep posting =P
 

Lovage

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 15, 2007
Messages
6,746
Location
STANKONIA CA
OR locals that draw a really tiny crowd.

we had a biweekly series for a while in oxnard which is pretty far from pretty much everyone, but for the 12-15 people that came out, we ran mini-pools and went into a 4 or 6 man bracket so the people who came out feel like they got their money worth (at least that's the idea)

we also did more best of 5 sets and stuff since time wasn't an issue at all for a small turnout.
 

N.A.G.A.C.E

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
2,919
Location
NY (LI)
i think we need to find a way to have more smashfests. some players who want to get better but dont want to pay for a tourney when they know they will just get there ***** kicked and be out of the tourney fast might be up for a smashfest. maybe u can get them to pay for the fest (like a venue fee, or if its at someones house maybe a venue fee/money to order pizzas or something). Another added advantage of a smashfest and a reason people might be willing to pay is b/c even if u r not the best u can just stick around and keep playing when u are next in line for a tv. I would also suggest that at these smashfest the better players take time to help people who want to get better, maybe this means pointing out mistakes while playing them or showing them what they should be doing instead, or explaining how to do some kind of AT or something they are having trouble with.

I believe the people in the community must be active and helpful if you want the community to grow. (Also the smash community is usually nice but make extra sure not to be to big of ****s to bad players unless they are *******s and deserve it
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
I really like the idea of comparing lower skilled players amongst each other. I mean, I know pretty accurately how well I rank up against the few players in my region who are near my skill level, but that's less than a handful of people and an attempt to improve enough to significantly to say I am better than them past a certain point takes too long. MD/VA recently started up a PR, but it only includes the top 10 players so for average players like me, getting on the PR isn't that reasonable of a goal yet, let alone for a player just starting out.

Even if it was something as basic as a GameBattles-style ladder where your ranking is determined by experience, and the higher your rank, the more experience you are worth to beat. This way, when I improve just slightly at tournaments (even if it means just getting one round further than in previous tournaments, or beating a player I previously lost to) my improvement would be displayed by a ranking on a national scale, and I would jump up multiple places. Unfortunately, a system like this would probably be really hard to get into place, and even then it would be months before there are enough players on the database to start accurately comparing skill levels.

I would say the best bet is just general kindness towards newbies at tournaments, ESPECIALLY from top players. You don't have to spend an hour giving them lessons on basics, but simply playing them in 3-4 friendlies and perhaps giving them some basic advice makes a huge difference. I also think it's important to talk to them about non-Melee related stuff so they actually feel more comfortable in the community. A lot of the more experienced/older players tend to be good friends with each other, and it's painfully obvious as a new player that you are not on the same level of companionship as other players. Easy ways to get rid of that awkwardness could be anything from inviting them to eat with everyone else during the lunch break/after the tourney, or asking them how they did in their matches (and make sure they don't get down on themselves for getting destroyed). I know a lot of people feel like it should be the job of the new player to put themselves out there, but it's much easier/comfortable for the veterans, and the new players don't always have a lot of vested interested in the tournament scene (yet).
 

Redact

Professional Nice Guy
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Messages
3,811
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Amazing Land
We always have extra setups available at tourneys here, apart from the major AUS tourneys, the standard 30-40 person turnout tourney has more than 10 setups, theres so much spare time for friendlies and everything that people easily get their moneys worth by coming.

We very rarely get players who don't come back, the only players that seem to leave are the players that grow out of the game (after years and years in the scene)

The community here is very down to earth, everyone helps everyone and no one needs to be convinced to return.

We get pretty decent exposure through running side by side tournaments with many other lan/console events and keep drawing new players each time.

We have it pretty lucky here in Melbourne. The scene is so social that it is more about those casual meets rather than how tournaments go.
 

Cactuar

El Fuego
BRoomer
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Mar 10, 2006
Messages
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Philadephia, PA
I would really like to see side tournaments of everyone who goes 0-2 or 1-2 at locals. Winner gets free entry to the next event or something like that.
 

Metal Reeper

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Messages
2,285
Location
Abington PA
I think a lot of players should try and teach more people (I'm sure everyone does) I have taught about 6 people how to play. 4 of them still play today. But I just found 2 more pupils and 1 has TONS of potential :)

I agree with advertising and posting flyers. The FB group approach has also shown much succsess in many events (Non-Melee) that I have been to.
I think a huge issue is that our community is very friendly but we need to be extra friendly to new players and encourage them to keep going.

I taught myself, and anyone else around me that I could. I plan on one day making a thread talking about how to teach people smash, what are the best ways to teach, how to relate tactics to the indiviusals psychology, etc.
 

LatexRhombus

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
271
Location
Penn State
I would really like to see side tournaments of everyone who goes 0-2 or 1-2 at locals. Winner gets free entry to the next event or something like that.
epic idea. that would definitely serve to bring people back and keep them interested early on when they are more likely to become frustrated and feel like they're throwing away all them moniez

also, what lovage said, pools and the like might even be more significant in smaller tournies; not everyone who attends needs to be put in a bracket and there is a definite divide between how people will play friendlys vs tournament matches; playing friendlys the whole time, although fun, is a pretty big step away from tournaments
 

Metal Reeper

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Messages
2,285
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Abington PA
^Unless you play seriouslies ^_^
I agree pools would be much better. I love pools. Me being an average player makes even me feel that I actually have a chance. It's a great false hope tool :D
 

Massive

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
2,833
Location
Kansas City, MO
I think a decent way to get some good exposure would be to get some kind of sponsorship for some of the bigger smash tournaments. Pizza/Fast food restaurants could easily make a huge chunk of money offering food on site at big tournaments, and the money they stand to make could easily net them more than they dropped on the venue.
This could lessen venue fees and shift some responsibility of exposure onto the shoulders of the sponsor (they may advertise for us!).

Another thing that would draw more people to tourneys is coming up with an advertisibly large cash prize. If joe-bro six-pack sees they could make $1000 playing a game they recall being OK at, they might enter and try to win the big bucks. Even if most of the random people this attracts disappear, there will be some people who carry over and decided to join our community based on this exposure.

Also, Melee emulation is nearly perfect on dolphin with a reasonably fast machine; netplay is possible but there are still some errors to work out. The entry barrier is still a lot higher than a gamecube and thrift-store TV right now, but in 4 or 5 years, $300 integrated video laptops will be able to play the game without much difficulty. That will likely be the online Renaissance for melee.
 

LatexRhombus

Smash Journeyman
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Jan 13, 2007
Messages
271
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Penn State
although the bigger pots, obviously makes tournaments bigger, i think it serves to attract higher level players opposed to new ones, who i believe are more likely to start out getting involved with small local tournaments with low entry fees and low payouts, as opposed to traveling to more costly tournaments with big payouts. also, big sponsorships and pots are fairly impractical for local tournaments, but if you can get that to work, power to you :)
 

Comrade

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
292
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Memphis
The only true reason I can think of for keeping the backroom hidden is so that people don't flood the board with flame/stupid threads commenting on things said in the backroom. However, it has gotten to the point where transparency is key. I don't know about everyone else, but I'd much rather see what's being said in the backroom and deal with the eventual spam than be totally out-of-the-loop.
 

Cactuar

El Fuego
BRoomer
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Mar 10, 2006
Messages
4,820
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Philadephia, PA
We have a compromise in mind for how the new MBR will function in regard to transparency, as well as enabling public input to some extent. That has been in motion for weeks now.
 

Kuro Neko

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
72
Location
Manehattan
The only true reason I can think of for keeping the backroom hidden is so that people don't flood the board with flame/stupid threads commenting on things said in the backroom.
Agreed. And I don't really see this as a serious potential problem.
 

Plum

Has never eaten a plum.
Premium
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
3,458
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Rochester, NY
If anybody listened to the most recent Loser's Bracket podcast there was some very promising stuff from Sundance, CEO of MLG.

http://www.vvv-gaming.com/forum/topic/49048-losers-bracket-round-60/

He said that in regards to Smash throwbacks at future MLG events it would be partly decided by community interest. Basically, enough of us expressing desire to see Melee back at an MLG event could make it happen. I think it would be silly to think that they wouldn't want to have Melee back considering it's key role in MLG's history, they just need to know that the Melee community wants it enough.

If you want something positive for the community I can't imagine something much better than being on the MLG stage again.
 

The Star King

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
9,681
We have a compromise in mind for how the new MBR will function in regard to transparency, as well as enabling public input to some extent. That has been in motion for weeks now.
Let me guess. A thread with updates and summaries on stuff the MBR is discussing for the public to talk about?
 

iode

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
Messages
44
Location
New Jersey
I see Project M carrying melee's torch in the future. Project's M's development, completion, along with thorough testing and tweaking would probably mark melee's end as it brings similar gameplay onto a larger and more technologically advanced platform. The addition of more matchups, characters, and stages, along with the versatility of it being able to be altered and tweaked in accordance to agreements within the MBR would allow for balance like we have never known before. The more modern engine, along with the contemporary Wii console would also be a much better starting point for online play than anything the aged Gamecube console can offer.
 

LatexRhombus

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
271
Location
Penn State
realistically, i don't think project M would ever get a big base of people to play it. melee players have melee, brawl players have brawl, imo project m doesn't really have a base of people who want it to replace the game they play. i have no objections to people spending so much time to hack brawl, but i don't really find it to be a very practical use of time. but we'll see, maybe i'm way off.

regardless, if people aren't involved w/ the community, they wouldn't even come to know about project M and it would probably have a steeper learning curve than brawl
 

KishPrime

King of the Ship of Fools
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Jun 22, 2003
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7,739
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Indiana
I've always advocated for the Back Room to be publicly viewable on some level.

Shrug. There are good reasons to have a private forum, and threads can still be moved out once discussion wraps up, which I think should be the default policy.
 

Massive

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
2,833
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Kansas City, MO
realistically, i don't think project M would ever get a big base of people to play it. melee players have melee, brawl players have brawl, imo project m doesn't really have a base of people who want it to replace the game they play. i have no objections to people spending so much time to hack brawl, but i don't really find it to be a very practical use of time. but we'll see, maybe i'm way off.

regardless, if people aren't involved w/ the community, they wouldn't even come to know about project M and it would probably have a steeper learning curve than brawl
I agree with this. There is very little way a random person on the internet will run across project M if they weren't looking for something like it. Most people aren't even aware that you can mod console games at all.

Another big issue for widescale project M adoption is that it requires additional action to be taken to play the game. Even if it is made as simple as running the install/launch application from an SD card, it is still a higher entry barrier than before.

Finally, and probably the largest problem for project M is that it is not authorized by nintendo. While nintendo has been really accommodating with unauthorized use of their IP in the past, they are quite capable of changing their minds. It could be as major as a Cease and Desist letter or just a series of silent software updates requiring everyone to get a new version.

I do entertain fantasies of Project M being widespread though, it's seriously fun and feels like what brawl was supposed to be.
 
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