Comparison of the American and Japanese Tier List

[xDD-Master]

Hello.

I made a comparison of the American and the Japanese Tier List. See what it looks like :

I had to took Zelda/Shiek twice, otherwise there would be problems. (For Example Ganondorf would have +1 because they have 1 less character although he is still the last...).

The 5 most "Different" Character-rankings are:
Maybe "Overrated" by America:
Wario
Pikachu
IC
Kirby
Sonic
Maybe "Underrated" by America:
Pit
Fox
Wolf
Zelda/Shiek
Link


I also connected those two tier lists to a new one:

Points means the American-Tier+Japanese Tier


The American Tier List I took: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=236407 (v3.0)
Japanese one: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=231731 (v???)

It will be interesting to see if the tier lists ever look very similar or not. For now there are some big disagreements. So let's wait for new information from Japan ^^

Maybe there Wario will rise too

~Discuss

 

[Douk]

I have a theory: Wario is the stereotypical American in a foreigner's view. And Pit is the stereotypical Japanese kid in an American's view........

Good to know that everyone agrees on Snake's strength, it would've been weird if the list was completely different.

 

[RP`]

That is very interesting. I want to hear why they think Pit is so high, since that is probably the biggest difference IMO.

 

[Throwback]

I'd like to think the Japanese list is more accurate at the bottom of the tier list...lol

 

[Cold Fusion]

I really wonder what Japan sees in Fox.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

I lol'ed at your terminology. Overrated and underrated by America? Perhaps underrated and overrated by Japan would be more accurate considering that our metagame is farther than theirs currently. They aren't bad by any means, of course. But America dominates in Smash rather thoroughly. Japan does concentrate on different areas of progression than America does (like true combos and what not), so it can give some sort of perspective on things, I guess.

Also, as a note, Masashi is one of Japan's best overall players, and he uses Pit. That would account for Pit's high placing on their list.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I lol'ed at your terminology. Overrated and underrated by America? Perhaps underrated and overrated by Japan would be more accurate considering that our metagame is farther than theirs currently. They aren't bad by any means, of course. But America dominates in Smash rather thoroughly. Japan does concentrate on different areas of progression than America does (like true combos and what not), so it can give some sort of perspective on things, I guess.

Also, as a note, Masashi is one of Japan's best overall players, and he uses Pit. That would account for Pit's high placing on their list.

I don't subscribe to the idea that Japan plays a lot differently than America does. Their players might not be quite as good, but they play very similarly if not the same, so if Pit is performing well in that environment because a good player is playing Pit, then Pit might also perform better here if, say, Ally played Pit.

The top half of the brawl cast is balanced enough that it all comes down to who's playing what. The M2ks, Allys, and Atomsks of the world aren't playing Pit because he wasn't the obvious choice out of the box. That is the biggest factor. The reason we tend to gravitate towards the obvious winners in America is because we play for money IMO. The Japanese don't play for money (although they do take the game just as seriously) so there's less reason for them not to tinker with obscure or strange characters.

As a side note, you could say the same thing for ROB in America as you said about Pit in Japan. Our best players started off playing ROB, but he didn't turn out so great down the line.

 

[M.K]

Japanese Brawl players are very, very aggressive with characters like Fox and Falco, hence why they have higher positions on their tier list.
I'm trying to find the video of a Fox Japanese player. If anyone finds it, post it here.

EDIT: Found it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEm-rQHRtvQ

Another aggressive Mario:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8WZySNYqS4&feature=related

TL;DR Version? Japanese players are more aggressive in general.

 

[xDD-Master]

I lol'ed at your terminology. Overrated and underrated by America? Perhaps underrated and overrated by Japan would be more accurate considering that our metagame is farther than theirs currently.

You're right thats why I added the word maybe and the "s

They aren't bad by any means, of course. But America dominates in Smash rather thoroughly. Japan does concentrate on different areas of progression than America does (like true combos and what not), so it can give some sort of perspective on things, I guess.

Yeah thats right but their Ike is higher than yours xD (Our should I said ours... hm I'm not sure, Europe has no tier list xD)

It's funny to see how every space animal is higher in their list than in ours. It seems like they really like laz0rgunz. Also they seem to love Link and put his metagame very far compared to ours (I say a link using a Lock combo on a snake and defeating him... that was pretty nice).

Also, as a note, Masashi is one of Japan's best overall players, and he uses Pit. That would account for Pit's high placing on their list.

This also seems be true, a similar thing happened in Germany, when Serpit (A lucas player) ***** everyone, Lucas was a hard oppenant. Same with reaper and his ROB. We also have pretty nice ZSSs and Yoshis which is why they are also overrated here.

 

[salaboB]

This also seems be true, a similar thing happened in Germany, when Serpit (A lucas player) ***** everyone, Lucas was a hard oppenant. Same with reaper and his ROB. We also have pretty nice ZSSs and Yoshis which is why they are also overrated here.

Yoshi is so overrated, he's a whole two positions higher on the list!

TWO!

(Same for ZSS actually)

 

[Tomkraven]

I lol'ed at your terminology. Overrated and underrated by America? Perhaps underrated and overrated by Japan would be more accurate considering that our metagame is farther than theirs currently. They aren't bad by any means, of course. But America dominates in Smash rather thoroughly. Japan does concentrate on different areas of progression than America does (like true combos and what not), so it can give some sort of perspective on things, I guess.

Also, as a note, Masashi is one of Japan's best overall players, and he uses Pit. That would account for Pit's high placing on their list.

I dont think that American metagame is much farther from japanese, what i think is that japanese have like to think that all fighting games are camping contests where characters with proyectiles must camp and keep distance all the time while firing whatever they fire and fast characters with good aproaches are the ones that can keep up with them. Why do you think their time per match is 10 mins? Because they know that camping takes time...

This strategy is very useful and smart but utterly booooooring. Japaneses are too methodical and that makes it boring. If you dont believe me watch japanese street fighter matches.

 

[_Phloat_]

Japanese Brawl players are very, very aggressive with characters like Fox and Falco, hence why they have higher positions on their tier list.
I'm trying to find the video of a Fox Japanese player. If anyone finds it, post it here.

EDIT: Found it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEm-rQHRtvQ

Another aggressive Mario:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8WZySNYqS4&feature=related

TL;DR Version? Japanese players are more aggressive in general.

Because those are recent, and great representations of Japan's metagame.

 

[IxxI]

Because those are recent, and great representations of Japan's metagame.

I love your sarcasm Phloat. :D

Although, Snake matches I've seen are still pretty campy.

 

[metaXzero]

Yeah, IIRC the Japanese started out more agressive, then they started to camp (even harder then us at some point).

I wonder if their will be a International thing someday like back in Melee's days...

Why does someone always bring up that old Zentore w/e Fox Falco vid?

 

[_Phloat_]

I dunno why it is always brought up. I know as soon as I see the link about japanese players being aggressive, its that...

 

[Mota]

WOW amazing list. Im surprised by how far there Pit is on the Tiers. They must have some awesome Pits.

 

[IxxI]

I want Japanese to come to Genesis. =[

 

[M.K]

Because those are recent, and great representations of Japan's metagame.

Okay, you wanna point me to any recent Japanese videos?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

What we need I think is a more unified smash community. We have very few people that are dealing with the japanese and relying stuff back to the SWF and I think vica versa. From what I have heard, most people in europe follow the SWF.

We need to become bilangual people. Learn another langauge xD

*note: if the site I found is the authentic one, then the german smash boards have a much cooler layout than SWF does xD

 

[Red Arremer]

The Japanese don't think Ganon is the last character, they put him last so he can have his own G Tier (G for Ganondorf, y'know).

 

[Silent Beast]

Okay, you wanna point me to any recent Japanese videos?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=232920

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

The Japanese don't think Ganon is the last character, they put him last so he can have his own G Tier (G for Ganondorf, y'know).

No, they do think he's worst. They don't think he's so bad that he deserves his own tier.

 

[clowsui]

lmao you guys need to stop judging japan off of two videos

kel, one of our very own players, is there right now and i'm pretty sure at one point he asked them if their game was any different than ours - IT'S NOT. THEY CAMP AS MUCH AS WE DO, THEY PLAY AS AGGRESSIVELY/DEFENSIVELY AS WE DO, ETC.

 

[Zankoku]

Okay, you wanna point me to any recent Japanese videos?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4xkpj3mS28
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViBniZRgqbc

lmao you guys need to stop judging japan off of two videos

kel, one of our very own players, is there right now and i'm pretty sure at one point he asked them if their game was any different than ours - IT'S NOT. THEY CAMP AS MUCH AS WE DO, THEY PLAY AS AGGRESSIVELY/DEFENSIVELY AS WE DO, ETC.

BIG DIFFERENCE: They have far more emphasis on clean execution than we do.

 

[Mr.E]

As a side note, you could say the same thing for ROB in America as you said about Pit in Japan. Our best players started off playing ROB, but he didn't turn out so great down the line.

Who? "Gained notoriety by winning the first big Wi-Fi tournament" Overswarm? "As well known for being Ally's brother as he is for being a legitimately good player" Holy? "More recognized as a Diddy player than ROB player" NinjaLink? ROB didn't merely "turn out not so great," he lacks representation at high levels of play. It's not because he's a bad character, judging by the latest revision to the tier list, he just... isn't used very often.

 

[Kewkky]

Who? "Gained notoriety by winning the first big Wi-Fi tournament" Overswarm? "As well known for being Ally's brother as he is for being a legitimately good player" Holy? "More recognized as a Diddy player than ROB player" NinjaLink? ROB didn't merely "turn out not so great," he lacks representation at high levels of play. It's not because he's a bad character, judging by the latest revision to the tier list, he just... isn't used very often.

Agreed. Same could be said about Kirby (I mean, come on... Chudat is still the only widely-accepted top Kirby main), Olimar (on a serious note: can anyone point me to a great Olimar player? I wanna watch vids), and a couple others who I haven't payed attention to.

 

[Nefarious B]

Andy G Icylight and Blackwaltz are names you can search for Olimar. I think Andy quit Olimar out of boredom though lol.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Who? "Gained notoriety by winning the first big Wi-Fi tournament" Overswarm? "As well known for being Ally's brother as he is for being a legitimately good player" Holy? "More recognized as a Diddy player than ROB player" NinjaLink? ROB didn't merely "turn out not so great," he lacks representation at high levels of play. It's not because he's a bad character, judging by the latest revision to the tier list, he just... isn't used very often.

ROB's game is going stale. Plus, two characters now have foostool infinites on him (and more are probably coming); one's the "third worst" character in the game and the other is used in tourney play.

 

[uhmuzing]

That's awesome. Though everybody agrees that Marth is seventh.

 

[bobson]

Japan camps just as much as we do, although I imagine they have less players who are specifically trying to piss everyone off.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Pit's position in the japanese version makes me want to gouge my eyes out. Link in high tier would probably look more natural.

It's all based of dominance in the tourney scene though, so Pit must have some really good players using him. There's no way a character as limited as Pit can be in the position he is down to his own qualities.

Is Fox pretty popular down in Japan thanks to his Melee days? I could see that contributing towards his pretty high placement.

 

[CRASHiC]

How is Pit limited?
He has an option for everything.
That was the worst word you could possibly use to describe why Pit shouldn't be that high.
Its like saying Luigi's recovery is limited.

 

[POKE40]

When looking at Japan's list..
I almost couldn't find Wario...

 

[Kewkky]

Its like saying Luigi's recovery is limited.

Yes, limited to 3 of his 4 special attacks, when characters usually have 1.

 

[tocador]

How is Pit limited?
He has an option for everything.
That was the worst word you could possibly use to describe why Pit shouldn't be that high.
Its like saying Luigi's recovery is limited.

But luigi recovery IS limited.

/jk

Pit isnt "limited", but just that basicaly all his "awsome non limiting-moves" resume to Arrow mindgames and GTFO moves :O!

Ok if you look that way even falco is limited with "laser + cg", but that's just how pit's playstile usually look. And yeah i know there are aggro pit's and stuff, i was just giveing a example U.u

 

[demonictoonlink]

I think their Pits just camp more ^^

 

[Mr.E]

ROB's game is going stale. Plus, two characters now have foostool infinites on him (and more are probably coming); one's the "third worst" character in the game and the other is used in tourney play.

The same thing didn't stop Wario from shooting to third in our latest tier list. There's not exactly a revolution in playstyle going on with most of the upper-tier characters, though the previously midr-tier ones who HAVE gotten such a jolt seem to have the best chance of shooting up in the future. Diddy before, likely ZSS in the near future, even Pikachu's three-spot jump with the advent of the new chaingrab stuff.

Anyway, to get on another subject, I'm kinda surprise Pit hasn't found much success here (along with a couple others). He doesn't have any particularly terrible match-ups and he has a tool for virtually every circumstance. Maybe he just suffers a lack of representation here too. I mean, one of Japan's best players mains him... Any notable Pit players here? Not really. :/ I'm just speculating.

Yes, Luigi's recovery is pretty limited. It's limited by his terrible natural drift speed and the fact he can only direct himself straight horizontal or straight vertical with his Specials.

 

[Nanaki]

I don't really understand the reason Mario and Luigi are interpreted so differently here than they are in Japan. Their movesets don't really lend them to widely varied playstyles (camping, spamming, etc.), maybe it's just that other characters are intererpreted differently, not the Bros themselves.

Any thoughts on the Mario Bros? Mario's actually above Luigi in Japan too, and significantly higher on their tier list than ours (while Luigi is significantly lower).

 

[Mr.E]

Thoughts on why we interpret them differently or why we have Luigi way higher?

Mario's Fireball is significantly better and his Cape is a fantastic utility tool and reflector, making him a much better at both camping and approaching than Luigi. Luigi has ridiculously dangerous kill moves where Mario is somewhat weak. They're not as alike as their movesets would imply -- more like Ness/Lucas than Falcon/Ganon, yeah?

 

[.Marik]

Pit is pretty solid, he has no glaring weaknesses. Could possibly very well be bottom of A Tier.

Link is pretty godd@mn high.

I'm sure we focus on different aspects on the competitive metagame than Japan does, though.

I think ours is more accurate.