COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[JM94]

That's just wrong JM. The people that didn't like it didn't like it because Wolf's shine is a combo breaking move that has early invincibility. A combo breaking move with early invincibility with set knockback means easy combos for damage or easy combos for kills out of a combo breaker...that's fairly broken.

I thought he was talking about the footstool thing. XD

 

[kupo15]

Well as I said for the foot stools, it was an experimental thing because it happens by accident for anyways and the plussery wanted to try it out. I can easily remove it for the next update.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Yeah, it's pretty easy to take out. In fact, I think I'm just going to take it out myself for this one.

Oh, random question. .. When you freeze Port Town Aero Dive, does it freeze it right at the starting line (the same place the reversed Port Town stops at), or does it freeze at the location of the track that the platform is at right when the starting counter says "go"?

I want to test out what happens to some stage when frozen/reversed, but it's pretty time-consuming, so if anyone has tested some of them out already, it would save me a good amount of time.
I've done some searching around, so I already know the problems with reversing Summit, Frigate Orpheon (still curious what Giza meant by "OH GAWD MY EARS" for those two ), Castle Seige, and Delfino Plaza, as well as the minor problems with Rainbow Cruise and Norfair. I also know what happens to Green Greens, thanks to Giza. But aside from any of these aforementioned stages, does anyone else know how reversing other stages affects them?

Also, if I recall correctly, Green Greens had a farther death boundary in kupo's previous releases. Is it still the case for this current release?

 

[Bong Kong]

kupo i played your Brawl+ today and I have to say that it is in fact the most beautiful thing I have ever seen in relation to smash. I was so glad to finally see Captain Falcon be the best character with no one to contest him. my friends complained that their characters could not do anything, but I know thats just because I am way too good with Captain Falcon. My one friend plays Ike and he thinks that Ike is too slow and has no chance of winning, keeps calling him worse than he was in regular Brawl. He suggested to make his entire D tilt spike and make it so you can move faster out of it too. Something like making his smash attacks killing lower too as they are so hard to hit. The other friend plays Zelda and she is so unfair. I beat him almost every game, but just barely. That explosion attack she has in the air kills really low. Its definetly too strong and needs nerfed. Her smash attacks also build up so much damage its just not fair. Link is also really scary. I played him and he killed so easy, he just beat everyone down in every way and was definetly unfair. you need to nerf him now. Also hitstun is way too high it needs to be lower because combos are way too easy. Recovery is way too easy too. People just keep coming back. Making everyone fall faster would be a good way to take care of that. i am glad you made it so that you cannot air dodge out of tumble because it just made combos that much better. one of my friends was mashing buttons to get out and actually broke his control stick. i guess that just means that he sucks. And you should definetly put in L cancelling like in Melee because that kind of tech skill is definetly needed in a game like this. It brings about so much more skill. oh and while you are at it you need to put in wavedashing because its so awesome. One of the guys was playing the ice climbers and they were so so so so so so so good. their throw game was crazy and that thing he kept doing to make the pink one teleport all over the map just made them almost unbeatable. They are scary and need nerfed badly. Bowser is obviously overpowered as well. His headbutt attack killed me at 30 damage. that is definetly unfair. other than those few little things this was the best smash game i have ever played. keep up the good work.

 

[RyuReiatsu]

Mostly Stupid Statements with nothing to back them up.

*Ack* WALL OF TEXT! MY EYES!

*Cough* In all seriousness...
You're definitely WRONG, everybody's unfair, is that what you are saying?
I won't even go into details, I can't believe you think that THIS character and THAT one are BROKEN. That they need NERFS, crap. Bet you're the first person that complains about THAT MANY characters being BROKEN.

L-Canceling, Wavedashing? They've already talked about it, NO. Auto L-canceling and no wavedashing. I've added it, just because I've started playing Melee and became dependant to it.

Seriously, I'm gonna be an *** about it.
That post was as honorable as an idiot running nude in a **** coffee shop.

 

[Eaode]

Tell that to the good players in Texas. I thought the same as you for a while and laughed when told that they footstooled on purpose, but it turns out they weren't kidding. It just takes practice like any other tech and if you watch them do it, they're not just mashing jump. They time that shiz.

Oh, ZSS users use it quite frequently as well.

(Not arguing for/against, just pointing out the flaws in someone else's argument.)

I'm not saying that it doesn't get utilized effectively (well my wording might have implied that but that's my mistake). I've seen people use footstools effectively and plan them out and do creative things with them.

That does not, however, dismiss the stupid accidental occurrences of footstooling. I personally don't use footstool much; I didn't play vBrawl that long (like a month). Most of the time I see footstools in my matches are when a) I accidentally do them (maybe taking a stock), b) my opponent accidentally does them (maybe taking a stock), or c) the stupid, non-affecting footstools, which happen just as often accidentally.

I like the idea of footstools and their creative implementation

Spoiler

(I don't like that everyone gets a recovery-safe homogenized spike however but that might just be me)

, but like vBrawl powershielding, it happens often enough without intention to influence a match every once in a while (and getting an accidental footstool has much more dire consequences than a PS)

Just mah $0.02

 

[storm92]

*Ack* WALL OF TEXT! MY EYES!

*Cough* In all seriousness...
You're definitely WRONG, everybody's unfair, is that what you are saying?
I won't even go into details, I can't believe you think that THIS character and THAT one are BROKEN. That they need NERFS, crap. Bet you're the first person that complains about THAT MANY characters being BROKEN.

L-Canceling, Wavedashing? They've already talked about it, NO. Auto L-canceling and no wavedashing. I've added it, just because I've started playing Melee and became dependant to it.

Seriously, I'm gonna be an *** about it.
That post was as honorable as an idiot running nude in a **** coffee shop.

Stop, you're feeding the troll. ._.

 

[RyuReiatsu]

I'm not saying that it doesn't get utilized effectively (well my wording might have implied that but that's my mistake). I've seen people use footstools effectively and plan them out and do creative things with them.

That does not, however, dismiss the stupid accidental occurrences of footstooling. I personally don't use footstool much; I didn't play vBrawl that long (like a month). Most of the time I see footstools in my matches are when a) I accidentally do them (maybe taking a stock), b) my opponent accidentally does them (maybe taking a stock), or c) the stupid, non-affecting footstools, which happen just as often accidentally.

I like the idea of footstools and their creative implementation

Spoiler

(I don't like that everyone gets a recovery-safe homogenized spike however but that might just be me)

, but like vBrawl powershielding, it happens often enough without intention to influence a match every once in a while (and getting an accidental footstool has much more dire consequences than a PS)

Just mah $0.02

I understand your feelings, I don't like it either.
But when people will come to the highest level of play, I'm pretty sure you'll see pros using it consistently. Putting more depths into the game, since it gives you more aerial options.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

Meh, while footstool is annnoying, it potentially increases recovery, and can be used to punish reckless, off stage kills.

 

[kupo15]

Oh, random question. .. When you freeze Port Town Aero Dive, does it freeze it right at the starting line (the same place the reversed Port Town stops at), or does it freeze at the location of the track that the platform is at right when the starting counter says "go"?

I want to test out what happens to some stage when frozen/reversed, but it's pretty time-consuming, so if anyone has tested some of them out already, it would save me a good amount of time.
I've done some searching around, so I already know the problems with reversing Summit, Frigate Orpheon (still curious what Giza meant by "OH GAWD MY EARS" for those two ), Castle Seige, and Delfino Plaza, as well as the minor problems with Rainbow Cruise and Norfair. I also know what happens to Green Greens, thanks to Giza. But aside from any of these aforementioned stages, does anyone else know how reversing other stages affects them?

I am not sure

Also, if I recall correctly, Green Greens had a farther death boundary in kupo's previous releases. Is it still the case for this current release?

Yea. I haven't changed it.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

Erm, Kupo, will you get rid of that wierd scrolling thing? I wanna use sum textures on scrolling stages...

 

[kupo15]

Erm, Kupo, will you get rid of that wierd scrolling thing? I wanna use sum textures on scrolling stages...

all you have to do is remove the camera codes. I think its only one of the two that affect it

 

[cookieM0Nster]

all you have to do is remove the camera codes. I think its only one of the two that affect it

Do you know which one it is?

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Here's something I forgot to mention. Although dash grabs' wind-down lag is decreased, and wind-down lag of standing grabs for extended grabbers are lessened, dash pivot grabs still have the same lag as vBrawl. Is there not a code to speed that up, or was it just overlooked, or what?

Also, what's new about this and the latest plussery codes that requires Gecko 1.9?

 

[kupo15]

Do you know which one it is?

I believe it is the first camera code listed

Here's something I forgot to mention. Although dash grabs' wind-down lag is decreased, and wind-down lag of standing grabs for extended grabbers are lessened, dash pivot grabs still have the same lag as vBrawl. Is there not a code to speed that up, or was it just overlooked, or what?

Yes, pivot grabs are definitely changeable. I can decrease them as well if you would like

Also, what's new about this and the latest plussery codes that requires Gecko 1.9?

Remember when we had a 256 line limit how easy it was to replace the code sets using the code manager? That is what the new gecko does. It uses one gct like when we first started but holds 8000 lines instead. Its much easier to work with and unlike the double gct method, all codes work for this.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

Thanks, kupo. Also, look@ the thread that i just posted in the Workshop. There r sum textures 4 ya

 

[GHNeko]

Also, what's new about this and the latest plussery codes that requires Gecko 1.9?

Line space. Lol.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Yes, pivot grabs are definitely changeable. I can decrease them as well if you would like

It's not like it's that important to me, but I just find it slightly annoying that pivot grabs have much more lag than the other types of grabs. It makes the use of pivot grabs nearly zero for these extended grabbers when the other grabs have so little lag, which is a shame when you really need it. But then again, if you don't miss, it shouldn't be a problem. But all in all, it should be kept constant, so if one has reduced lag, the others should, too. I'm not sure who exactly is in charge of choosing what codes should be in the plussery set, but are they aware of this?

Remember when we had a 256 line limit how easy it was to replace the code sets using the code manager? That is what the new gecko does. It uses one gct like when we first started but holds 8000 lines instead. Its much easier to work with and unlike the double gct method, all codes work for this.

Yeah, I'm aware of that, but can the snapshot method run all of the codes that works with this new method? (Snapshots are convenient since you can choose to play vBrawl with textures without needing a computer to change the .gct file, since you can just simply not load the snapshot.)

 

[kupo15]

It's not like it's that important to me, but I just find it slightly annoying that pivot grabs have much more lag than the other types of grabs. It makes the use of pivot grabs nearly zero for these extended grabbers when the other grabs have so little lag, which is a shame when you really need it. But then again, if you don't miss, it shouldn't be a problem. But all in all, it should be kept constant, so if one has reduced lag, the others should, too. I'm not sure who exactly is in charge of choosing what codes should be in the plussery set, but are they aware of this?
Yeah, I'm aware of that, but can the snapshot method run all of the codes that works with this new method? (Snapshots are convenient since you can choose to play vBrawl with textures without needing a computer to change the .gct file, since you can just simply not load the snapshot.)

Yes, snapshots will work with all the codes.

It only makes sense with the pivot grabs. Ill do it

 

[cookieM0Nster]

Yes, snapshots will work with all the codes.

It only makes sense with the pivot grabs. Ill do it

That pivot grab thing will be sweet! Yea, pivot grabs are only good with characters like Yoshi.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

It looks like Wolf's shine hits upwards again on the latest Plussery set (although it looks like it hits farther than before, due to the +50 in BKB and KBG).

Anyway, I think the gravity is a little too much at 1.4. The Plussery set doesn't even come anywhere close to 1.4 (their closest is Fox at 1.2). Wasn't the previous dgrav at 1.3? I think that one was pretty good.

Also, I like how left-taunt allows Samus and ZSS to switch back and forth, but there's the side effect of allowing Wario and Bowser to transform into Warioman and Giga Bowser at will (not sure if this is well known or not)... I'm not sure if this is in the Plussery as well, but it's pretty annoying when I play computers and they use this when they get a KO (they always seem to use left-taunt for some reason), giving them another free KO (or close to one at least). I guess when playing humans, they can agree to not use the left-taunt with Wario and Bowser (and use right, instead), but this problem should be fixed ASAP.

 

[kupo15]

Anyway, I think the gravity is a little too much at 1.4. The Plussery set doesn't even come anywhere close to 1.4 (their closest is Fox at 1.2). Wasn't the previous dgrav at 1.3? I think that one was pretty good.

.

It depends on which previous you were talking about. The one before this was 1.375

 

[Perfect Chaos]

The last code of yours that I tried was the one that was released on April 21.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

The last code of yours that I tried was the one that was released on April 21.

What code wuz that????

 

[Deleted member]

kupo, noy to sound annoying but I have a couple requests

-I appreciate you changed the PAL code link to my new thread, but could you be so kind to mention that it is still under construction (and it would be nice to give it that awesome red colour again, but that's up to you)

-just looked over the contributions list, and wondered what qualifies someone as major contributor? and who is shortfuse?

thanks in advance

 

[leafgreen386]

Anyway, I think the gravity is a little too much at 1.4. The Plussery set doesn't even come anywhere close to 1.4 (their closest is Fox at 1.2). Wasn't the previous dgrav at 1.3? I think that one was pretty good.

I should note that dgrav and fgrav multiply together to give you your total dgrav, so fox, who has 1.2 dgrav and 1.1 fgrav (well, not in the newest beta, where he has far more fgrav and reduced dgrav, but in the officially released one, anyway) actually has 1.32 dgrav.

 

[kupo15]

kupo, noy to sound annoying but I have a couple requests

-I appreciate you changed the PAL code link to my new thread, but could you be so kind to mention that it is still under construction (and it would be nice to give it that awesome red colour again, but that's up to you)

Sure thing

-just looked over the contributions list, and wondered what qualifies someone as major contributor? and who is shortfuse?

thanks in advance

I really have no idea what qualifies to be a "major contributor" And it seems as if a lot of our hackers did so much work that a lot of them deserve it. I guess I'll make it for those who stick around and are the major coders of the project. I should add you as well if I didn't in which I am sorry.

Shortfuse did the tweaker, helped a lot with the snapshot stuff, was going to make the brawl+ gecko until the gecko_brawl came out, and he has said that he will create a Brawl+ channel as well. So he may not be a hacker like yourself but he has done a different type of hacking.

 

[Deleted member]

ah I remember. yes that was some nice stuff he made. thanks for reminding, and thanks for the link adjustment

 

[Phase]

all though on paper DIable and fast falling lasers/fireballs etc... sounds cool i believe this would be extremely (lack of a better word) GAY!

yes it sounds cool but come on... lasers fly straight! imagine all the gay deaths that will be caused by falco when your off the ledge.

please don't try to add this to b+

 

[Revven]

You can already DI Wolf's and Mario's lasers/fireballs, they aren't broken, are they? No, I think we should try to get a code for DIable lasers for Fox and Falco just to see what happens.

 

[Rudra]

all though on paper DIable and fast falling lasers/fireballs etc... sounds cool i believe this would be extremely (lack of a better word) GAY!
yes it sounds cool but come on... lasers fly straight! imagine all the gay deaths that will be caused by falco when your off the ledge.
please don't try to add this to b+

Then don't get hit offstage, or know when you will be hit as to UpB again before you fall too far.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

Then don't get hit offstage, or know when you will be hit as to UpB again before you fall too far.

This. Just play smart, and everything will be OK.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

BTW, I've encountered a problem on the 15% bigger Yoshi's Island. Since the stage gets bigger but the ghost-supported platforms on either side stays the same, as the stage gets bigger, those platforms get closer to the main stage. AT 15%, it they are close enough that the don't allow you to hang while those platforms are up. So whenever you try to hang on the ledge, they either force you on the platform, or force you to drop, depending on your character. Pretty annoying if you ask me.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

BTW, I've encountered a problem on the 15% bigger Yoshi's Island. Since the stage gets bigger but the ghost-supported platforms on either side stays the same, as the stage gets bigger, those platforms get closer to the main stage. AT 15%, it they are close enough that the don't allow you to hang while those platforms are up. So whenever you try to hang on the ledge, they either force you on the platform, or force you to drop, depending on your character. Pretty annoying if you ask me.

yea, I have noticed this to. However, I just have 2 say this:


EVERYONE POST YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT KUPO'S NIGHTLY SET IN THE BRAWL+ NIGHTLY BUILD THREAD!!!

 

[abcool]

all though on paper DIable and fast falling lasers/fireballs etc... sounds cool i believe this would be extremely (lack of a better word) GAY!

yes it sounds cool but come on... lasers fly straight! imagine all the gay deaths that will be caused by falco when your off the ledge.

please don't try to add this to b+

First off i think you are confused. When i said diable lasers i meant control fox/falco movement during aerial laser animation like everyone else in this game. nothing about control laser trajectory..... that=not broken.

 

[cobaltblue]

yea, I have noticed this to. However, I just have 2 say this:


EVERYONE POST YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT KUPO'S NIGHTLY SET IN THE BRAWL+ NIGHTLY BUILD THREAD!!!

Kupo's set isn't the nightly build....


Really need to get around to making a topic though kupo, it'd speed up your development and input process.

 

[shanus]

actually kupo's nightly can be discussed in the nightly builds thread. The builds thread just ask that people not go debating he differences between sets, but to discuss changes within a set.

 

[kupo15]

actually kupo's nightly can be discussed in the nightly builds thread. The builds thread just ask that people not go debating he differences between sets, but to discuss changes within a set.

This.

This is the whole point of the nightly builds.

 

[Almas]

Well, I think it is important for differences between sets to be discussed in the context of anything which could successfully be transferred from one to the other. I would just not want the thread to degrade into a trivial argument about which one is more enjoyable/has more competitive value.

 

[GPDP]

Which reminds me.

Kupo, have you considered changing your codeset's grav values around per leafgreen's recommendations?