COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[shanus]

Anyone here have much coding experience? I think it would be cool later on if we could make a homebrew app where we could download the official Brawl+ updates/releases directly to our SD cards? I think that would be nifty!

 

[MuBa]

Anyone here have much coding experience? I think it would be cool later on if we could make a homebrew app where we could download the official Brawl+ updates/releases directly to our SD cards? I think that would be nifty!

Technically you CAN do that. The HomeBrew Browser have downloadable contents that will go straight to your SD card. Perhaps if we can make something similar to this then it would be awesome.

But for now we can use megaupload to upload .gct files for Brawl+

 

[shanus]

Technically you CAN do that. The HomeBrew Browser have downloadable contents that will go straight to your SD card. Perhaps if we can make something similar to this then it would be awesome.

But for now we can use megaupload to upload .gct files for Brawl+

Yeah I figured it would be a nice to–do item to toss on the first page at least :D

 

[Ryusuta]

It's been awhile since I've kept up with Brawl+. Has anyone made a dummy recovery animation for R.O.B. so he can be played with directional air dodge?

 

[MuBa]

It's been awhile since I've kept up with Brawl+. Has anyone made a dummy recovery animation for R.O.B. so he can be played with directional air dodge?

You are waaay behind on this lol but yes the Melee Airdodge code has been fixed.

 

[Ryusuta]

That's odd, because I just tried the GCT file, and the directional airdodge code didn't work at all.

 

[Deleted member]

what's the difference between beta 7 and beta 7.2 of shieldstun?

 

[shanus]

I just played with your code for a while Kupo. I think the shieldstun is still a bit too high. Its getting there, but its still very hard to get a shield grab off (at least against computers)

Anyone else get to use it yet?

 

[Yeroc]

I'm still trying to understand how it works, but documentation on the code is either hard to find or not very forthcoming. I'm still testing 7.2, which I've been using in place of it yesterday.

 

[shanus]

if we ever wanted to bring back a technique like moonwalking, how would that be done?

 

[MookieRah]

There is all this confusion over the decay system of brawl, and after thinking about it I'm kinda with Almas on the issue. Why go through all this effort to minimize it when we have a 1 line code that removes it? Honestly, from a competitive standpoint this is a way better idea. Whenever you downthrow someone at 30% with Falcon you KNOW how far they will go every time, only difference is in which direction do they go due to DI. I think this would just be ideal overall.

I'm not sure if we even need to have a universal knockback reduction if we used this code like I originally though, cause I was comboing just fine on 1/4th decay, which is really close to being no decay on most hits.

DIFFERENT SUBJECT

Shield gain, shield loss, etc.

One thing that I really like about Brawl is that breaking shields is quite a viable strategy, as it's faster to destroy a shield than in melee. At the same time the shields recharge faster. I have seen some people talking about lowering the speed at which shields recover, and that would be a terrible idea. Again, we can only nerf the defensive options so much before we have a completely offensive game, and if you make it to where people are shield breaking left and right it would just be DUMB. Honestly, there isn't a need to tweak this, cause it's working fine as is.

 

[shanus]

There is all this confusion over the decay system of brawl, and after thinking about it I'm kinda with Almas on the issue. Why go through all this effort to minimize it when we have a 1 line code that removes it? Honestly, from a competitive standpoint this is a way better idea. Whenever you downthrow someone at 30% with Falcon you KNOW how far they will go every time, only difference is in which direction do they go due to DI. I think this would just be ideal overall.

I'm not sure if we even need to have a universal knockback reduction if we used this code like I originally though, cause I was comboing just fine on 1/4th decay, which is really close to being no decay on most hits.

DIFFERENT SUBJECT

Shield gain, shield loss, etc.

One thing that I really like about Brawl is that breaking shields is quite a viable strategy, as it's faster to destroy a shield than in melee. At the same time the shields recharge faster. I have seen some people talking about lowering the speed at which shields recover, and that would be a terrible idea. Again, we can only nerf the defensive options so much before we have a completely offensive game, and if you make it to where people are shield breaking left and right it would just be DUMB. Honestly, there isn't a need to tweak this, cause it's working fine as is.

I agree 100%. No decay, no shield regen nerfs.

 

[Deleted member]

same here. that should be the standard

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

decay adds depth though.. you don't want people setting up for the same killers, you want them expanding upon their other moves. in no way do i want the old decay system, but to at least weaken it a bit would be fine. there's a whole brawl mindset around saving your finishing moves which kind of makes it interesting, and to remove that completely would be a minus to the overall gameplay, imo.

 

[shanus]

decay adds depth though.. you don't want people setting up for the same killers, you want them expanding upon their other moves. in no way do i want the old decay system, but to at least weaken it a bit would be fine. there's a whole brawl mindset around saving your finishing moves which kind of makes it interesting, and to remove that completely would be a minus to the overall gameplay, imo.

melee didnt have it and it was good to me haha

To me, if I read a tech with a short hop knee, and they leave them selves open to a second knee, I think I shouldnt be punished for using it twice. Sure it encourages spamming a bit more, but with the system we use now with 25% decay, its just kinda pointless.

 

[Ryusuta]

So, I'm looking through the code lists... and... did people just give up on directional air dodging entirely, or what?

 

[kupo15]

I don't think shieldstun is directly proportional to decay in the way you're thinking of, kupo. I doubt attacks decay so little under custom decay setups that they warrant such a drastic decrease in shieldstun.

Probably, but I realized that the decay of the move causes decay in the shield stun and depending on if you have 100% decay or no decay, that number could change quite a bit if you want multi hit moves to have some sort of shield pressure when they are stale

what's the difference between beta 7 and beta 7.2 of shieldstun?

One works with Almas' jump MOD code??

There is all this confusion over the decay system of brawl, and after thinking about it I'm kinda with Almas on the issue. Why go through all this effort to minimize it when we have a 1 line code that removes it? Honestly, from a competitive standpoint this is a way better idea. Whenever you downthrow someone at 30% with Falcon you KNOW how far they will go every time, only difference is in which direction do they go due to DI. I think this would just be ideal overall.

I'm not sure if we even need to have a universal knockback reduction if we used this code like I originally though, cause I was comboing just fine on 1/4th decay, which is really close to being no decay on most hits.

DIFFERENT SUBJECT

Shield gain, shield loss, etc.

One thing that I really like about Brawl is that breaking shields is quite a viable strategy, as it's faster to destroy a shield than in melee. At the same time the shields recharge faster. I have seen some people talking about lowering the speed at which shields recover, and that would be a terrible idea. Again, we can only nerf the defensive options so much before we have a completely offensive game, and if you make it to where people are shield breaking left and right it would just be DUMB. Honestly, there isn't a need to tweak this, cause it's working fine as is.

Well, as jiang said, that save your kill move is a brawl thing that we need to consider and I think a little decay is needed like maybe 1/8th decay. That 1/8th decay could be the difference between death as we've experienced in melee.

As far as the shields. I can't say I agree with shield breaking be a viable strategy as they stand one bit. I have never broken a shield because they regen way too fast unless your GaW or MK.

melee didnt have it and it was good to me haha

To me, if I read a tech with a short hop knee, and they leave them selves open to a second knee, I think I shouldnt be punished for using it twice. Sure it encourages spamming a bit more, but with the system we use now with 25% decay, its just kinda pointless.

Melee had a decay system

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

the decay system in melee only affect damage. despite this though, the decay in damage does translate to a loss in knockback (because you're doing less damage thus your attacks don't send as far as they would've normally).

so, although brawl's decay system affects both knockback and damage, we can probably emulate melees by just making the decay system more subtle. toppled onto the mindset that we have to save killing blows (which i think is kind of fun, and it obviously won't be as much of a deal) you can keep the depth but not have matches last til 170%.

So, I'm looking through the code lists... and... did people just give up on directional air dodging entirely, or what?

yes, there's several reasons why it's probably not going to be used for the official code set, however, you are more than welcome to use it yourself. the one air dodge isn't nearly as broken with hitstun involved, and many of us find dash dancing to be a suitable replacement for the mobility gained through wavedashing.

 

[Zilactic]

i think the whole decay would be great with a 1/8th decay system. if you inputted a decay system somewhat similar to the melee decay system, i think that would add enough depth.

im with shanus on this . i dont think i should be punished that much for using a move twice. wouldnt the decay eventually mess up timing for combos or anything like that? ( if it was too high i mean)

on another note... regarding the HAD. if this code was made would you still be able to do it directionally or would it just be a BAD that could only be usable once?

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

i think the whole decay would be great with a 1/8th decay system. if you inputted a decay system somewhat similar to the melee decay system, i think that would add enough depth.

im with shanus on this . i dont think i should be punished that much for using a move twice. wouldnt the decay eventually mess up timing for combos or anything like that? ( if it was too high i mean)

on another note... regarding the HAD. if this code was made would you still be able to do it directionally or would it just be a BAD that could only be usable once?

well, the degree of decay is still up for grabs, however, i don't think we should remove it all together and call it a day.

the HAD would just reduce your BAD to one. with brawl's floaty nature i don't think this will work too well.

 

[Darth JoBak]

reduce the effect of decay without losing the function of decay

 

[MookieRah]

Well, as jiang said, that save your kill move is a brawl thing that we need to consider and I think a little decay is needed like maybe 1/8th decay. That 1/8th decay could be the difference between death as we've experienced in melee.

When I play with quarter decay I don't even notice decay and don't even bother trying to conserve moves. It makes so little of a difference that it removes the actual idea behind decay. Considering you guys want to limit it even more, I ask what is the point? 1/8th would make everyone just play without worrying about decay. Why not just save everyone the need in testing, and save 5 lines of code and just nullify decay altogether?

toppled onto the mindset that we have to save killing blows (which i think is kind of fun, and it obviously won't be as much of a deal) you can keep the depth but not have matches last til 170%.

Melee's decay system never added depth to begin with. The whole mechanic of "decayed moves" was set up by Sakurai to try and force you to use more moves. A better way to do this would have been to make other moves useful, as opposed to forcing people to diversify which is not a good thing at all. The decay system doesn't serve to increase your options, it serves as an arbitrary limitation to prevent you from using a characters' best moves in succession. There is nothing wrong with spamming one move if it is working on your opponent. The ONLY moves that need to be decayed are Meta's broken B moves, and maybe Snake's utilt. Outside of that, the game works well.

Decay is just simply a lazy mechanic set into place because Sakurai and his teams don't know how to make a moveset composed of all useful moves, pure and simple.

 

[kupo15]

the HAD would just reduce your BAD to one. with brawl's floaty nature i don't think this will work too well.

No. HAD allows infinite brawl ADes and 1 MAD depending on how you input it

Ill be willing to give it a try mookie but doesn't other fighters have some sort of decay involved as well? I know MvC2 (I think) the combo deals less damage if you do the same infinite combo but I don't know how that game works

 

[Zilactic]

what do you mean by "depending on how you input it?"

 

[Almas]

The updated forms of Spunits shieldstun codes are just there fixing little mistakes he kept making - none of them EVER interfered with my jump code. I don't know what the mistakes were, but it was probably just trivial stuff (dividing before multiplying etc.).

On that note, though, Spunit, do you think that in the final version you could make it (multiply+plus)/divide? That allows for fractional additions as well as multiplications. I don't want to play around with your code any more than I did with the hitlag one.

EDIT: Input block without a direction to get a BAD, input block with a direction to get a MAD.

 

[Yeroc]

I can't get SS beta 5 to work anymore. It won't load. Are there any known float values that would cause it not to work?

 

[kupo15]

Almas, why would one use that version of the code as opposed to the hex form?

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

No. HAD allows infinite brawl ADes and 1 MAD depending on how you input it

Ill be willing to give it a try mookie but doesn't other fighters have some sort of decay involved as well? I know MvC2 (I think) the combo deals less damage if you do the same infinite combo but I don't know how that game works

oh oops. i was thinking about the other one.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

When I play with quarter decay I don't even notice decay and don't even bother trying to conserve moves. It makes so little of a difference that it removes the actual idea behind decay. Considering you guys want to limit it even more, I ask what is the point? 1/8th would make everyone just play without worrying about decay. Why not just save everyone the need in testing, and save 5 lines of code and just nullify decay altogether?

Melee's decay system never added depth to begin with. The whole mechanic of "decayed moves" was set up by Sakurai to try and force you to use more moves. A better way to do this would have been to make other moves useful, as opposed to forcing people to diversify which is not a good thing at all. The decay system doesn't serve to increase your options, it serves as an arbitrary limitation to prevent you from using a characters' best moves in succession. There is nothing wrong with spamming one move if it is working on your opponent. The ONLY moves that need to be decayed are Meta's broken B moves, and maybe Snake's utilt. Outside of that, the game works well.

Decay is just simply a lazy mechanic set into place because Sakurai and his teams don't know how to make a moveset composed of all useful moves, pure and simple.

i see. you have a point there.

however, when zelda kills you with her lightning kicks at 70% 3 times you might want to think otherwise.

 

[Deleted member]

I would like to try out SBAD, where you don't get helpless afterward

 

[kupo15]

I would like to try out SBAD, where you don't get helpless afterward

Can you post the code?

 

[Deleted member]

i would like to as in I don't have it

 

[Osi]

So the codes I took off almas's list are crashing my wii lol

mid match, not at boot

 

[kupo15]

i would like to as in I don't have it

oh I thought you said you tried it out before by using the last lines of MAD code or something but it didn't work for anyone but you or something.

 

[Almas]

If it's causing a crash it's probably the shieldstun code, because I added that one without playing it based on my previous values. Spunit since updated that one.

I'll edit my previous post.

My Codelist

I would think the main reason to use the integer version is the line reduction, yes. All floats can be represented in the form m/n, so there's no disadvantage. Although it should really be rearranged to multiply->add->divide to give more customizability.

 

[Osi]

Well it does seem to happen when shield was used. We had 3 crashes mid match and gave up for the day. The codes from your list I took were hitstun, SS, gravity, and SH.

1. Was falcon doing a SH nair out of a DD towards samus, crash before we ever hit each other. I think the was shielding.

2. Was samus shooting a missile on stage, I falcon kick down at her, then it crashes as I hit her as she perfect shields.

3. Was wolf SH lazers at me, I attempt a spot dodge with it a bit in front of me and it crashes the second I hit down.

 

[kupo15]

it was the shield stun that caused the problems even if the shield wasn't used

 

[Alopex]

Would that be the 7.2 that caused the problem?


EDIT: And I'm still not seeing an answer as to why you would use 7.2 over 5, and if 7.2 is causing the above glitch...

 

[Deleted member]

I use 7.2 I tjink and it works fine

 

[kupo15]

W/e is in the OP is what works. I don't know why you would use one version over the other. Spunit saw what Almas did with the hitlag code and decided to replicate it to save lines.