COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[Yeroc]

All the same, I see Alopex's point here guys. "It's ok for glitches we like to stay in, but ones we don't have to go. Oh, that one that we made by mistake, that we can keep too."

It's one thing to make it harder to recover because if you don't space your recovery right you run the risk of getting attacked. But to make it so that you can't even live unless you do things properly, on top of having to avoid assailants, that's downright discriminatory. It's an oversight, and it needs to be corrected. Write Diddy out of the code or something, which should only take an extra line, or scrap it entirely IMO. It's currently the biggest code we have, and I'm still not convinced it's even one of the essentials. Like someone else said, off-stage edgeguarding is certainly a viable alternative.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

Uh... the DACUS is not OP. If we really have to nerf snake, just reduce the power on his utilt so it doesn't kill until 130% or so.

that would pretty much do it, wouldn't it?

 

[johe]

Snake does not need a nerf.

He is, at best, High tier. He can barely combo and it is very easy to combo him.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

Snake does not need a nerf.

He is, at best, High tier. He can barely combo and it is very easy to combo him.

dash uptilt uptilt upair backair

what?

 

[johe]

dash uptilt uptilt upair backair

what?

Well then, shows what I know

*slinks away*

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

also his grenades can combo into anything. he can knee -> c4 lol

 

[johe]

also his grenades can combo into anything. he can knee -> c4 lol

Crap, my ignorance has been revealed.

I need to stop playing uber defensive with snake

I still stand by my statement that he does not need a nerf.

 

[plasmatorture]

I don't think Snake needs a nerf, he's a good character, but Fox, Kirby, Marth, and others are around his level if not better.

 

[Unseen_Killa]

So guys, we should seriously get an IRC channel going.

Like, I'm about to make one myself serious.

 

[maplesyrupandjam]

So guys, we should seriously get an IRC channel going.

Like, I'm about to make one myself serious.

That would be incredible. Please do. I would really like to find some people to play against.

 

[Alopex]

Well, vertical KO's have been apparently somewhat nerfed, so that might stop his Utilt from being godly like it is now.

It's just ridiculous range with ridiculous power. Shaving off 20% from its kill potential really wouldn't do anything to cripple him, but it would make him have to work a little bit more for his kills. It's not uncommon to see a Snake spamming the Utilt when the kill percentage is reached. Sad part is how often that actually ends up getting the kill when it shouldn't be a viable tactic... but the Utilt is just that strong.

 

[Almas]

Ugh, another dull night of going through hunks of confusing code. I really regret not saving a couple of values that I found another night (most notably walk speed), because knowing them would make my life SO much easier.
For some reason the game keeps on checking the value in memory that corresponds to your dash acceleration while you're in the air (or just standing still).

I DID manage to find where velocities and positions are stored, and the relevant code that puts them there. However, for some reason there are two sets of velocity information (that is, 2 sets of horizontal and 2 sets of vertical), which tend to always be the same (although I didn't test in too much detail). In theory it may be possible to speed up all velocities in general using this knowledge (make all jumps, movement, up+bs etc. faster without affecting anything else), but it may be tricky as it's hard to find safe places to write to because of the structure of the game's code.

Ah well.

 

[CountKaiser]

Good Luck with that Almas. I'm sure you'll figure something out.

While we're on the topic of momentum, what gravity setting does everyone have? I use

1.05 up
1.1 down
1.1 fastfall
0.9 SH

This works well. Feels nice, quick, and tight, but Sonic's up-b feels like an anvil is tied to his feet. Any suggestions as to what I could use?

Also, when you suggest gravity, also suggest the corresponding dash speed and hitstun.

 

[Shell]

The 1.05 up is affecting his up-B. Removing it and compensating with something else will fix that.

I've been playing around with

1.25 down
.9 SH
1.15 Dash
normal fastfall

I tried 1.05 up, but I'm not sure if I'll keep it.

 

[leafgreen386]

Ugh, another dull night of going through hunks of confusing code. I really regret not saving a couple of values that I found another night (most notably walk speed), because knowing them would make my life SO much easier.
For some reason the game keeps on checking the value in memory that corresponds to your dash acceleration while you're in the air (or just standing still).

I DID manage to find where velocities and positions are stored, and the relevant code that puts them there. However, for some reason there are two sets of velocity information (that is, 2 sets of horizontal and 2 sets of vertical), which tend to always be the same (although I didn't test in too much detail). In theory it may be possible to speed up all velocities in general using this knowledge (make all jumps, movement, up+bs etc. faster without affecting anything else), but it may be tricky as it's hard to find safe places to write to because of the structure of the game's code.

Ah well.

Have you tried hitting someone when testing those two sets of velocity? I know the game calculates knockback separately from other motion...

Either way, it's cool that you're making progress. I'm sure you'll get it. =)

 

[Starscream]

I play with:

1.25 Down
0.9 Short hop height
Normal Fast fall
1.1 Dash Speed
0.49 Hitstun

It's great, I urge everyone to play with this setting.

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

I play:

1.3 down gravity
0.95 up gravity
0.9 shorthop
1.1 fastfall
1.2 dash speed
0.48 hitstun

I'd also reccommend, at least, giving it a try.

 

[shanus]

I love my codeset, its official.

BTW, i need to delay getting my vids up as I have no video out on my dvd player so i need to go buy some **** to hook up the camera to my wii.

 

[Alopex]

You know, I was contemplating coming here a couple of days ago and asking what are the gravity/fall/jump settings that everyone is using, but I can see that would've been futile.

It's going to take a long time to find a standard for those, isn't it?

 

[Team Giza]

Ganondorf is sad because of all your code sets :l

 

[leafgreen386]

Where are all the grav 1.1ers? lol

1.1 downgrav
1.0 upgrav
1.0-1.1 dash speed? Dunno. Still testing.
.5 hitstun - might drop it a little if I increase dash speed
no sh or ff alterations

edit: apparently this was my 1500th post

 

[shanus]

Where are all the grav 1.1ers? lol

1.1 downgrav
1.0 upgrav
1.0-1.1 dash speed? Dunno. Still testing.
.5 hitstun - might drop it a little if I increase dash speed
no sh or ff alterations

im at 1.15 grav, 1.1 dash speed. 9.5% hitstun, feels perfect.

 

[Team Giza]

1.1 down grav
1.0 up grav
1.1 dashspeed
.49 hitstun
1.2 fastfall
No change shorthop

 

[johe]

Where are all the grav 1.1ers? lol

1.1 downgrav
1.0 upgrav
1.0-1.1 dash speed? Dunno. Still testing.
.5 hitstun - might drop it a little if I increase dash speed
no sh or ff alterations

My codeset exactly, except, I actually use 1.17 dash speed and .485 hitstun. I may actually lower the hitstun though

 

[CountKaiser]

There doesn't seem to be any sort of consensus on gravity settings. We should probably get a universally accepted set of values ready before a possible air momentum code comes out. Without a consensus then, we would just become even more divided on what to use due to the added variable.

Any suggestions on a middle ground?

 

[Yeroc]

1.15 down
.5 hitstun (haven't tested changing this yet, but haven't felt a need to)

This was my codeset before yesterday. Then I also tried

1.15 fastfall
.9 shorthop
1.15 dash

Seemed alright. I might toy with .95 shorthop. I really don't like using too much of anything, I think it's too much of a change, and if we're trying to build support for this project, I think that too radical a shift will turn people away.

 

[zxeon]

1.20 or 1.25 down gravity.

 

[maplesyrupandjam]

I've been looking for Brawl+ players to play against for hours and I have had no luck.. Though I understand it may be inappropriate to ask here; I really don't know where else to go. So is anyone up for a match? My aim is Foxinthesnow91, message me and i can send you my codelist or gtc file.

 

[leafgreen386]

1.20 or 1.25 down gravity.

Sorry, but the highest I'd be willing to go is 1.15. This is how I felt when the grav mods first came out and this is how I feel now.

edit: apparently I have already made 1500 posts. lol

 

[SketchHurricane]

All the same, I see Alopex's point here guys. "It's ok for glitches we like to stay in, but ones we don't have to go. Oh, that one that we made by mistake, that we can keep too."

I see nothing wrong with that logic. It's the same as saying "The codes we like should stay in, and the ones we don't should go." It's perfectly fine to use better judgment in our decisions and not some "code of grace." We're changing that game, keeping the good and discarding the bad. For example:

Remove DACUS? Why on earth would we remove a useful AT that was already in the game for the sake of "grace?"

Diddy's recovery problem should definitely be fixed, because dieing from proper use of your upB is completely ********.

YES lag is technically not fair for Falcon, but guess what? B+ made him leaps and bounds better than he was before, possibly top tier, and having YES lag by no means makes him unplayable. If YES lag gets fixed, yay. If it doesn't, Falcon is still good.

The cypher-grab is in the same boat. If it gets fixed, yay for Snake. If it doesn't, Snake is still ridiculous.

If better judgment regarding necessity and code space leads us not to fix certain things, then that's just the way it is. So far, no ASL screwing Diddy royally is the only thing we've done that requires fixing.

 

[zxeon]

Sorry, but the highest I'd be willing to go is 1.15. This is how I felt when the grav mods first came out and this is how I feel now.

edit: apparently I have already made 1500 posts. lol

Have you tried anything over 1.15?

 

[Yeroc]

I have, and I think it nerfs off-stage edgeguarding and recoveries in general way too much.

 

[leafgreen386]

Have you tried anything over 1.15?

I've tried 1.25 and 1.20, and I thought they were both too much. Then I tried 1.15, and although I felt it was ok, I still thought it was a little too much. I personally think that 1.10 is the best for the game.

 

[Team Giza]

Have you tried anything over 1.15?

I have and I refuse to go over it for the final set. I would prefer 1.1 still though.

 

[Alopex]

I see nothing wrong with that logic. It's the same as saying "The codes we like should stay in, and the ones we don't should go." It's perfectly fine to use better judgment in our decisions and not some "code of grace." We're changing that game, keeping the good and discarding the bad. For example:

Remove DACUS? Why on earth would we remove a useful AT that was already in the game for the sake of "grace?"

Diddy's recovery problem should definitely be fixed, because dieing from proper use of your upB is completely ********.

YES lag is technically not fair for Falcon, but guess what? B+ made him leaps and bounds better than he was before, possibly top tier, and having YES lag by no means makes him unplayable. If YES lag gets fixed, yay. If it doesn't, Falcon is still good.

The cypher-grab is in the same boat. If it gets fixed, yay for Snake. If it doesn't, Snake is still ridiculous.

If better judgment regarding necessity and code space leads us not to fix certain things, then that's just the way it is. So far, no ASL screwing Diddy royally is the only thing we've done that requires fixing.

See, it's funny because you mock my "grace" comment and then your response highlights points I myself made. Which leads me to believe you didn't really understand what I meant at all.

It's pretty simple. Every character should be treated with the same amount of grace in terms of having everything at their disposal work properly.

If Diddy's recovery isn't working properly with ASL, we fix it.
If Falcon's UpB isn't working properly because of YES lag, we fix it.
If Snake's and G&W's UpB are not being returned to them after a grab, we fix them.

We give every character the grace of fixing what doesn't work properly first and foremost. That's the definition of unbiased development.

After we've ensured that, THEN we go and tweak, tone down, adjust things that need adjusting. We don't accept something that's broken as a shortcut to fixing a problem. That's irresponsible and lazy.

I get the feeling we're on the same page, Sketch, so I needed to clear up what being gracious meant in this context. Because you're mocking it without knowing anything about it.

EDIT: You're also misquoting me. I never wanted to remove DACUS. In fact my response post to kupo specifically stated that it's a valuable tool to several characters and needs to be kept. And I was the only one to use the word "grace" in this thread. So please read carefully before you misinterpret things in your responses.

 

[zxeon]

I've tried 1.25 and 1.20, and I thought they were both too much. Then I tried 1.15, and although I felt it was ok, I still thought it was a little too much. I personally think that 1.10 is the best for the game.

I think just about any gravity setting would wor as long as there is a decent speed fast fall. The fact that VB is so floaty is also a weakness.

A short list of why I think so:

It's easy to spam airbourne characters with projectiles

It Limits the variety of combos that can be proformed

Gimping is harder for characters who don't have multiple jumps

With the right characters you could camp all day in midair.

Not as fun to watch >_>

Not as fun to play <_<

 

[cAm8ooo]

So is it impossible to sweet spot with diddys up b or just really hard?

 

[zxeon]

So is it impossible to sweet spot with diddys up b or just really hard?

It's really hard not impossible. I don't know what they where thinking when they made that recovery move.

 

[Alopex]

I'll need to see a video of someone sweetspotting with Diddy and the ASL code on to believe it. I've not even managed to do it at 1/4 speed. He always just explodes even when the position is perfect.

The only time he'll grab the ledge is when he starts freefalling after the UpB wears off. It's not cool.

 

[Team Giza]

It's really hard not impossible. I don't know what they where thinking when they made that recovery move.

Probably that it would autosweetspot.