COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[grim mouser]

Last I knew, the "Hack constants" code to modify SH/FF/Dash Speed/Jump-start/Edges wasn't fully functional. Dash Speed was buggy.

Hack constant (5 lines)

065A9300 0000001C
SHORTHOP DASHDASH
FASTFALL ARIALLAG
LEDGELAG JUMPSTAR
THROWSPD 00000000

I have a concern with the way DDing was coded. At 1.14 Dash speed I can almost DD half of FD as falcon by doing a foxtrot. The foxtrot method gives you considerably more DD coverage than regularly holding both directions. Is this normal because I think Falcon can DD too far. And Yes I think something is wrong with spunits new code for the DD part. Falcon was fine so I assumed everyone was which is not the case like Samus

Posted by Kupo.

Couple things I've noticed while messing around with new codes.

Dash Dancing doesn't work in Spunits latest merger code.
Zamus' run on 1.17x run speed looks incredibly stupid.
Unfortunately faster throws is totally glitched (but you all knew that already).

Posted by Starscream.

 

[kupo15]

Once again I'd like to request reports as to which of spunit's codes function fully. Noone has provided a definite report yet, and as I'm currently producing a character specific code set, I somewhat require precision in the codes used. I don't want to add things that aren't operational yet.

I can't test right now but I think it has to be the whole SH/FF/DD/Throw/jump code and the constant hacks to go with it. To confirm, can someone download my text file and disable this code and see if the reported glitches occur? I hope they don't to confirm that that is the buggy code. If so here is what I suggest we do about fixing it:

Remove the throw speed completely. It doesn't appear compatible with this game by the nature of what it does to the game so we should completely scrap this.

Separate the lagless ledges code. I don't want this code in with all the other constants. I would much rather have the lagless ledge code be a standalone code like the no ASL code because I will never edit it.

Separate the auto l canceling code into a stand alone code as well for the same reasons as the lagless ledges code.


This should make the combined code less complicated.

 

[Revven]

Unseen_Killa and I just played 12 matches with kupo's set and didn't notice a whole lot of bugs with it except Sheik freezing us on the last match when I KOed him and it said "GAME!" We don't know what caused it but, we had no desyncs.

 

[izzy24]

is the no ff on c-stick suppose to stop the fast fall on gaw and sheik's dair?

 

[zxeon]

It's shorter if we keep all the constants together.

 

[GPDP]

is the no ff on c-stick suppose to stop the fast fall on gaw and sheik's dair?

No. It's to make the c-stick not automatically fast-fall dairs. In other words, if you use the c-stick to perform a dair, you won't fast-fall like usual.

 

[izzy24]

No. It's to make the c-stick not automatically fast-fall dairs. In other words, if you use the c-stick to perform a dair, you won't fast-fall like usual.

exactly so shouldn't the code stop sheik and gaw from fast falling when they use their dairs??

 

[Dark Sonic]

exactly so shouldn't the code stop sheik and gaw from fast falling when they use their dairs??

No, that's just the mechanic of those attacks. You may have noticed that Sonic, TL, and ZSS's dairs do that too. That's just a part of the move.

 

[Strong Badam]

They don't fast fall. They gain a trajectory and falling speed /because/ of the attack, similar to a mid-air Falcon Kick.

 

[izzy24]

No, that's just the mechanic of those attacks. You may have noticed that Sonic, TL, and ZSS's dairs do that too. That's just a part of the move.

oh man.... Can we fix that or is that too OP.

 

[cooler1339]

oh man.... Can we fix that or is that too OP.

I have a feeling it's not possible, but I would like that.

 

[Shell]

When we have all of the important codes worked out, you could request it if enough people wanted it.

 

[Dan_X]

Remove the throw speed completely. It doesn't appear compatible with this game by the nature of what it does to the game so we should completely scrap this.

i agree


______

 

[zxeon]

Yeah, the throw speed code isn't doing anything for us but making more problems.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

Yeah, the throw speed code isn't doing anything for us but making more problems.

who asked for such a stupid code anyway?

 

[CountKaiser]

No clue. Did anyone ask for it?

Also, as for auto-fastfall dairs, the only one that has a slowfall to it is Game and Watch's key, and that is a unique property to Game and Watch.

 

[dgameman1]

who asked for such a stupid code anyway?

No one (except Kupo), Spunit just threw-up a code. XD

 

[Iamthemovie]

I have a question about the Dash canceling (with crouch) code.

Is that, in essence, a Crouch Canceling code? Because I remember using this code way back when it first came out and I didn't really help with crouch canceling...

 

[plasmatorture]

kupo asked for it (or at least mentioned wanting it). I think it would've been a good idea if it didn't cause any problem, but then some characters (MK, Squirtle, Diddy...) have such fast throws that speeding them up is crazy.

@Iamthemovie:
This isn't melee's momentum canceling crouch cancel, this is cancel a run with a crouch to do any move (fsmash, dtilt, utilt, etc.) afterwards.

 

[Iamthemovie]

@Iamthemovie:
This isn't melee's momentum canceling crouch cancel, this is cancel a run with a crouch to do any move (fsmash, dtilt, utilt, etc.) afterwards.

Mmm, K, thanks for clearing that up for me.

Though, do you think we'll have an actual Melee-esque CC? I think it's one of the few things that made certain characters' ground game better.

 

[goodoldganon]

I'm not sure exactly how CCing worked, but I thought I read it wasn't a probable code...

 

[izzy24]

The same could be said about HAD.....but watever, we all have our opinions of wat codes are needed and that's why we are here to test them.

 

[storm92]

The same could be said about HAD.....but watever, we all have our opinions of wat codes are needed and that's why we are here to test them.

Well we all don't agree on HAD, not even close =P

 

[kupo15]

who asked for such a stupid code anyway?

I don't think its a stupid code. I mentioned it and never expected spunit to pick it up like he did lol

Question: So I remember when we started this project, our goals were to change as little as possible to make this game great. Do we still feel this way? The more codes that come out the more I feel like screwing that plan and do w/e is necessary to make this game feel as fast and good as it possibly can be. I don't want any unnatural speed or arbitrary increases though...

 

[zxeon]

I don't think its a stupid code. I mentioned it and never expected spunit to pick it up like he did lol

Question: So I remember when we started this project, our goals were to change as little as possible to make this game great. Do we still feel this way? The more codes that come out the more I feel like screwing that plan and do w/e is necessary to make this game feel as fast and good as it possibly can be. I don't want any unnatural speed or arbitrary increases though...

I think we are still working that ideal just that we had to make more changes than we expected. Just because we started out thinking that it shouldn't keep us from making the game better. No matter what changes need to be made. As long as it's for the betterment of the game you won't hear a complaint from me.

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

Hmm... that's a tough question.

In my opinion, instead of making the least amount of changes possible to improve Brawl, what we should be doing is trying to make it the best in the series. What I mean by that, is taking into account all the best parts from all 3 games, mixing it into Brawl and creating Brawl+. A game that feels like all 3, while surpassing them all at the same time. Something that won't alienate hardcore fans of the previous games, while making it globally popular for all.

Kinda like making Smash Bros 4, but ACTUALLY listening to the community.

I'm know that's not the whole goal of Brawl+, but I believe it's an admirable goal. Even if it happens to be entirely out of the reach of us humble gamers.

 

[kupo15]

I can confirm that it was spunits merger code. I took that one off and no freezes

Wizard: Or maybe the goal should be to make a game that we all expected brawl to be.

Mookie: Dude, you need to tell me what you all the changes in your code set. you are using 50% hilag now! I need to change the quote now

 

[GPDP]

I don't think its a stupid code. I mentioned it and never expected spunit to pick it up like he did lol

Question: So I remember when we started this project, our goals were to change as little as possible to make this game great. Do we still feel this way? The more codes that come out the more I feel like screwing that plan and do w/e is necessary to make this game feel as fast and good as it possibly can be. I don't want any unnatural speed or arbitrary increases though...

Here's the thing, though: how fast do we want the game to be? With jump launch power, gravity, dash speed, jump speed, fast fall, and lag reduction mods in the mix, we can theoretically make the game just as fast paced as Melee, without messing with the actual movement mechanics (i.e. characters jump the same height, moves have the same knockback, etc). Well, almost, pending an overall animation boost code to make attacks come out faster, and the momentum jump as well, but still, it's possible.

Do we want it to be that fast, though? If not, then how much faster? In between vBrawl and Melee? Less than that?

I feel that as soon as we get the rest of the "speed" codes in, such as jump and recovery launch power mods and the momentum code, we need to settle this issue, and come up with a vision for the pace of the game we feel would be desirable. If we feel that the game should not attempt to replicate Melee's pacing for sake of differentiation and to throw off the stigma of Melee 2.0, then we won't go there. But we need to decide soon.

 

[Zilactic]

I don't think its a stupid code. I mentioned it and never expected spunit to pick it up like he did lol

Question: So I remember when we started this project, our goals were to change as little as possible to make this game great. Do we still feel this way? The more codes that come out the more I feel like screwing that plan and do w/e is necessary to make this game feel as fast and good as it possibly can be. I don't want any unnatural speed or arbitrary increases though...

I didnt think it was a stupid code either. The concept was good but unfortunately it didnt really work out the way we wanted it to.

To answer your question:
Honestly, i think its inevitable that we are going to "screw" the original plan and do whatever it takes to make the game as fast and fluid as possible. To be frank, i believe we have already screwed that plan considering all of the codes that we are using right now.
I completely agree with you though. I, like you, dont want to go overboard with the speed but hey, if it makes for a better, more competitive, and most of all, more enjoyable game, I would be all for that.

Speed, Tech Skill, and Enjoyability. You cant say no to that!

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

Wizard..?

Yea, that's also a possible goal. But the only problem with the current goal, my suggested goal and your suggested goal is that everyone has a different opinion.

Everyone is gonna have a different opinion on what the best parts from previous games are, and what they expected Brawl to be.

 

[Starscream]

Mookie: Dude, you need to tell me what you all the changes in your code set. you are using 50% hilag now! I need to change the quote now

I find 50% hitlag too much on the low hitlag moves. Have you tried 50% with a breakpoint of 2? It's great. If you need the hitlag code with breakpoints let me know.

 

[kupo15]

Here's the thing, though: how fast do we want the game to be? With jump launch power, gravity, dash speed, jump speed, fast fall, and lag reduction mods in the mix, we can theoretically make the game just as fast paced as Melee, without messing with the actual movement mechanics (i.e. characters jump the same height, moves have the same knockback, etc). Well, almost, pending an overall animation boost code to make attacks come out faster, and the momentum jump as well, but still, it's possible.

Do we want it to be that fast, though? If not, then how much faster? In between vBrawl and Melee? Less than that?

I feel that as soon as we get the rest of the "speed" codes in, such as jump and recovery launch power mods and the momentum code, we need to settle this issue, and come up with a vision for the pace of the game we feel would be desirable. If we feel that the game should not attempt to replicate Melee's pacing for sake of differentiation and to throw off the stigma of Melee 2.0, then we won't go there. But we need to decide soon.

I think replicating melee's pace of play may not be a bad thing as long as it feels right. When someone mentioned bombsoldier, thoughts of his falco SH lasering ran across my mind and the intensity and pace the play and I would love for b+ to be like that instead of being more laid back like it is now.

I think we should push for as fast as possible as long as it feels right. Once it starts to feel fake, then its too much and we need to adjust things.

Star: I am not dgameman1 lol. Yea please give that too me. Ive been meaning to find that code

 

[GPDP]

I might as well chime in on the game's pace. Personally, I think it is almost perfect as it is. We still lack the tools to truly polish the game's pacing (the air game needs to be faster still, and we'll get that with a full suite of launch power mods and upward and downward gravity codes working in conjunction, as well as the momentum code), but the final pace of the game should feel around the same ballpark as it currently is in kupo's and mookie's codeset.

It's not as fast as Melee, but you know what? Melee was too fast IMO. Sure, it gave you that great adrenaline rush, but it tends to be quite exhaustive at times, and sometimes you wanna turn it down a notch. Obviously, vBrawl took that to heart way too seriously, and turned it into a snorefest, but we've since dealt with that. All we're missing is a few key pieces in the puzzle, and we'll get a consistent pace that is not overwhelmingly dependent on twitch gameplay, that gives you time to think, but doesn't run at a snail's pace.

Again, I'm not saying Melee's pacing was bad. For the feeling it gives, it is awesome. You have the potential to do everything at breakneck speed, and it feels amazing when you pull off everything correctly in such a frantic environment. But that was Melee, and this is Brawl+. It's a different game, and even if you replicate the pace, Brawl+ is still built upon the foundation of Brawl, and so is much of the fanbase. If we're gonna get more people on the Brawl+ bandwagon, we'd be wise not to replicate Melee so closely, even if it feels "right". Have the matches be fast, but still allow some breathing room.

However, there's nothing wrong with also developing a "Melee pace" codeset. I'm sure that could be great fun. I'm just not sure Melee's pace would lend itself to a legitimate final version of Brawl+, especially not when most people know Brawl for its slow pace.

 

[kupo15]

I might as well chime in on the game's pace. Personally, I think it is almost perfect as it is. We still lack the tools to truly polish the game's pacing (the air game needs to be faster still, and we'll get that with a full suite of launch power mods and upward and downward gravity codes working in conjunction, as well as the momentum code), but the final pace of the game should feel around the same ballpark as it currently is in kupo's and mookie's codeset.

It's not as fast as Melee, but you know what? Melee was too fast IMO. Sure, it gave you that great adrenaline rush, but it tends to be quite exhaustive at times, and sometimes you wanna turn it down a notch. Obviously, vBrawl took that to heart way too seriously, and turned it into a snorefest, but we've since dealt with that. All we're missing is a few key pieces in the puzzle, and we'll get a consistent pace that is not overwhelmingly dependent on twitch gameplay, that gives you time to think, but doesn't run at a snail's pace.

Yea I guess your right. I think air speed is the key. I also think brawl+ could benefit from a more dynamic camera lol

Mookie: Lagless and TGF don't work in your set. Ill be a nice guy and fix it for you. Did you want to include the no FF on C stick?

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

Yea, the air game seems to be the issues now. Either a global airspeed increase (like the dash speed code, but in the air) or that air speed momentum idea would pretty much round everything off nicely.

The ground game is pretty much done in my opinion.

 

[kupo15]

I guess if the momentum code isn't possible, the next best thing would be better air speed. You won't be able to control yourself like wario in both directions, only one :\

 

[Starscream]

Star: I am not dgameman1 lol. Yea please give that too me. Ive been meaning to find that code

Man I don't even know how his name ended up in place of yours in that quote. That's some crazy ****. Surprised you caught that before the edit.

Hitlag Modifier +break [Phantom Wings, Almas, spunit262] (10 Lines)

C2771EAC 00000004
2C04VVVV 41800010
1C84XXXX 3884ZZZZ
39C0YYYY 7C8473D6
2C040000 00000000
C2876220 00000004
2C04VVVV 41800010
1C84XXXX 3884ZZZZ
39C0YYYY 7C8473D6
80660064 00000000

V is breakpoint.

50% Hitlag, Breakpoint 2

C2771EAC 00000004
2C040002 41800010
1C840005 38840000
39C0000A 7C8473D6
2C040000 00000000
C2876220 00000004
2C040002 41800010
1C840005 38840000
39C0000A 7C8473D6
80660064 00000000

 

[Dan_X]

the aerial momentum code isn't possible?

 

[Starscream]

Who knows, I've yet to hear any news on it from Almas. I think he's working on character specific short hops and gravity right now.

 

[kupo15]

great thanks! I'll add that to the OP. I see everything Scream lol

Btw, my code set is updated