COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[goodoldganon]

HEY ALL YOU BABIES THAT DONT WANT TO LEARN HOW TO RECOVER

use the no-ASL code (you know, the one that makes it so you have to sweetspot your recovery), you larks. it'll only screw you over in the long run, and it teaches you to recover more skillfully.
this is definitely going to be one of the umbilical cords that will be difficult to snip.

EDIT: We'll discuss elsewhere. No sense cluttering it up here

 

[KRSnakey]

So, what code set is the standard at this point? Do we have more Mookie users or is Kupo's the way to go? I know that it's based on personal preference, but generally speaking what is the more popular choice as of now?

I hate getting used to one thing only to find out something else is more accepted (Mupen vs. Project64 crap)

Also, would it be at all possible to come up with some sort of compromise? Having multiple code sets only draws lines in the b+ community, even if it's barely noticable.

I have to get a Brawl+ reference in my sig (or a sig at all )

Thanks again, you champions.

 

[goodoldganon]

It's still being worked on (a firm codeset) but we are getting close. I think a lot of people are using Kupo's set but there are still some tweaks out there. I agree multiple sets draw a rift in the community, even if it's a small one. I'm sure they'll be ironed out when the project is closer to finished.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

EDIT: We'll discuss elsewhere. No sense cluttering it up here

i made a thread on the brawl+ brigade forums.

 

[kupo15]

This project is constantly changing so its there for you try out and adjust it to what you like the best. It doesn't matter whose you use because both will be going through changes. They are very similar though. I guess I should include the non variable codes as well because I think the majority like the idea of a smaller PS window and Mookie doesn't use that in his codeset

Also, would it be at all possible to come up with some sort of compromise? Having multiple code sets only draws lines in the b+ community, even if it's barely noticable.

This is why I won't add MuBa's codeset and he is not the first. You want speed? Its easily achieved without posting it.

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

Does anyone else think that the merger/grouped codes should be grouped/merged in a more categorial way? What I mean is having the .txt split up into groups, and having multi-codes fit into a single group instead of having a "Mixed" category.

Here's what my current codeset looks like with codes removed, but code names remaining:

-----Utility-----

-Allow Replays Longer Than Three Minutes
-Unrestricted Pause Camera
-Constants
-Level Freeze/Reverse

-----Ground Movement-----

-No Tripping
-Dash Dancing
-No Autosweetspot Ledges

----- Air Movement-----

-Upwards/Downwards Gravity Modifier
-Triple Jump Fix
-No FastFall on C-stick

-----Offense-----

-P.Trainer Infinite Stamina
-1/2 power stale system
-Hitlag Modifier
-Hitstun

-----Defense-----

-Shield Stun
-Shield Gain Modifier
-Power Shield Modifier

-----Mixed-----

-Aerial Lag Reduction/Lagless Ledges/Dash Cancel/Quicker Start Jumps/Faster Throws
-Short Hop Height/Dash Speed/Fastfall Speed Multiplier

I know it might be a bit OCD, but I think it would be easier to edit and create codesets if there was more of a... neatness to it.

Feel free to ignore though.

 

[Starscream]

I think I found the culprit of the skid animation glitch...

When using the older spunit merger code (as in the not glitched one in Kupo's codeset) there is also the constants code.

065A9300 00000020
3F666666 3F933333
3F933333 [COLOR="Yellow"]4F000000[/COLOR]
40800000 3FC00000
3F800000 BF266666

That highlighted value was used for the ALR (AKA ALC) in the newest merger code but doesn't seem to be used in this one. Normally the float value for 2 (40000000) should be used but it doesn't seem to make a difference with this code. Changing it seemed to cause the dash cancel to mess up and have the weird skid glitch in it's place while still having the same amount of ALR as 4F000000.

Also the value for lagless ledges in that code seems to be ignored as well. You need to use the separate lagless ledges code with the merger like in Kupo's txt file.

 

[kupo15]

Does anyone else think that the merger/grouped codes should be grouped/merged in a more categorial way? What I mean is having the .txt split up into groups, and having multi-codes fit into a single group instead of having a "Mixed" category.

Here's what my current codeset looks like with codes removed, but code names remaining:

-----Utility-----

-Allow Replays Longer Than Three Minutes
-Unrestricted Pause Camera
-Constants
-Level Freeze/Reverse

-----Ground Movement-----

-No Tripping
-Dash Dancing
-No Autosweetspot Ledges

----- Air Movement-----

-Upwards/Downwards Gravity Modifier
-Triple Jump Fix
-No FastFall on C-stick

-----Offense-----

-P.Trainer Infinite Stamina
-1/2 power stale system
-Hitlag Modifier
-Hitstun

-----Defense-----

-Shield Stun
-Shield Gain Modifier
-Power Shield Modifier

-----Mixed-----

-Aerial Lag Reduction/Lagless Ledges/Dash Cancel/Quicker Start Jumps/Faster Throws
-Short Hop Height/Dash Speed/Fastfall Speed Multiplier

I know it might be a bit OCD, but I think it would be easier to edit and create codesets if there was more of a... neatness to it.

Feel free to ignore though.

My text file is pretty neat I guess I could do better

I think I found the culprit of the skid animation glitch...

When using the older spunit merger code (as in the not glitched one in Kupo's codeset) there is also the constants code.

065A9300 00000020
3F666666 3F933333
3F933333 [COLOR="Yellow"]4F000000[/COLOR]
40800000 3FC00000
3F800000 BF266666

That highlighted value was used for the ALR (AKA ALC) in the newest merger code but doesn't seem to be used in this one. Normally the float value for 2 (40000000) should be used but it doesn't seem to make a difference with this code. Changing it seemed to cause the dash cancel to mess up and have the weird skid glitch in it's place while still having the same amount of ALR as 4F000000.

Also the value for lagless ledges in that code seems to be ignored as well. You need to use the separate lagless ledges code with the merger like in Kupo's txt file.

Funny. I just took away some codes I think and it went away. Or maybe spunit just fixed it I'm not sure. Which version of the merger is this and where is the other code that goes with it? I honestly forget what was wrong with that version of code...

 

[storm92]

So, what code set is the standard at this point? Do we have more Mookie users or is Kupo's the way to go? I know that it's based on personal preference, but generally speaking what is the more popular choice as of now?

I hate getting used to one thing only to find out something else is more accepted (Mupen vs. Project64 crap)

Also, would it be at all possible to come up with some sort of compromise? Having multiple code sets only draws lines in the b+ community, even if it's barely noticable.

I have to get a Brawl+ reference in my sig (or a sig at all )

Thanks again, you champions.

This is true, but if you may have noticed kupo's and Mookie's lists have basically morphed into one; they're super similar compared to how they were a month ago.
Go with kupo's at first, it's more accepted as of now.

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

@Kupo: My point was that I wish the multi-codes were more uniform. That way I could put them in appropriate categories, instead of making a "Mixed" category.

An example would be making a "Quicker Start Jumps/Short Hop Height/Fastfall Speed Multiplier" code so it fits neatly into the "Air Movement", or "Dash Speed/Dash Dance/Dash Cancel" code into the "Ground Movement" group instead of putting it all in "Mixed".

 

[KRSnakey]

This is true, but if you may have noticed kupo's and Mookie's lists have basically morphed into one; they're super similar compared to how they were a month ago.
Go with kupo's at first, it's more accepted as of now.

Thanks storm,

Yeah, they are pretty similar. On a related note:

Kupo, do you think you could neutralize all of the stages that Mookie has (i.e. frozen pictochat)?
The less hostile stages the better, right? Or do you have some sort of reasoning for only freezing WW and PS2? If so, then that's cool.

Your friend,

KRSnakey

 

[goodoldganon]

An example someone brought up somewhere about Pictochat:

Leave Pictochat as a counterpick because some people feel they can use the obstacles to their advantage. When frozen the only thing Pictochat becomes is a Final D without the terrible sides.

 

[kupo15]

@Kupo: My point was that I wish the multi-codes were more uniform. That way I could put them in appropriate categories, instead of making a "Mixed" category.

An example would be making a "Quicker Start Jumps/Short Hop Height/Fastfall Speed Multiplier" code so it fits neatly into the "Air Movement", or "Dash Speed/Dash Dance/Dash Cancel" code into the "Ground Movement" group instead of putting it all in "Mixed".

Ah I see. So just break up the constants code.


On a side note, I brought B+ to the "gamers" club on campus (aka the NoOb club) and it went over pretty well. No one really complained that it was horrible and some didn't even noticed any changes except hitstun and it was faster. One girl said "how come I'm much better?" I'll be bringing it every week and if I can convince them to like it then its a huge step for b+ and it will be a miracle...

Yea basically what goodoldganon said. I only froze the stages that I 100% know will have the best shot at being a neutral. I don't think moving CP stages to Neutral is a good idea and it prob won't happen.

 

[goodoldganon]

On a side note, I brought B+ to the "gamers" club on campus (aka the NoOb club) and it went over pretty well. No one really complained that it was horrible and some didn't even noticed any changes except hitstun and it was faster. One girl said "how come I'm much better?" I'll be bringing it every week and if I can convince them to like it then its a huge step for b+ and it will be a miracle...

That great man! Good to hear! I've had mostly positive reception here on my end too. I still haven't brought it to the gamer club, but the people that were negative about it were the people that played as D3 or Falco. They couldn't adjust to the loss of CGs. I wanted to cry.

 

[kupo15]

That great man! Good to hear! I've had mostly positive reception here on my end too. I still haven't brought it to the gamer club, but the people that were negative about it were the people that played as D3 or Falco. They couldn't adjust to the loss of CGs. I wanted to cry.

lol aww. I can see why the D3s would since he didn't really get much. I really get depressed when I see Foxys thread about his B+ and melee tourney from all the melee fanbase that prematurely trash the game...its really disheartening...melee isn't the only great smash game...

 

[storm92]

Ah I see. So just break up the constants code.


On a side note, I brought B+ to the "gamers" club on campus (aka the NoOb club) and it went over pretty well. No one really complained that it was horrible and some didn't even noticed any changes except hitstun and it was faster. One girl said "how come I'm much better?" I'll be bringing it every week and if I can convince them to like it then its a huge step for b+ and it will be a miracle...

Yea basically what goodoldganon said. I only froze the stages that I 100% know will have the best shot at being a neutral. I don't think moving CP stages to Neutral is a good idea and it prob won't happen.

On the topic of spreading B+, I got my friend who is a part of vB West Coast Smash League bringing kupo's codeset with B+ to every tourney he goes to, and he's getting rave reviews from even hardcore Melee people. SoCal Melee people. Also, he and many others said they're glad we took out the MAD/WD of Brawl haha.

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

If by "constants code" you mean the codes that reference the "DASHDASH FASTFALL" etc code, then yes.

Otherwise, all the Constant values should be grouped into a single lumped code (DASHDASH, FASTFALL, JUMPSTAR, etc).

 

[kupo15]

On the topic of spreading B+, I got my friend who is a part of vB West Coast Smash League bringing kupo's codeset with B+ to every tourney he goes to, and he's getting rave reviews from even hardcore Melee people. SoCal Melee people. Also, he and many others said they're glad we took out the MAD/WD of Brawl haha.

Wow that is awesome! I hope to do that also around here! xD

 

[goodoldganon]

All these positive stories tonight, Imma sleep with a big old smile on my face tonight!

 

[kupo15]

I added another quote bubble with the shared codes mookie and I use. I don't think I missed anything

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

On the topic of spreading B+, I got my friend who is a part of vB West Coast Smash League bringing kupo's codeset with B+ to every tourney he goes to, and he's getting rave reviews from even hardcore Melee people. SoCal Melee people. Also, he and many others said they're glad we took out the MAD/WD of Brawl haha.

im bout to cry its so beautiful

 

[Eggz]

im gonna wavedash

 

[zxeon]

My Wii just died in a power surge. Not the way I thought my Wii would go out. I always thought it would go up in flames in a glorious backfire of system menu hacks. I wonder if I can trick nintendo into fixing it for free? If anyone knows what my next move should be throw me a lifeline.

 

[Starscream]

Funny. I just took away some codes I think and it went away. Or maybe spunit just fixed it I'm not sure. Which version of the merger is this and where is the other code that goes with it? I honestly forget what was wrong with that version of code...

The merger and codes I'm using all came from your codeset in the OP. As soon as I changed the ALR value to what I thought was supposed to be correct I got the skid glitch but the same amount of ALR as before. Changed it back, and everything was fine.

I'm surprised you had the problem at all. I downloaded and ran your codeset earlier today just fine without the skid glitch. I'm glad that your settings are now almost the same as what I've been playing for a while now. The only difference in mine is 0 buffer, .9 SHs, 1.15 dash speed ( I like multiples of 5 lol, it's hardly a difference), and I don't use any of the shield damage mods (not sure of the necessity yet). It's pretty convenient.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

So, does anyone else feel like throws/other moves have more lag than they should? I played today with the 3 frame buffer re-instated, thinking that was the problem, and it turns out that it still feels really gross.

As a side note, I'll be bringing B+ and vB with texture hacks to an NVGA/GameStop joiner tournament. Here's hoping I can draw more people into B+. :D

Maybe I'm not getting all of your idea but that sounds like it would chase away quite a few people if they had to crack open their wiis to be able to accept burned discs. Granted I"m not up to date on the mod scene but last I recall a person would need to buy a $40-$50 chip and be willing to soilder the board. Considering we had a huge arguement about MAD chassing away potential players, having to go through all that seems over kill.

And assuming everyone accepted this, it seems we'd be daming B+ to be nothing more than a sideshow as most of the people the that make up turnnies wouldn't have a modded wii to practice and therefore wouldn't bother even coming. Which then leads to less pros playing due to tiny money pots.

Hey, here's an idea!

Do your research before talkin' like you know what you're saying.

Or at least read the posts in this thread.

You can play back-up games without hardmodding your wii. If you're putting B+ codes in the game, you can play a patched iso. I've softmodded 5 wiis already (not including my own) to play back-ups, and it didn't cost anyone a penny.

 

[Blank Mauser]

im gonna wavedash

Lol...come to FBT6 <_<;

 

[Makkun]

So, does anyone else feel like throws/other moves have more lag than they should? I played today with the 3 frame buffer re-instated, thinking that was the problem, and it turns out that it still feels really gross.

As a side note, I'll be bringing B+ and vB with texture hacks to an NVGA/GameStop joiner tournament. Here's hoping I can draw more people into B+. :D



Hey, here's an idea!

Do your research before talkin' like you know what you're saying.

Or at least read the posts in this thread.

You can play back-up games without hardmodding your wii. If you're putting B+ codes in the game, you can play a patched iso. I've softmodded 5 wiis already (not including my own) to play back-ups, and it didn't cost anyone a penny.

Not to mention you don't need to play burned games in order to play B+.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

The Debug code is awesome, but causes very screwed up replays, unfortunately. I had been hoping that since they're just button recordings, they would just display what you did in real time, but unfortunately that's not the case. The characters onscreen just do completely different things than in the actual match.

 

[maticMan94]

My Wii just died in a power surge. Not the way I thought my Wii would go out. I always thought it would go up in flames in a glorious backfire of system menu hacks. I wonder if I can trick nintendo into fixing it for free? If anyone knows what my next move should be throw me a lifeline.

Dang man that's terrible. Are you sure it's dead? One time my wii wouldn't start after a storm and I thought it caught a surge, but apparently it's got some sort of circuit breaker mechanism built in. All you have to do to reset it is unplug all the cables from the wii for a few minutes and then put em back and it starts.

 

[Sanu]

So, does anyone else feel like throws/other moves have more lag than they should? I played today with the 3 frame buffer re-instated, thinking that was the problem, and it turns out that it still feels really gross.

I find this with some throws, but not moves. Fox's up-air does a lag a bit on landing, but you can't expect all the landing lag to be exactly the same as melee's (this is with auto L-canceling). I do find though that after doing Fox's up throw, there is quite a bit of lag before he can jump... so by the time he can jump, it's too late to follow up because the opponent has already fallen out of hit stun. This may be the same with other characters and their respective throws, I haven't tried playing around enough to notice this...

Then again, this isn't melee. Fox's down throw combos into forward air and then into up-air, so just be creative and try not to over use the laggy moves. *shrugs* Hope they DI poorly so that you can do down throw to up-air as well ;P

---

As for pouring the love of Brawl+ onto others, I'll be bringing my setup to a huge smashfest this weekend. RaynEX, and a bunch of others will be there. I'm going to try to set up an mini-tournament and see how it goes for ****s and giggles. To be honest though, we have the melee air-dodge enabled but I'll be able to change it at any time so everyone can try the "official" ruleset... we'll see how it goes.

 

[kupo15]

im gonna wavedash

Are you going to at least try it before prejudging it? And no, I don't consider Chibos code set way back when a good intro to B+ at all.

So, does anyone else feel like throws/other moves have more lag than they should? I played today with the 3 frame buffer re-instated, thinking that was the problem, and it turns out that it still feels really gross.

Yea, that is why I suggested sped up throws. Maybe instead of speeding up the entire throw, maybe just the end of the throw?

 

[Frogles]

Some throws just have more ending lag than others. Like Fox uthrow and Yoshi dthrow for example. Even after the throw is complete, they gotta wait a little bit before they can move again. Not every throw is like that tho so a universal throw speed increase is a bad idea.

 

[Sanu]

Some throws just have more ending lag than others. Like Fox uthrow and Yoshi dthrow for example. Even after the throw is complete, they gotta wait a little bit before they can move again. Not every throw is like that tho so a universal throw speed increase is a bad idea.

This is what I'm thinking as well. Certain throws are better than others, that's all. Increasing the initial grab animation speed is what should be focused on, and if I'm not mistaken, there's already a code to speed that up. x1.25 grab speeds are actually quite nice.

 

[Archangel]

Main reason's why grabs should be faster to me is for 3-4 player or team matches. I get sick of getting cheapshoted while slamming someone.

 

[Sanu]

^

That happens in Melee too, live with it lol. I guess you guys could get rid of the lag after the throws are performed though (like with Fox), but speeding up the grabs isn't really necessary, they're already as fast as Melee's grabs.

Posted this on Kupo15's wall, but thought I'd post it here for thoughts from the community.

Something I've noticed... When dash dancing in Brawl+, you can't put up your shield. What I mean to say is, you can't put your shield up at all during your initial dashing animation. That lowers the amount of options the player has in my opinion.. do you agree? If someone misses a tech when they hit the ground, most would DD beside them and react accordingly.

Get up attack >>> shield out of DD (not possible in current Brawl+) and shieldgrab

Roll left/rollright >>> DD towards them and grab/punish

Do you see what I mean? It essentially limits all options of the DDing player to shielding (which is mostly ineffective as the failed-tech player realizes this and rolls away) as all the failed-tech player has to do is Get-Up-Attack to avoid being punished. I was hoping to get your opinion on this and was wondering if you could push for this code to be implemented ... etc.

 

[kupo15]

What does everyone think about spotdodges? I think they are too good and keeps the game a little on the defensive side. I think we think all spot dodges should be a set amount of frames and be a tad longer. In melee, was everyones spotdodge the same length?

 

[Dark Sonic]

In melee, was everyones spotdodge the same length?

No. The amount of invincibility and the total length of the spotdodge varied from character to character.

 

[Deleted member]

you can't spotdodge forever, and unlike other defenvise techniques the situation is almost always even for both players when either spotdodges, unless the other did a very slow smash, in which case he deserves to have the disadvantage

 

[Sanu]

What does everyone think about spotdodges? I think they are too good and keeps the game a little on the defensive side. I think we think all spot dodges should be a set amount of frames and be a tad longer. In melee, was everyones spotdodge the same length?

I completely agree, spot dodges in brawl are kind of broken. Increasing their length... how would that help? Then they'd be able to dodge for longer XD. I think work should be done on increasing the duration between spot dodges. As for Melee, everyone had varying spot dodge lengths.

 

[kupo15]

No. The amount of invincibility and the total length of the spotdodge varied from character to character.

Ok so then should we maintain the differences and just globally change the lengths? I think B+ should have an emphasis on offense over defense and I don't think it quite made the switch yet. Some defensive options are still too good imo