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COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda
- Thread starter kupo15
- Start date
Revven
FrankerZ
Stales Moves makes it worse.
Those "crappy levels" are there for fun. It is known that the most awesome money match to do is a Tiny, Curry, Metal, Lightning Falcon ditto on Flat Zone 2
How are we to do this if it doesn't work? >_>
How are we to do this if it doesn't work? >_>
Blank Mauser
Smash Champion
Thats not a TRUE money match.
The most legit money match: Coin Brawl, 8 Minutes
The most legit money match: Coin Brawl, 8 Minutes
CloneHat
Smash Champion
Snake can only get 2-3 hits in my experience with good DI. And have fun with stale utilts.
kupo15
Smash Hero
Hmm, I think you are over exaggerating that by a lot. I don't feel like everyone has lead boots at all and it can't possibly feel like any of the beta's because my ugrav wasn't as bad as that. There are some characters that I need to tweak because they rise a lot slower than they fall. For the consistency of the game and so that hitstun doesn't act stupid, you need to have universal dgrav or make a code that changes the division constants of the characters which the plussery doesn't seem to care about.
I really have no idea why you feel this way. I have heard that Mario for one feels excellent and from my testing of the other floatier characters, they by no means felt like they had lead weights or that you are constantly being pulled down. Fast falling could be set too high "maybe."
Seeing how melee is a more solid game than brawl (hence why we are hacking it) I don't see how this is a bad thing.
And please don't be immature enough to say "go play melee" when I in fact play both >_<
EDIT: I must be doing something right with my code set or else I wouldn't see 46 downloads to my code set for my, what, 5th, 7th? (I lost count) update?
WeirdoZ Inc.
Smash Apprentice
I think it might be an idea to globally raise the gravity to maybe 1.1-1.15 (setting that to the "new" default gravity), then use the individual gravity code to tweak individuals further.
Basically taking the current Plussery individual character gravity/jump power set and then adding a slight global increase on top of that.
Basically taking the current Plussery individual character gravity/jump power set and then adding a slight global increase on top of that.
BEES
Smash Lord
I think gravity is fine. I think increasing fastfall speeds out of a double jump would be beneficial, as well as moving the fastfall window a bit sooner into a jump.
BEES
Smash Lord
Also, come to think of it, rolls feel too slow. If there were some way to speed them up without making them go farther, that might be worth looking at.
I actually hadn't considered this before, but I agree. They're incredibly easy to punish, even on reaction.
XSilvenX
Smash Lord
Rolls were always easy to punish, given your characters are in a position where they can promptly punish. It was the same in Melee. You guys telling me you wanna see people abuse rolling even more in Brawl? I for one think it's paced pretty well. Just slow enough to be able to be punished if abused and fast enough to be viable even at high level play.
BEES
Smash Lord
I definitely remember rolling being faster in Melee, relatively speaking. Currently rolls are the same speed they were in vanilla Brawl, while every other aspect of the game has become faster.
I SHAD all the time. I think it's the best approach right now after aerials, but not the only one you need. Dash-cancels and Dash grabs serve an important purpose too, and more rarely pivot grabs and dash attacks. Rolls? These days I only ever use them for fake-outs or repositioning. They're not an approach.
My reason for wanting to increase their speed is more about increasing the perceived speed of the game. It's about making the fights feel more intense, not necessarily increasing the usefulness of rolls for approaching, although I would argue if that happened to a small extent it would not be a bad thing.
This is pretty simple - you could increase the speed of the roll, but have the same number of vulnerable frames at the beginning and end. It becomes harder to anticipate, and it would be perceived as faster, but just as punishable if caught.
I SHAD all the time. I think it's the best approach right now after aerials, but not the only one you need. Dash-cancels and Dash grabs serve an important purpose too, and more rarely pivot grabs and dash attacks. Rolls? These days I only ever use them for fake-outs or repositioning. They're not an approach.
My reason for wanting to increase their speed is more about increasing the perceived speed of the game. It's about making the fights feel more intense, not necessarily increasing the usefulness of rolls for approaching, although I would argue if that happened to a small extent it would not be a bad thing.
This is pretty simple - you could increase the speed of the roll, but have the same number of vulnerable frames at the beginning and end. It becomes harder to anticipate, and it would be perceived as faster, but just as punishable if caught.
CountKaiser
Smash Lord
My problems with DDD are no imagination. Go try him. Jump up and see how fast he falls, its ridiculous. G&W, too, is also too heavy. With Kirby, its noticeable, but not to the point where I'd think its too much.
While I didn't try every floaty character, judging by how some others felt, I figured the others would be screwed over as well. In that regard, maybe I did overexaggerate, but it does feel like everyone put on some heavy shoes or something.
About the melee thing, he reason why its bad is because if someone wants to play one game while playing another, then it means the other game is
A. Not as good as the first game
B. Not distinct enough from the first game
And B sorta links into A, where if the game doesn't have its own distinct feel, and instead plays very similarly to another game, people will simply play the first game, making the second one useless. See the issue? Why play your codeset when Melee requires less work to play?
Also, why such a drastic change in dgrav? Is that really neccessary? And why does it have to be universal? I noticed it isn't because the fast fallers seem to have a dgrav of 1.2 something. Couldn't you try a more conservative change in dgrav? Frankly, from the plussery set, the characters felt great, imo, and didn't need any massive tweaks.
Starscream
Smash Ace
Camera code also ruins Break the Targets and something is screwing up the graphics on Home Run Contest. I know, not important to competitive play, but just throwing that out there for when or if a fix for this is coming in a future camera code.
GreatFalco
Smash Apprentice
Brawl+ 4.0 USA and PAL seem to have some notable differences. I don't know why, but PAL 4.0 is faster and aerial lags and hitstun feel different ( I only played a few matches on USA 4.0, but I'm sure there are differences).
Yeah most of the time he can only get 3 hits, sometimes only one if the first utilt was made with Falcon in the ground because you can tech and roll away before he pulls out the second one. However, if he catches you with them, 3 utilts do around 50%, which I think is too much for a non-combo character. They should do what one of the previous posters suggested, enabling codes for changing the inherent gravity of some characters because I feel that the overall gravity and stun of the game is right for everyone else.Snake can only get 2-3 hits in my experience with good DI. And have fun with stale utilts.
Magus420
Smash Master
Rolls are pretty much the same as before in total duration. The data for rolls that I have for Melee isn't done separately for both backward and forward, so I'm not sure which one they are.
......Melee ....Brawl
...............Bck/Fwd
------------------------
Bowser .39 .....39/39
CF .....31 .....31/31
DK .....31 .....31/31
Falco ..31 .....31/31
Fox ....31 .....31/31
G&W ....35 .....35/35
Ganon ..31 .....31/31
ICs ....31 .....31/31
Jiggs ..34 .....32/32
Kirby ..31 .....31/31
Link ...37 .....37/37
Luigi ..31 .....31/31
Mario ..31 .....32/32
Marth ..35 .....35/35
Ness ...31 .....31/31
Peach ..31 .....31/31
Pikachu 31 .....31/31
Samus ..44 .....44/44
Sheik ..31 .....31/31
Yoshi ..34 .....37/34
Zelda ..31 .....31/31
......Melee ....Brawl
...............Bck/Fwd
------------------------
Bowser .39 .....39/39
CF .....31 .....31/31
DK .....31 .....31/31
Falco ..31 .....31/31
Fox ....31 .....31/31
G&W ....35 .....35/35
Ganon ..31 .....31/31
ICs ....31 .....31/31
Jiggs ..34 .....32/32
Kirby ..31 .....31/31
Link ...37 .....37/37
Luigi ..31 .....31/31
Mario ..31 .....32/32
Marth ..35 .....35/35
Ness ...31 .....31/31
Peach ..31 .....31/31
Pikachu 31 .....31/31
Samus ..44 .....44/44
Sheik ..31 .....31/31
Yoshi ..34 .....37/34
Zelda ..31 .....31/31
Magus420
Smash Master
Several of the newcomers have faster rolls than the Melee average that are in the 20s, especially on forward rolls. There are also quite a few newcomers that are slower than the Melee average and are in the mid and upper 30s. My point was that they weren't slowed down from Melee.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225510
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225510
I've found some annoying things, one is the tripping bug that triggers after some matches, which makes all characters to trip when touching the ground and won't disappear unless you soft reset the Wii. The other is that Tournament Mode freezes before each fight. I'm using the 4.0 PAL code set.
kupo15
Smash Hero
Did you know, that by increasing ugrav and fixing the jumps you solve this problem? Hmmmm..
Gaw doesn't feel bad and DDD I realize falls fast but he is a big slow character so it only would make sense. I do realize that atm its a little awkward because he rises slower than he falls which I still need to fix. After you play several matches, you realize he doesn't really fall as fast as you thought.
Yes I do think its necessary to have universal gravity for two reasons:
Hitstun
Consistency
When you alter gravity, launch speed does not change and this is what hitstun is based on. Each character has a value assigned to them as too how hitstun is calculated for them. For example, Samus is floaty and light so attacks naturally send her further away. If hitstun was calculated equal for everyone, then samus would be nearly impossible to combo because the hitstun isn't enough for how much she gets sent. So the formula gives her more hitstun to compensate for this. Vise versa with heavy characters, they stay closer so if hitstun was equal, then these characters would get comboed too easily which is why hitsun shaves off a couple frames for them. So what you have is a system that balances hitstun for the characters depending on their weight.
Now what would happen if you decided to give everyone a different gravity value? Well, you would throw this system out of balance because in relation to each other, they are sent away at unintended distances and hitstun does not compensate for this. So you can make floaty characters easier to combo than they should be or heavy characters less easily comboed then they should be or you can make heavies completely screwed by making them even more heavily comboed. When you change their "weight class" so to speak without adjust how the hitstun formula works, it throws everything out of wack.
By using universal dgrav (which is what hitstun uses) the relationship that was established between the characters remains the same thus stays balanced and this is very important.
Also, there is no consistency with attacks because you can have two of the same characters with the same attributes, but act differently when you hit them. If they are the same class but they both have different dgrav, then the consistency of the move is not there in the trajectory and the stun and this is out of wack throughout the entire cast when you mess with different dgrav. This also makes the killing relationship between characters odd as well
leaf, feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
cookieM0Nster
Smash Champion
Yeah, sorry kupo, but mediafire doesn't work! I can't test these out yet...NEWEST CHANGES:
Ganon's dsmash is awesome
Hitlag is 60% from 55% (trust me on this one)
Picto chat is frozen
ALR 50%
If you get a Rocket Ship NoIse that happens occasionally for 3 seconds, I know about it. It is due to the camera codes. If you'd rather not have this noise and lose out on the amazing camera, use this .bin
If you have any specific requests to change certain codes (ie, take off death boundaries code, turn on auto jabs) let me know!!
What is different from the plussery and why this set is here
Being unsatisfied with the plussery's flow and speed of the game and their unwillingness to attend to this concern is what lead me to make this set. I want a faster, more exciting game and several times I have seen other users who share the same concern shot down. Some think this is drastically different from the plussery set and in some ways it is (if you think this will feel the same as the plussery )and it will take several matches to adjust but once you do, I think you will enjoy the faster pace of my set.
***Feedback is also appreciated! I need to know what you are thinking!! I ALWAYS update!!***
PUT .GCT IN THE CODES FOLDER SNAPSHOT LOADER *DOWNLOAD THIS
________________________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________.BIN_______________________________________
PUT IN SDRIVATE/WII/APP/RSBE/al
OFFICIAL .BIN....BIN FOR SNAPSHOTS CODE *DOWNLOAD THIS
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Snapshot directions:1. Download the the .BIN and the SNAPSHOT GCT and put them where it says (if the folder doesn't exist, make one)
2. Start Regular gecko (NOT gecko_brawl)
IN GAME
3. Go into Vault>Albums
4. View the messed up picture in your sd card (there is no confirmation that they loaded)
5. Exit and play
This is NOT formatted for double gct method. If you can make it work, feel free
But please keep in mind its a work in progress. I haven't done everything I wanted with the gravity (ICers recovery is eh until fixed for example)
_______________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________CHANGE LIST________________________________________
Changes:
*=Suggestions added by other users
Stages:
Death boundaries on:
FD
BF
Wario
Corneria
PS2
Luigi's mansion
Yoshi's island
Pictochat
Green Greens
are slightly further out.
Corneria stage is 9% bigger
Yoshi's island Brawl is 10% bigger
Hitbox mods: (That differ from plussery)
Knee is not as nerfed as before*
Wizkick is stronger, sped up, first hit spikes, second is a meteor
Movement changes
Ugrav same as plussery for most part (I really want to change this in the future)
Dgrav is 1.4 universally
Hitstun is .45 (I might lower this more)
Momentum is 100% (Char spec momentum is the same from the plussery)
Ganon momentum is 85%
Dash speed is faster
ALR is 40%
Hitlag is 55%
Removed/changed some frame speedMarios dtilt
Reasoning is because higher gravity makes most frame speed changes unnecessary as well as "No air dodging in tumble code" (slightly)
Lucas dash attack
Tech rolls
MK and Samus alr is 100% (I believe samus' alr was 50% in vbrawl so I kept it instead of putting it at 25%)
Knee is 1 frame easier to hit with*
I do have the tumble codes on and I would ask that you keep it on and try to adjust to it because I feel it makes the game much better. Makes some useless moves a little more useful. If you have any questions about these codes, feel free to let me know so I can explain further.
Thanks for your interest!
kupo15
Smash Hero
yea, mediafire has been acting up lately, here is a temp link
http://rs108l3.rapidshare.com/cgi-bin/upload.cgi?rsuploadid=21855451352416147
http://rs108l3.rapidshare.com/cgi-bin/upload.cgi?rsuploadid=21855451352416147
cookieM0Nster
Smash Champion
sweet, I cannot wait to try this out!
this>brawl+.
this>brawl+.
But it is still Brawl+...just Kupo's take on it.
I'll give it a shot too. Most likely tomorrow though. *downloads*
cookieM0Nster
Smash Champion
meh, this is more "thourogh"
kupo15
Smash Hero
Yep and sweet.But it is still Brawl+...just Kupo's take on it.
I'll give it a shot too. Most likely tomorrow though. *downloads*
I joined file front since mediafire is acting up and I don't like megaupload. Links are updated
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5940247&postcount=121
cookieM0Nster
Smash Champion
kupo, thanx 4 the new link!
BEES
Smash Lord
I think that creates more side effects than simply speeding up double jumps and fast falling from them.
Remember that Brawl+ does not have wavedashing, so rolls have more uses in gameplay. You use them to position more. You use them to get up from the ledge more, and their low speed has an adverse effect on the speed of the game.
Perfect Chaos
Smash Master
Hm, so I was playing Ice Climbers on the 10% bigger Yoshi's Island, and occasionally, when I walk from one side of the stage to the other, either me or the partnering Ice Climber would teleport ahead (literally) a distance a little less than the length of that upper platform. I don't know the exact way to trigger it right now, but I'm quite sure the re-sizing of the stage is the main factor in causing this. I would post a video, but my friend is borrowing the equipment I use to upload it onto my computer.
Edit: Actually, I saw this happen on Pokémon Stadium 2, also, so it's probably not because of the stage re-sizing.
But I'm liking kupo's codeset, especially the changes since 4.0, like some attack hitbox proberties (but I guess hitbox changes are universal, and not just for kupo's). It didn't feel too much different from 4.0, which is nice in a way. The camera during gameplay is indeed slightly better, although the "rocket ship" noise freaked me out when I first heard it (but at least I understand why it was named that LOL).
On a side note, I can't seem to get the Brawl Plus Tweaker program that was linked in kupo's post to produce a working .bin file. My computer says "'sdkey.bin' or 'sdiv.bin' could not be found. Snapshot file was created but not encrypted." And I tried to see if the game can read it, too, but it can't, either. Some help would be greatly appreciated.
Edit: Actually, I saw this happen on Pokémon Stadium 2, also, so it's probably not because of the stage re-sizing.
But I'm liking kupo's codeset, especially the changes since 4.0, like some attack hitbox proberties (but I guess hitbox changes are universal, and not just for kupo's). It didn't feel too much different from 4.0, which is nice in a way. The camera during gameplay is indeed slightly better, although the "rocket ship" noise freaked me out when I first heard it (but at least I understand why it was named that LOL).
On a side note, I can't seem to get the Brawl Plus Tweaker program that was linked in kupo's post to produce a working .bin file. My computer says "'sdkey.bin' or 'sdiv.bin' could not be found. Snapshot file was created but not encrypted." And I tried to see if the game can read it, too, but it can't, either. Some help would be greatly appreciated.
kupo15
Smash Hero
Simply speeding up the jump does nothing via frame mod. If you want to reach or peak faster, you increase ugrav and make your jump force stronger so that you go the same height. Moving the FF window to before apex is stupid. I can't possibly understand what bad side effects a little bit of ugrav will cause.
Awesome glad you like it. But in fact, most character changes I have that were the same as the plussery's have been taken out of the plusserys. I guess its cool that it doesn't stray that far away from the plussery but I always chuckle when I see that because of the difference in dash speed, momentum, gravity and hit stun.
Maybe shortfuse needs to link to the encryption folder? I am not really sure..
cookieM0Nster
Smash Champion
Kupo, plz help me. I really want to play this!
kupo15
Smash Hero
You have to stop renaming files that you download. It must be RSBE01 and al_name (name is anything you want)
And mediafire is finally back up
cookieM0Nster
Smash Champion
Do I change the other RSBE01 in my "codes" folder to another name?
Problem2
Smash Champion
no. You leave it RSBE01.
kupo15
Smash Hero
You replace the old RSBE01 with my RSBE01. Only one gct allowed in the codes folder
Perfect Chaos
Smash Master
Well, I'm a Melee player, so maybe it's the fact that I'm already used to the increased gravity, hit stun, etc., that I was able to adapt to your codeset with ease. LOL
And the Snapshot method to load Brawl+ is pretty convenient, I just noticed. Since I can choose to load either the "official" version, or any other custom version, without having to go to my computer. (Too bad I still can't make my own .bin files at the moment due to the aforementioned problem.) But I wonder what would happen if, let's say, I load kupo's snapshot, then later, without turning of the Wii or anything, load the "official" Brawl+ snapshot. Would ALL of the codes from kupo's deactivate, would both codes try to work as best as they can together (and crash if something conflicts), or what?
slimpyman
Smash Journeyman
picto chat needs to be left alone... that stage is more fun with its regular elements thrown in. i havntplayed the pirate ship, but if the launcher doesnt work, ill be upset ;-)
otherwise, PHEW, FF'in can be deadly as heck
otherwise, PHEW, FF'in can be deadly as heck