Compilation of New Techniques/Discoveries (Updated 3.17.08)

[shanus]

go back to kinder garden : go back to melee

It was more of a question, I didn't really know if crounch cancel was a DI or not. look at my post and I doubted. I never ever tryed to DI with the C stick. My friends said it was possible but didn't add to the stick DI, others said smash DI works (thus Link's bomb). Either way it was kinda useless.

and yes I do think doing the bomb roll with the c stick is easier and prolly makes super rolls happen more often (I once rolled 3/4 pokemon stadium)

and no I'M not a noob, melee was soo bugged : phantom hits, invisible celling makes you crash down (the inverted V)etc.. I hope brawl doesn't have such suprise for us.

double stick DI is NOT useless at all. c-stick + control stick DI is pretty huge and can be a MASSIVE lifesaver on many occasions.... Go read up on the melee forums about that if you have any more questions.... now get this back on topic!

 

[Dark Sonic]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=60218&.

Best thread ever.

And just to clarify phantom hits weren't bugs which is easily shown by Sakurai's update of "Glancing Blows." Also the c-stick can only be used for ASDI in melee: We don't know if that may have been changed in brawl though.

 

[davemg]

isnt the knockback reduction in the air momentum cancel just due to the fact that he did the same attack 3 times. i agree di def exists but a video with 3 refreshed smashes would be better

 

[tsl]

double stick DI is NOT useless at all. c-stick + control stick DI is pretty huge and can be a MASSIVE lifesaver on many occasions.... Go read up on the melee forums about that if you have any more questions.... now get this back on topic!

I agree. And since DI'ing is even more powerful in this game, this technique gains even more merit. I use C-Stick for nearly all aerials now, so that I can DI at the same time. Makes SHFF'ing much easier.

So I don't know if spiking's been mentioned (I'll assume it hasn't because it isn't in the main post.)

The spiking mechanism in this game seems to be uniform for all characters that have spikes. Spiking now occurs only during the beginning of a move that does it; there's no longer a "sex spike" that lasts for a while (like Falco's from Melee.) For example, Toon Link's D-air (down stab) spikes only if you hit the enemy with the tip of the sword right when the move comes out. I've seen this behavior with every spike in the game that I've seen so far. I can confirm that Marth's, Falco's, C-Falcon's (still has weird hitbox), G&W's, and Toon Link's D-airs all spike in this way. The hitboxes may be different for any certain character, but the timing is uniform.

I stress that this is simply an observation. There may be certain characters that have exceptions, but I have not seen any yet. I also suspect that Lucario, Sheik, Ganondorf, and other characters have spikes as well, but it may just be my memory playing tricks on me and I have not confirmed them yet. I will definitely do much more testing to find out which other characters have spikes.

Again, as far as I know so far, all "regular" spikes in this game follow a uniform timing mechanism that determines whether or not the move successfully spikes.

 

[Red Exodus]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=h1VncLplv5A&feature=related

At around 5:00 in this vid MK appears to powershield, maybe I missed something but it definitely looks like a PS to me.

 

[leafgreen386]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=h1VncLplv5A&feature=related

At around 5:00 in this vid MK appears to powershield, maybe I missed something but it definitely looks like a PS to me.

Powershielding was confirmed to be in by dojo itself >_>

It no longer reflects projectiles, but it still blocks the attack with almost no lag.

 

[ShortFuse]

New technique: Canceling ledge jumps

Normally if you use the jump button while hanging on the ledge you jump off of it and it seems as if you cannot do anything until a specific amount of time during the jump. But I've found (with Kirby's Stone) that I could cancel the jump right into my Down Special. I tested it out with other characters and yes, you can perform a Special Attack right out of a Ledge Jump.

This might be intentional to make "Ledge Hopped Attacks" more accessible and less technical, but it seems to only work for Special Attacks. For instance, you can Ledge Jump and cancel right into a Counter with Marth/Ike and it looks like it's a Ledge Hop -> Counter from Melee, done perfectly. Obviously this will work much better for some attacks (Ike's Up Special) than others (Kirby's Stone).

The Original Poster needs to update the front page with all these new techniques before they get lost in the rest of the messages. >_>

This is not true. There is no cancel. When your character releases his/her hand from the edge, you can do any move you want. If you do it too early, you'll have to wait a few frames before you can do it again (at the peak of the jump). You can do anything. The reason why you THINK it's being cancelled is because those special attacks stop any upwards momentum
Kirby's Down+B, fB, up+B
Fox's down+b, fB, up+b
Ike's down+b, up+B

Fox's nB (blaster) doesn't stop your jump. Nor does Ike's fB or nB. A few frames after you press jump you can do what ever you want. There is no cancel. Don't believe me? Put the sandbag right next to the edge and do a sex kick with Fox, Samus, Mario, Luigi or Link. Jump and press A when you a little past the edge. The sandbag will get hit.

All you're seeing is upwards momentum cancel based on the special attacks you're using. The same would happen on a regular jump when standing.

There are the "penalty frames" if you try to attack to early. If you're too early, then you'll have to wait a few frames to do anything. You were always doing it too early and getting penalty frames. But after testing this, I did find the edge jump into nAir pretty useful. I'll be using that with Fox.
Of course there could also not be penalty frames and it's just the few ms it takes for me to press the button again.

 

[shanus]

Not sure how this is done, but at the start of Ike's forward smash, the direction can be changed:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9NMfOcUaFbM

2:05-2:15

 

[aho43]

Posted this in the broom arlready:

I've noticed that you can buffer anything from an airdodge. So if you airdodge, even before you hit the ground, whatever you inputted will come out right away. So you can airdodge immediately into any smash, grab, jab, tilt, or even dash or walk. I'm not sure if this was already known or not. Finally got my own copy of brawl to mess around with.

You can also seem to be able to do buffered attacks from certain aerials. The ones that auto-cancel is what I think it is. I'm not sure if you can still buffer attacks if you hit with the aerial. I've been trying to do it but I'm not sure if I don't have the timing right because of the hitstun or if its just impossible. I was trying this with fox mostly.

Also dash attack cancel grab or boost grab as some people called it from melee is still in. also don't know if this was known or not. Don't feel like sifting through a million threads.

FYI, if you dont know how to do dash attack cancel grab, you just press grab or L/R at the beginning of your dash attack. In melee with some characters with accelerating dash attacks, the momentum from the beginning of the dash attack would carry into their grab. It was most useful for fox and sheik. Haven't tried it with everyone in brawl yet, not sure what potential there is. Fakeouts are possible because the beginning animation of the attack actually comes out. Test it out! test out the airdodge stuff too.

 

[codemonkey85]

Regardless, at the very least it does nothing for DI on its own. Unless it has some magical property where it enhances the Analog Stick's effect on DI, Double-Sticking seems like a hoax.

You did see the videos in my original post, right? You're telling me that you can pull that off without the C-Stick?

Regardless, can anyone tell me if the technique is still in Brawl?

Powershielding was confirmed to be in by dojo itself >_>

It no longer reflects projectiles, but it still blocks the attack with almost no lag.

This has been proven? Powershielding no longer reflects projectiles? Nuts.

 

[Red Exodus]

Powershielding was confirmed to be in by dojo itself >_>

It no longer reflects projectiles, but it still blocks the attack with almost no lag.

The thing is the shield reflected the projectile, unless that is the nature of the projectile but I doubt it.

 

[I.T.P]

Posted this in the broom arlready:



FYI, if you dont know how to do dash attack cancel grab, you just press grab or L/R at the beginning of your dash attack. In melee with some characters with accelerating dash attacks, the momentum from the beginning of the dash attack would carry into their grab. It was most useful for fox and sheik. Haven't tried it with everyone in brawl yet, not sure what potential there is. Fakeouts are possible because the beginning animation of the attack actually comes out. Test it out! test out the airdodge stuff too.

I'm not sure what you mean by dash attack cancel grab, but you can know cancel dashes into shielding and it makes you slide a little while shielding, this is called dashing shield, from this position you can execute a standing grab that will have a moving hitbox, very very usefull, especially for characters whose dashing shield slides a lot and grab range is big, ala DDD and Squirtle.

jump cancel grabs are out if that's what you were reffering to, you're confusing things.

 

[KosukeKGA]

Someone find some things on Ike. PLEASE!

 

[ShortFuse]

Someone find some things on Ike. PLEASE!

I posted this before and Adi didn't add it. It's on the big Ike guide. I found a new trick to it as well.

Reverse Jump Cancelled Hyphen Smash

What it does: While running in one direction, you can do your upSmash in the opposite direction. This is useful for characters like Ike who have different range on the back part of their upSmash
How do it: This is a jump-cancel. If you have Up mapped to the analog stick it's easier since the jump is automatic.
Dash Right, Pull Left, Slide from Left to Hold Up (or jam Up) and Press A
With Tap Jump disabled, you have to do it like this:
Dash Right, Pull Left, Slide from Left to Hold Up, X/Y and then IMMEDIATELY press A (or press X/Y + A at the same time)

That's pretty much it. **** useful for Ike and I found out how to do it without having to map Tap Jump, just yesterday.

 

[codemonkey85]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=h1VncLplv5A&feature=related

At around 5:00 in this vid MK appears to powershield, maybe I missed something but it definitely looks like a PS to me.

Powershielding was confirmed to be in by dojo itself >_>

It no longer reflects projectiles, but it still blocks the attack with almost no lag.

The thing is the shield reflected the projectile, unless that is the nature of the projectile but I doubt it.

According to some guy at GameFAQs, Aura Sphere bounces off of everything, but it definitely seems like MK powershielded it back. Too bad Lucario wasn't hit by it; then we'd know for sure, right?

 

[ShortFuse]

Pit's Shield and fB both reflect projectiles. Maybe there's a limit to how strong a projectile can be but they both reflect Fox's Blaster

 

[Doval]

I'm not sure what you mean by dash attack cancel grab, but you can know cancel dashes into shielding and it makes you slide a little while shielding, this is called dashing shield, from this position you can execute a standing grab that will have a moving hitbox, very very usefull, especially for characters whose dashing shield slides a lot and grab range is big, ala DDD and Squirtle.

jump cancel grabs are out if that's what you were reffering to, you're confusing things.

No, he's referring to canceling the very first frames of a Dash Attack to a grab. It results in something very similar to a jump-cancelled grab (i.e. a standing grab performed while sliding) but for characters with dash attacks that lunged them forward very quickly (Sheik, for example) it could add a bit of range to the grab. It's very easy to see in Melee with Kirby, because if you do the cancel as late as possible you can see a small amount of fire appear behind him from his dash attack.

You did see the videos in my original post, right? You're telling me that you can pull that off without the C-Stick?

I can't do it. Using the C-Stick doesn't make me ASDI no matter which attack it is. Maybe C-Stick DI is version-specific or something? I'm on v1.0 I believe.

More info on the DLX Hit Cancel, yeah, my post was off, it CAN be done without landing the hit. Did it today with Snake. The cancel is pretty early in the Dash Attack's animation. Seems to be completely character-specific; tried with Dedede, Kirby, and Fox, none of them can do it.

 

[Fastest]

Doesn't anyone read anything?

I already told you guys.

DLX cancel only works with - Wario, Falco, Snake. I have brawl. I went through every char on 1x speed and 1/2 speed to confirm. It's really easy to do. You can mash cstick up repeatedly even.

Early Cancel - First few frames of the dash. Useless for Wario/Falco as it's no better than a dash->upsmash. GREAT for snake because he flies across the level with his mortar since his dash has special properties.

Normal Cancel - Can happen if dash is shielded or hits. Wario/Falco: If shielded, the upsmash pushes the opponent away from grab range (unless they have ranged grab). Snake just ends up flying all over the place.

This also works on projectiles, pikmin, and waddle-whatevers from Dedede.

Done.

Also, don't call it DLX Hit Cancel because Dante Link X is a terrible terrible smash player who proclaims himself to be "pro". I'd rather not call it such a terrible name to give him any sort of credit. The new term is:

GATING. IT'S CALLED GATING PEOPLE. GATING.

 

[Doval]

My bad. Didn't read that far back. But, um, don't you mean GATLING?

 

[jdub03]

Lets think of something else. Gatling just sounds bleh. Nobody knows what that is outside of guilty gear fans anyway. I say for now just call it a hit cancel or DA cancel(dash-attack cancel). Gatling just doesnt fit for anything smash bros related.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

about "hyphen smashing"

it's a really really horrible name

as stated by hugs

"That's not hyphen smashing, thats up smashing"

 

[shanus]

stop trying to name things. It doesnt need some flashy name of gatling etc, if it involves cancelling a move it doesnt need crazy names like Hyphen DLX super timeslide cancel. It should involve something that explains what it is i.e. Dash-Attack Cancel etc. Worry more about figuring out the ATs then naming them.

 

[LeeHarris]

It's called "saucing" from now on. I declare every advanced tactic some variation of the word "sauce."

And on top of that, we are officially renaming the game to Super Sauce Bros.

Who's with me?

 

[LeeHarris]

about "hyphen smashing"

it's a really really horrible name

as stated by hugs

"That's not hyphen smashing, thats up smashing"

Remember, it's called "saucing" now. The reason is it looks like you are sliding on some tomato sauce, possibly even some pesto sauce. Clearly this is the logical choice.

 

[Kyuusoku]

I think names of discovers should pertain to what they actually do, like L-Cancelling, Moonwalking, Meteor Cancelling... Not after everyone own name... I dont want to say have to go through 30 different peoples names when Im teaching this game to someone else...

 

[LeeHarris]

I think names of discovers should pertain to what they actually do, like L-Cancelling, Moonwalking, Meteor Cancelling... Not after everyone own name... I dont want to say have to go through 30 different peoples names when Im teaching this game to someone else...

You see, if we follow my solution and name everything some variation of "sauce" then you'll only have to memorize one word and a few suffixes and prefixes. It's like having phone, pda, and MP3 player all in one, except for it's a word and it's called "saucing."

 

[Galeon]

Weird discovery I found: Grabbing doesn't give you your jump back.
Tested it today to make sure. double jumped to the stage a couple times and had someone grab me out of the air. when they threw me off, I couldn't double jump again.

 

[Speedsk8er]

Just so you know, the thread of mine that's in the first post isn't an impressions thread. I hadn't played brawl at the time.

 

[Ichida]

It's called "saucing" from now on. I declare every advanced tactic some variation of the word "sauce."

And on top of that, we are officially renaming the game to Super Sauce Bros.

Who's with me?

Failure sauce.

 

[LeeHarris]

Ok, next step: change the name of users with no sense of humor to "weinersauce."

We're making progress.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

not only are you spamming, but it isn't funny spam, continue if you want infractions and eventual banning.

 

[chaddd]

It's called "saucing" from now on. I declare every advanced tactic some variation of the word "sauce."

And on top of that, we are officially renaming the game to Super Sauce Bros.

Who's with me?

I support this man 100% for president.

 

[shanus]

not only are you spamming, but it isn't funny spam, continue if you want infractions and eventual banning.

ah the first post was funny, the latters, not so much...

btw that post i did before about Ike's forward smash being switchable in direction midway is not that its switchable, but a graphical bug. Sometimes when you quickly change directions and begin a forward smash in one, it displays it the way you were facing before and then as the move comes out goes the way you intended it to.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Weird discovery I found: Grabbing doesn't give you your jump back.
Tested it today to make sure. double jumped to the stage a couple times and had someone grab me out of the air. when they threw me off, I couldn't double jump again.

this could be usefull, judge weither they are gona sweet spot by thier location then if they are, ledge hog, if not grab and throw heh not a bad system

 

[Damax]

I know it must not be alot but, yesterday I played again for 6 hours and if you charge the down B (you actually have to smash the b button while holding down) with sonic, he can spindash about as fast than he run, or maybe faster

You can also STALL Sonic and ZERO suit samus's down air just as with Toon Link, sorry I have no vids proof but someone try it too!

 

[PozerWolf]

How about we just don't such silly names.

Fox Trot? WTF its a **** dash brake!


Seriously tho, just don't name anything you find at this point =/

 

[Taalcon]

I'm not sure if people have already discussed this, but I have a question. Can all characters cancel their dash attack with an upsmash? Starting at :33 in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHtc80Q5hIA Snake is canceling his dash attack with an up-smash. Would this be considered DLX hit-canceling, or something else?

 

[LeeHarris]

I'm not sure if people have already discussed this, but I have a question. Can all characters cancel their dash attack with an upsmash? Starting at :33 in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHtc80Q5hIA Snake is canceling his dash attack with an up-smash. Would this be considered DLX hit-canceling, or something else?

Only Snake, Falco, and I believe Wario can do that. I have tried with nearly every character (and so have others) and it doesn't work.

 

[leafgreen386]

Ok I'm sick of hearing that subpar player's name every time this technique is brought up. The DLX-Hit Cancel will now be known as the Dash Attack Canceled Usmash, or DACU for short.

 

[jdub03]

^ sounds good to me.